KotW #9 Pregame Thread

[Neal]

With Shaka proving that Africa, despite its crappy terrain, can support thriving culture and blossom into the envy of the world, it's time for us to look into the future.

I've got some controversial ideas for King of the World #9, and so I figured I'd see how much dissent I would stir up before I went ahead and started it up. I think it would be a lot of fun, and it would be a temporary experiment, so anyone not interested would only have one game to sit out of. Here's the ideas:

1) I want to play as Rome. Yes, yes, they're three-cheese pizza with extra mozzarella, but I feel like we're going to need to cover all the bases eventually, and I think now's the time to do it.

2) I want to, with this game at least, return to the Earth18 map. All sorts of weirdness is bound to happen in this game, and I'd like to be a little more familiar with the baseline than I am with the 34 Civs map. I'm even considering backsliding to Monarch difficulty.

3) This is the big one. I want to run this as a Divine Intervention game, with a twist. I'd like to have seven regular Gods, each tied to one of the seven faiths in the game. These Gods would cultivate "their flocks," granting them aid and defending them from their enemies. Within reason, of course.

I feel that tying the Gods to the game's faiths would grant a little more order and stability than allowing a free-for-all of changes after every single round. This would necessitate the selection of seven "mods" willing to check in and play along regularly (though those tied to Islam and Taoism can obviously come in late).

That said, I know that DI games aren't considered "real" games, so I'm going to put it to a vote. What're your thoughts?

 

[UWHabs]

I haven't been along for long on these forums, but DI games are fun so far.

 

[BakingTheArt]

I've got no problem with it. I've been wanting someone to do a DI game on the Earth map, anyway, and Rome isn't the most challenging on the map, so I figure this is the way to get a least a modest challenge in it.

That said, dibs on Judaism.

 

[scsabres2011]

I'm very much in support of this. The first DI game I ever followed was Mad's, and that seemed too hectic to me. I may be in the minority but I find your idea simply more palatable. I do have one suggestion though: Perhaps there should be a "Mother Earth" as well. I don't know if you would consider that to be redundant, but I think that at least in the early game where much of Siberia, Africa, and the Americas is unsettled/barb-dominated this would be a good equalizer for the religious gods.

 

[Tracnar]

Ah, sounds like fun..time to go post in the DI Bullpen and get the experianced gods to give you a run for your money

just a tip tho, from the DI games, it usually ends up being easier for the player due to the gods presence, it does depend on who you pick to be the gods, if anyone from the DI stories comes over and is interested, you might want to put them on an opposing team from you, i have nothing but respect for my fellow Divine Intervention gods and it would be good to have an experienced god or two in the world.

 

[Sian]

i'm calling Confusism

...

might be an idea to shuffle the deck a bit and do pick choose religions ... then its not that sure which religion pops next

 

[Harv]

3) This is the big one. I want to run this as a Divine Intervention game, with a twist. I'd like to have seven regular Gods, each tied to one of the seven faiths in the game. These Gods would cultivate "their flocks," granting them aid and defending them from their enemies. Within reason, of course.

I feel that tying the Gods to the game's faiths would grant a little more order and stability than allowing a free-for-all of changes after every single round. This would necessitate the selection of seven "mods" willing to check in and play along regularly (though those tied to Islam and Taoism can obviously come in late).

That said, I know that DI games aren't considered "real" games, so I'm going to put it to a vote. What're your thoughts?

Noob question: What is a DI game?

 

[BakingTheArt]

Divine Intervention. Each round, someone takes the save and edits it in WB.

 

[Nictel]

Sounds interesting, count me in!

I agree to setting the game to pick religion, it's fairer and gives more of a surprise to who is up next.

 

[nanomage]

Wow, i't going to be the funniest game ever)
Seven Gods at their throats on 18 Earth map. Sounds so great that i almost can't believe it!
I would be forever gratefull is i might be Shiva (and triply happy if it will by Monty who finds way to meeeee.) All in all, i admire your great idea and modestly ask to let me in.

