[LP] Leader Pass: Great Commanders - 12/14 Developer Livestream Discussion

Holding my hopes for Isabella in the last Leaderpack, but I don't think we will have much surprises in the middle ones (especifically for leaders). Altough we had a "surprise" in this Livestream, that was the bug fix plan, and we might even be open for more along the way: yep they said they were not able to touch much code for the packs but come on, who believes they will be bringing in Ludwig II and NOT bringing in Neuscwhanstein? ( :p probably not, but one can hope).

I was hoping for new wonders, and I agree that Ludwig doesn't make sense without Neuschwanstein, but the devs explicitly said we wouldn't be getting new wonders "or anything like that."
 
Did they say anything about taking the Janissary away from Suleiman? Just feels wrong to play Ottomans without their iconic unit. If it was a leader that made some sense to take it away from like a leader that represents early Ottomans before Jans (In which case I'd have liked to see a horse archer/archer UU instead) it would be more agreeable.

It would have been nice to see some leaders that have their own UU's like Tokugawa maybe getting a gunpowder samurai/ashigaru but instead it seems they are just losing UU's.

I hope Civ VII doesnt lock UU's behind a leader unless they specifically only make sense with a certain leader? I'm trying to think of examples, maybe French Old Guard being exclusive to Napoleon.
 
Did they say anything about taking the Janissary away from Suleiman? Just feels wrong to play Ottomans without their iconic unit. If it was a leader that made some sense to take it away from like a leader that represents early Ottomans before Jans (In which case I'd have liked to see a horse archer/archer UU instead) it would be more agreeable.

It would have been nice to see some leaders that have their own UU's like Tokugawa maybe getting a gunpowder samurai/ashigaru but instead it seems they are just losing UU's.

I hope Civ VII doesnt lock UU's behind a leader unless they specifically only make sense with a certain leader? I'm trying to think of examples, maybe French Old Guard being exclusive to Napoleon.
The Janissary is specifically part of the original Suleiman Leader Ability, along with Ibrahim. It stays with that Ability.

When the alt-persona of Teddy Roosevelt was created, the Rough Rider unit went with Rough Rider Teddy. I would expect all Leader Unique Units/Buildings/Improvements to be exclusive to the Leader Ability they were introduced with. Also, I don't expect any new leaders or personas to have new Unique Units/Buildings/Improvements since it appears that this whole pack was put together as quickly and cheaply as possible.
 
I’m sure there’ll be a mod to give the Muhteşem his janissaries back.

This will also affect Harald’s longships and Victoria’s redcoats, the latter of which also feels especially wrong.
I'm not sure why. The red coats were first introduced to England's infantry in the mid-1600s for the parliamentarian forces' New Model Army in the English Civil War. They continued to be used on and off for the next three centuries. They were actually discontinued late in Victoria's reign. As an American I associate them most with George III, not Victoria. As a history buff I associate them with Oliver Cromwell.
 
Yay! Got the new update and of course it means that the game is unplayable again. But this time it's not failing to launch, but just unable to create a game. I expect there'll be something like this for every Leader Pass update.
 
I'm not sure why. The red coats were first introduced to England's infantry in the mid-1600s for the parliamentarian forces' New Model Army in the English Civil War. They continued to be used on and off for the next three centuries. They were actually discontinued late in Victoria's reign. As an American I associate them most with George III, not Victoria. As a history buff I associate them with Oliver Cromwell.
Sure, the peak “Redcoat” era is the American Revolution, but while the red coats were phased out in the 1880s, I’d argue red-coated British infantry are the iconic foot soldiers of the Victorian era as much as earlier times. Think Michael Caine in Zulu.

And nobody would call Cromwell’s troops Redcoats - those are Roundheads! :p
 
Yay! Got the new update and of course it means that the game is unplayable again. But this time it's not failing to launch, but just unable to create a game. I expect there'll be something like this for every Leader Pass update.
What mods are you playing (if any).

My end has been smooth.
 
The Janissary is specifically part of the original Suleiman Leader Ability, along with Ibrahim. It stays with that Ability.

When the alt-persona of Teddy Roosevelt was created, the Rough Rider unit went with Rough Rider Teddy. I would expect all Leader Unique Units/Buildings/Improvements to be exclusive to the Leader Ability they were introduced with. Also, I don't expect any new leaders or personas to have new Unique Units/Buildings/Improvements since it appears that this whole pack was put together as quickly and cheaply as possible.
I understand the mechanics of why I just think its not a good reason.

