[LP] Civilization VI: Leader Pass - 11/17 Developer Livestream Discussion

bbbt

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Wouldn't worry too much about a patch.

Behold the right column "Last Update":

View attachment 645380
(It might be just script changes, but I doubt it. Will it disappoint somewhat? Probably,)

Babylon Pack getting an update? Uh-oh, is Hammurabi getting hit with the nerf bat?
 
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Eagle Pursuit

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Babylon Pack getting an update? Uh-oh, is Hammurabi getting hit with the nerf bat?
Don't trust the update info on the DLC page. That's for the structure of the DLC in the Steam system. Actual DLC content changes can be observed in the qa branch change histories. If it lists a depot for the DLC in the changelog, it means something in that DLC is being tested for a patch.
 

pokiehl

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Don't trust the update info on the DLC page. That's for the structure of the DLC in the Steam system. Actual DLC content changes can be observed in the qa branch change histories. If it lists a depot for the DLC in the changelog, it means something in that DLC is being tested for a patch.
In other words, you’re saying there’s no indication either way of bug fixes and whatnot because those would just be included in the qa branch of the upcoming dlc depot? Do I understand that right?
 
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Eagle Pursuit

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In other words, you’re saying there’s no indication either way of bug fixes and whatnot because those would just be included in the qa branch of the upcoming dlc depot? Do I understand that right?
Sort of.

If you click the history tab and scroll to the most recent 2kqa_a branch changelog, you can hover over the depot numbers to see what has been altered. Madrid is the vanilla files, for instance.

Looking at it, the last qa branch shows all the existing DLC being changed, which tells you that something they are qa testing has affected something in the DLCs.
 

SammyKhalifa

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Sort of.

If you click the history tab and scroll to the most recent 2kqa_a branch changelog, you can hover over the depot numbers to see what has been altered. Madrid is the vanilla files, for instance.

Looking at it, the last qa branch shows all the existing DLC being changed, which tells you that something they are qa testing has affected something in the DLCs.
"BigHands" patch
 
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Curse the evil Firaxis for giving us 19 new leaders for free!
(To Boris Gudenof's post. Are people spoiled?)
No complaints about 19 free Leaders, but it reminds me too much of Ambrose Bierce's great line:

"Everything superficial works, the only remaining problems are basic and fundamental."

No number of free Leaders, abilities, Uniques make up for broken game play and AI, bad cartoonish graphics, mediocre-looking maps, and a last half of the game that, no matter what victory you are pursuing, is about as exciting as watching an iron nail rust in the desert. Fix the game, or at least some part of it, then give us the Freebies as icing on the cake. Don't expect me to be satisfied with a thin layer of stucco over a wall of dung bricks. It still stinks.

If I'm spoiled, it's from comparing Civ VI with Anno 1800, Farthest Frontier, and even parts of Humankind. All those games have problems, too, but they're still easier to look at and more fun to play even when they frustrate me (Farthest Frontier is still 'early access' so as near as I can tell, it's Supposed to frustrate me, and it is succeeding admirably at that!)
 

bbbt

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If I'm spoiled, it's from comparing Civ VI with Anno 1800, Farthest Frontier, and even parts of Humankind. All those games have problems, too, but they're still easier to look at and more fun to play even when they frustrate me (Farthest Frontier is still 'early access' so as near as I can tell, it's Supposed to frustrate me, and it is succeeding admirably at that!)

Isn't Anno (and Farthest Frontier from the look of it) more akin to Caesar or the Patrician/Port Royale style of games? I'd love those games, and I'd love if Civ added some of the more resource management/trading features of those games (or just a new version of Caesar frankly), but those are pretty different games and pretty different genres (just similarly historical themed), so that seems like a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.

Humankind has completely failed to engage me at all, but I'm enjoying Old World.
 
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Isn't Anno (and Farthest Frontier from the look of it) more akin to Caesar or the Patrician/Port Royale style of games? I'd love those games, and I'd love if Civ added some of the more resource management/trading features of those games (or just a new version of Caesar frankly), but those are pretty different games and pretty different genres (just similarly historical themed), so that seems like a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.

Humankind has completely failed to engage me at all, but I'm enjoying Old World.
Now, this comes under the "to each his own" heading: I've never played 4X games exclusively, and did and do thoroughly enjoy Caesars II, III and IV and the Port Royale series, and while both Farthest and Anno are primarily city-building production games, they also have elements of eXploiting, eXploring, and eXterminating (or at least, avoiding eXtermination) so 3 out of 4 ain't bad.
I find Humankind an exercise in fascination and frustration, because it 'coulda been great, but it isn't. I played about 50 hours of Old World before I realized that at no time during the 50 hours was I having any fun at all, and haven't opened it in months. As soon as one of the several games I have wishlisted comes out, I'll probably uninstall it. To me it is a collection of interesting game design concepts that were required because the basic design and concept of the game was so poorly implemented, but that's just me the historian: lots of people like it, and more power to them.
 