 

[Ormur]

A Monarch game on Earth 18 civ map needs somethin pretty drastic for it to be interesting but this just might do it. Having one god with you and presumably six against you might be enough to make it a challenge. Although sometimes those interventions tend to go out of hand.

It would also be interesting to see if the gods don't simply spread their religion as far as they can to gain more influence. Is there something stopping the god of taoism to spread taoism to every city in the world through the World Builder once it's founded?

 

[Sian]

well ... not really ... short of respecting each other,

if any spread only internal in those countries which is allready having said religion as state religion

 

[Nictel]

Using some of the normal DI rules seems like a good idea to me,

The Eleven Commandments of Deityhood as formulated by TheForestAuro, edited by me for KotW:

I.Thou shalt announce your intentions.
--(Be sure to "got it" so we don't run into continuim errors. We reserve the right to ignore not announced updates)

II. Thou shalt not Intervene if you were the last deity to intervene, and thou shalt only intervene once per waking
--(You may only intervene once per my update, and you must wait for another God to intervene before intervening again.)

III. Thou shalt not reveal the secrets of knowledge or the heavens to mortals.
--(No units or techs should be revealed to any civilization if they are not in the current or previous era of the player)

IV. Thou shalt not use your powers for cataclysmic destruction
--(Remember, less is more. Be subtle. It is far more interesting for everyone if you make subtle, interesting changes like forming a choke with mountains than if you just tear giant swathes of ice through my cities. I reserve the right to reject saves I think are unnecessarily apocalyptic.)

V. Thou shalt reveal yourself to the mortal with grace.
--(Everyone loves a good story, and if you decide to contribute to it, be creative!)

VI. Thou shalt not be vindictive, and thou shalt not halt progress.
--(You are not allowed to strip techs away from me. Anything I research is mine permanently. You are also not allowed to remove any named unit, for any reason.)

VII. Thou shalt not be unnecessarily nice to the puny mortal.
--(I do not need a stack of thirty Level 9 Praetorians to win my fights. You do not need to fill my BFC with flood-plain grassland goldmine hills next to rivers. The only exception to this is if you genuinely make me work my ass off to get it, and even then it not ought to be as good as the dream city outlined above.)

VIII. Thou shalt not misuse your godly powers for overly enrichment of thy self.
--(Don't just spread your own religion to every city and remove all other religions. Try small changes, it makes for a more interesting game.)

IX. Thou shalt not war with the other gods. Much.
--(Obviously there's going to be some strife between those who would support the main player's Quest, and those who would seek to oppose him. Having said that, Gods are not allowed to reverse the effects of an intervention without waiting for the update after the effects have been felt.)

X. Thou shalt obey the natural order of things, and of time, and of destiny.
--(There is a storyline going on here. Do try and fit in. Do not take great lengths to completely detract from it. Be smart.)

XI. Thou shalt not abuse your architectural omniscient nature.
--(Don't add wonders that don't already exist.)

FAQ
Q: Another God has already edited the save this turn. Can I do it too?
A: Yes, but you may not undo their changes. Take their save and edit it. Also, you may only edit once per turn.

Q: I have this cool idea that only slightly violates your rules, but it's really cool!
A: Just keep in mind I have the ability to reject any save I deem over-the-top.

 

[nanomage]

i guess that DI rules and simply voice of reasons would stop any god from doing anything overpowered.
I would suggest that no god should have any power to expand his zone of influene, which is limited by borders of cities where his religion is present, and LoS of units belonging to countries with his State religion. The expansion of god's zones of influence would hence be only conducted naturally or by missionaries.
I would advise any god, including myself, if i'm let in, to be extremely hesitant before doing anything outside his zone of influence (if not prohibiting such action completely)
I would also advise that gods only start acting when the corresponding religion is founded, with the exception of directing some civ's tech path to the technology needed to found this religion.
And still there is a problem if one civ founds different religions.

 

[Fetch]

Neal, I'll read (and be a god?) either way, but think about what you're trying to accomplish with your KOTW series. You're trying to show how each civ can win on the Earth maps. This doesn't accomplish that. We all know Julius can win. If you want to still play with Julius, I would consider moving up a level and making the only god the RNG. However, that said, if you want to have a 'break in the action' this would be the civ to uses. Be sure to mod South America like you did 2 games ago.