Its not like they had no way of giving the Jan to the alt version too. They could swap the Corsair and Jan so the new Suleiman has access to the Jan but not the Corsair. The Jannissary really should have been the Ottoman UU in the same way the Redcoat should have been the English UU. Naval units especially raiders are always going to be niche to some degree but a core melee land unit will always have a use and both are far more representative and iconic to their respective civs.

They went to the effort of making brand new 3d animated leaders which I believe they have said is the most expensive part of making a civ? (that or the music I'd imagine) a unique unit is probably peanuts in comparison.
 
Sure, the peak “Redcoat” era is the American Revolution, but while the red coats were phased out in the 1880s, I’d argue red-coated British infantry are the iconic foot soldiers of the Victorian era as much as earlier times. Think Michael Caine in Zulu.

And nobody would call Cromwell’s troops Redcoats - those are Roundheads! :p
Ahem. The red coat was officially adopted as the uniform color for the army by the English Parliament in the New Model Army Ordinance of 1645: it was the official coat color throughout Cromwell's tenure as commander of the New Model Army in the Civil War and as Lord Protector afterwards. The red coat was worn by most British infantry officially until 1901, when it was replaced by khaki for field uniforms. It was last worn into battle in 1885 (so, 6 years after the Battle of Roarke's Drift of the Zulu movie) but was issued as a dress uniform for most regimental bands and ceremonial officer's dress uniforms - and of course, to this day it is worn by the Guards regiments for ceremonies.

So it was, in fact, the official British Army uniform throughout Victoria's reign, although the uniforms shown on the unit graphics are pre-Victorian, mostly from the 18th century and Napoleonic Wars before 1816.

And for the Civ VII speculation, just a note:

ALL regular Civ games have been originally released in September or October since Sid Meier's original Civilization in 1991, except Civ II, which came out in February 1996. Therefore, I suspect Ed's comment simply means that after March 2023 everybody at Firaxis can be put to work on Civ VII, but the earliest I would expect release would be October 2023. Waiting until September/October 2024 would almost require that they put out something Non-Civ in between to avoid an eighteen-month drought of no major releases from Firaxis, which is over a fiscal year with no new revenue stream and a hard sell to investors.
They could try updating BE, but frankly, I think that is like whipping a dead horse - it still ain't going to move no matter how big a whip you use.
 
Ahem. The red coat was officially adopted as the uniform color for the army by the English Parliament in the New Model Army Ordinance of 1645: it was the official coat color throughout Cromwell's tenure as commander of the New Model Army in the Civil War and as Lord Protector afterwards. The red coat was worn by most British infantry officially until 1901, when it was replaced by khaki for field uniforms. It was last worn into battle in 1885 (so, 6 years after the Battle of Roarke's Drift of the Zulu movie) but was issued as a dress uniform for most regimental bands and ceremonial officer's dress uniforms - and of course, to this day it is worn by the Guards regiments for ceremonies.

So it was, in fact, the official British Army uniform throughout Victoria's reign, although the uniforms shown on the unit graphics are pre-Victorian, mostly from the 18th century and Napoleonic Wars before 1816.

And for the Civ VII speculation, just a note:

ALL regular Civ games have been originally released in September or October since Sid Meier's original Civilization in 1991, except Civ II, which came out in February 1996. Therefore, I suspect Ed's comment simply means that after March 2023 everybody at Firaxis can be put to work on Civ VII, but the earliest I would expect release would be October 2023. Waiting until September/October 2024 would almost require that they put out something Non-Civ in between to avoid an eighteen-month drought of no major releases from Firaxis, which is over a fiscal year with no new revenue stream and a hard sell to investors.
They could try updating BE, but frankly, I think that is like whipping a dead horse - it still ain't going to move no matter how big a whip you use.
I figure they probably have an expansion or season pass for Midnight Suns planned for the post-Leader Passs gap. That will hold over the revenue stream until Civ 7.
 
Ahem. The red coat was officially adopted as the uniform color for the army by the English Parliament in the New Model Army Ordinance of 1645: it was the official coat color throughout Cromwell's tenure as commander of the New Model Army in the Civil War and as Lord Protector afterwards. The red coat was worn by most British infantry officially until 1901, when it was replaced by khaki for field uniforms. It was last worn into battle in 1885 (so, 6 years after the Battle of Roarke's Drift of the Zulu movie) but was issued as a dress uniform for most regimental bands and ceremonial officer's dress uniforms - and of course, to this day it is worn by the Guards regiments for ceremonies.