Pfeffersack

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Curse the evil Firaxis for giving us 19 new leaders for free!
(To Boris Gudenof's post. Are people spoiled?)
As I wrote in another thread - I don't want to be ungrateful for 18 leaders (Julius Caesar requires account linking), for which I will not even have to pay. So I have no problems to say "thanks". However, a part of the truth is also that it is gift for a game I have stopped playing a while ago. Yes, called me spoiled - I tasted Old World and from the moment one Civ6 has lost me. I just couldn't bring myself back to playing it because of the far inferior AI, all the exploits balance problems, bugs...and without any hope that they will ever get fixed (mind you, the talked of the final NFP patch as "last" one).
With the Steam depots appearing a few weeks ago, some hope came back that a final patch would come. In this case, I see room for me coming back at least to try out what the fixes etc. have changed. Now we learned that we get leaders, even free ones for us die-hart fans. But no mentioning of a patch. I know that it doesn't rule it out completely - but my hopes aren't too high...beside formentioned remark at the end of the NFP...the constant patching was part of the PR for the NFP, so why isn't it mentioned here, if it is planned as well? And now in case there will be no patch(es)...yes, then I still have gotten a present, but sadly one for a thing I put beside, because of its partial defects. So no reason to "curse" Firaxis, but sadly also no reason to overboard with excitement.
 

Noble Zarkon

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Inawordyes

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In a general sense the number of people I’ve seen doomsaying these DLCs over the perceived lack of a bug fixing/balance pass is very high. It is decently clear, based on prior marketing + dev comments on Twitter beforehand, that the purpose of the livestream changed last-minute to being solely about Julius Caesar, and we already saw I believe at least one bug fixed during the livestream because it ties into Julius’ ability (from what I saw people discussing towards the beginning of this thread)

I don’t say any of this to be dismissive towards those who have moved on from Civ 6, I understand entirely and I know I haven’t touched it myself since the middle of 2020. If the new DLC is just window dressing and doesn’t fix the problems that caused them to move on, I get it. But doomsaying before we’ve even seen a true livestream addressing the first DLC itself (or until it releases on Monday and we see whether any patch notes include important bug fixes) is kinda jumping the gun. We can wait two days to see if there is an accompanying patch (or not) before complaining about a “FreeLC” not fixing things that Firaxis has had two years to know is a problem + work on alongside the LP.

Until it does or doesn’t happen, though, we simply just don’t know. But we don’t have to wait long to find out!
 
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Pfeffersack

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I'll be astonished if they release all this and don't include some kind of patch, seems obvious to me.

Every DLC has always been accompanied by a patch. It's puzzling to me to even have a thought that there wouldn't be one.
No irony: I like both your posts for the optimism they spread :) I'm really hoping that I'm wrong with my feeling that there will be no patch!
 
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I can see them fixing the AI science focus bug, it's an easy fix (I had fixed it myself), but those thinking a huge ai overhaul are probably out of luck. I would guess any ai coders may be working on Civ 7.

What major bugs are still outstanding? I haven't been keeping up on what's still a problem.

As for the AI, I think we need to accept that either they are happy with the AI as is, or the problem cannot be fixed (at least not in a reasonable amount of man hours). I'm leaning on the former given the way the AI has been this way all game. Other issues are game mechanics issues like ai use of aircraft. I made some aircraft not require aluminum which helps somewhat. Given how casual friendly this game is, they may want the AI this way. I just wish there way to improve ai decision making on higher difficulties.
 

tedhebert

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I can see them fixing the AI science focus bug, it's an easy fix (I had fixed it myself), but those thinking a huge ai overhaul are probably out of luck. I would guess any ai coders may be working on Civ 7.

What major bugs are still outstanding? I haven't been keeping up on what's still a problem.

As for the AI, I think we need to accept that either they are happy with the AI as is, or the problem cannot be fixed (at least not in a reasonable amount of man hours). I'm leaning on the former given the way the AI has been this way all game. Other issues are game mechanics issues like ai use of aircraft. I made some aircraft not require aluminum which helps somewhat. Given how casual friendly this game is, they may want the AI this way. I just wish there way to improve ai decision making on higher difficulties.
I agree

Yes the science bug... Also the corporation mode bug... And the asset bug... those three are about what I'm hoping for...
 
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