 

[Outshined]

Eh, I'm not a huge fan of DI games, but it could be a fun change of pace.

 

[Kev]

Not a huge fan either, but it's your series and watching is free so the call is ultimately yours.

I wasn't a fan of Madscientist doing a DI version in his series either as I thought it was disjointed and the true flavor of what made it popular was not present. In essence, it seemed to me that the game was purely decided by the 'gods'. When things went well, they tended to be very harsh and it became untenable. Then, they were very kind and the game became easy again. I felt the player was almost along for the ride as it were.

I also felt it interfered with the flow as there had to be extra time in between turns to have the requisite people mess with the map and do correct saves and such.

Perhaps with your stipulations it will be different.

 

[Jaaboo]

My only request is that the gods have a clear plan that we can follow from start to finish. The problem with the Paranoid Zara game is that at times it just got too hard to follow, it felt like reading 6 different games with little continuity. It doesn't make for as good of a story, and Neal's strength in these games is just that, telling a great story along with his game.

That being said, I have a few suggestions (though I don't think I have the time and/or knowledge to be a god) for our aspiring deities.

* The god that happens to be an enemy of Europe should heed that Europe's strength is the ridiculously good land. Playing as Julius is so easy because you have the early easy commerce to get to IW fast, food to whip and great production even at size 4. Once you take out the Spanish, French and Germans, the game is already won due to Madrid's holy city, Berlin's cottages and Paris' status as an top tier wonder pump. If Madrid is someone else's holy city you will want to consider crippling it and/or Paris.

* "All Cities on this Continent". Nuff said?

* Prats need iron. Nuff said.

 

[Neal]

re: Rome- Rome is such an easymode on this map that I figure a straightforward game would be dull for all involved. "Oh, look. Neal took over all of Europe by 1000 B.C. Now the rest of the game is an absolute cakewalk." If you want to see how Rome can dominate a traditional game on Earth18, I encourage you all to give it a shot. It's great stress relief. Maybe I'll run a "clean" exhibition up to the point at which Europe is taken and the game is won, just for the educational value. The reason I'm considering (just considering, mind you) a step down to Monarch is that, once the game gets rolling, I'm going to have at least six deities against me, with (at most) one in my corner. And, given that I'll be playing Caesar, yes, I realize how reliant I am on that lone, vulnerable source of Iron.

re: Choose religions- I am, at the moment, against the idea. Again, I'm interested in keeping the game fairly orderly, and I'd like the God of, say, Islam to be able to know going in that he'll be showing up late in the game and plan accordingly. Whereas Buddhism and Hinduism need to know that they'll need to contribute early and often. I'm also thinking that the earlier religions should take the long view, making subtle changes step-by-step through the rounds, while the later ones can be a little bit more "flashy." But, then, that's the province of the Gods.

re: Disjointedness- That's what I'm hoping to quell with my "seven gods" idea. I agree that, while mad's game was great fun early on, it kind of devolved once we had 15 people randomly throwing in contradictory changes each and every round. I would also ask that the "quests" be kept to a minimum, no more than one per god at the most. And if your religion is confined to the Americas, by all means, make your changes over there, but if I can't see you, I can't hear you. And, yes, nanomage's ideas on "zones of control" echo my thoughts exactly. And indiscriminately spreading your religion all over the map would be, in my opinion, foul play.

re: South America changes, etc.- I'm going into the map absolute stock. I would imagine, though, that any self-respecting God of the Incas would grant them access to the lush jungles of South America. And it would be trivial for the God of the Spaniards to sink a mountain or two to make Madrid a sea port. No?

 

[Soirana]

re: Rome- Rome is such an easymode on this map that I figure a straightforward game would be dull for all involved. "Oh, look. Neal took over all of Europe by 1000 B.C. Now the rest of the game is an absolute cakewalk." If you want to see how Rome can dominate a traditional game on Earth18, I encourage you all to give it a shot. It's great stress relief.

Not if any of early gods edits out iron from Rome's starting cross.

By the way are any slots still available?