So it was, in fact, the official British Army uniform throughout Victoria's reign, although the uniforms shown on the unit graphics are pre-Victorian, mostly from the 18th century and Napoleonic Wars before 1816.

And for the Civ VII speculation, just a note:

ALL regular Civ games have been originally released in September or October since Sid Meier's original Civilization in 1991, except Civ II, which came out in February 1996. Therefore, I suspect Ed's comment simply means that after March 2023 everybody at Firaxis can be put to work on Civ VII, but the earliest I would expect release would be October 2023. Waiting until September/October 2024 would almost require that they put out something Non-Civ in between to avoid an eighteen-month drought of no major releases from Firaxis, which is over a fiscal year with no new revenue stream and a hard sell to investors.
They could try updating BE, but frankly, I think that is like whipping a dead horse - it still ain't going to move no matter how big a whip you use.
What was the time length between the last patch of 4 and 5 and the annoucement of the next subsequent game.

Though it would be nice to actually get an official annoucement.
 
What was the time length between the last patch of 4 and 5 and the annoucement of the next subsequent game.

Though it would be nice to actually get an official annoucement.
The original had no official 'patches', and the patches for II were composed of material from trhe gaming community, so not 'in house'.
Between the last Expansion Pack (Conquests) of Civ III and the release of Civ IV was 23 months.
From Beyond the Sword to the release of Civ V was 38 months.
From Brave New World to the release of Civ VI was 42 months.
The average for all three would be 34.3 months

Then it depends on what you count Civ VI from.
The last Expansion Pack was Gathering Storm in February 2019 - 46 months ago
New Frontier Pass, a 'Season Pass' the size of an Expansion Pack, came out May 2020 - 31 months ago.
So, a Civ VII release in Sep - Oct 2023 would be 40 - 41 months after NFP, or about the same time as the Civ V - Civ VI interval.
But figure in the delay from the Pandemic, and all bets are off. It could easily be delayed until the following spring, or all the way to Sep - Oct 2024 - which would be up to 53 months since NFP. I personally think that's too long, but I don't know what the internal conditions are at Firaxis - it might be all they can manage to get a new Civ game out by then, plus Midnight Suns and its follow-ons.
 
The original had no official 'patches', and the patches for II were composed of material from trhe gaming community, so not 'in house'.
Between the last Expansion Pack (Conquests) of Civ III and the release of Civ IV was 23 months.
From Beyond the Sword to the release of Civ V was 38 months.
From Brave New World to the release of Civ VI was 42 months.
The average for all three would be 34.3 months

Then it depends on what you count Civ VI from.
The last Expansion Pack was Gathering Storm in February 2019 - 46 months ago
New Frontier Pass, a 'Season Pass' the size of an Expansion Pack, came out May 2020 - 31 months ago.
So, a Civ VII release in Sep - Oct 2023 would be 40 - 41 months after NFP, or about the same time as the Civ V - Civ VI interval.
But figure in the delay from the Pandemic, and all bets are off. It could easily be delayed until the following spring, or all the way to Sep - Oct 2024 - which would be up to 53 months since NFP. I personally think that's too long, but I don't know what the internal conditions are at Firaxis - it might be all they can manage to get a new Civ game out by then, plus Midnight Suns and its follow-ons.
I was asking for the patches, like the 3.19 that was released a while after BtS, rather than major content releases.

Though I think regardless, there's a high chance that Civ 6/7 will break the mold anyway.
 
I was asking for the patches, like the 3.19 that was released a while after BtS, rather than major content releases.

Though I think regardless, there's a high chance that Civ 6/7 will break the mold anyway.
Sorry, my information doesn't go into that much detail. Patches, I would think, would be a bad reference for timing of anything, since they are required/requested by specific bugs and problems in the previous release. Whether or not they would be required in the future is, therefore, pretty random: you can be sure some kind of patching will be required (nature of the business!) but not how much, how critical and how fast it will be required. DLCs/Game Expansions, on the other hand, are presumably planned in advance and therefore a better indication of the overall planning and production and development cycles.

Although, as you and I both mention, the Real World events of the past several years are quite likely to have made all the original planning/development cycles irrelevant.
 
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