Leading Immigration Think Tank Study: "Some Races Are Just Dumb You Guys"

[kochman]

And here something for you - can everything be explained by guns, germs, and steel or not?

Over time or today?
Over time, yes, today, no... the structures that oppress or support certain peoples can change over time, leading to a change in performance.

 

[Domen]

Clearly, IQ is decided entirely by race.

Nobody says that entirely (or even that mostly! - but to some extent, maybe) by race.

And by the way, there was an Afro-American genius girl with IQ of 200 - I'm sure she was smarter than all of us, members of this forum. The problem is, that, just statistically, Afro-American IQs are lower than Euro-Americans. Which doesn't mean that Afro-American geniuses don't exist. They do, just in fewer numbers.

On the other hand, many Afro-Americans are not "pure" Blacks - but have also some Europeans among their ancestors -, and their skin is lighter - on average - than that of Africans. Let's just compare average faces, and you will notice obvious "whiteness" of Afro-Americans when compared to Sub-Saharan Africans:

http://leadingpersonality.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/average-faces-of-men-and-women-around-the-world/

Compare especially West Africans with Afro-Americans (because African ancestors of Afro-Americans were West Africans):

I doubt that climate made them whiter - 300 years of presence in the USA is not enough time for a climate-related change.

Climate will eventually make them naturally whiter, but this rather takes few thousand years - not just a few hundred years.

On the other hand, genetic studies have shown that Afro-Americans have on average about 9% of Non-African (European, Native American, Asian) genes in their DNA. Most of it was inherited through sex with European males (plantation owners, etc.).

======================================

Here average faces of some other Sub-Saharan African populations:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../www.xpomo.com/ruskolan/rasa/phenotype_02.htm

For example:

Nilotid anthropological type (South Sudan, Uganda, North-West Kenya):

Igborid anthropological type (found mostly in Nigeria and Cameroon):

Hoid anthropological type (among indigenous Bushmen of South Africa):

East Aethiopid anthropological type (mostly Somalia, Eastern Ethiopia):

Now tell me that I was wrong that diversity between various groups of so called "Black people" is enormous.

However, Afro-Americans are in vast majority descendants of just few ethnic groups from some parts of Western Africa.

Eurasians are descendants of groups of African migrants, but it doesn't mean that those migrants looked like Nilotids. They could look like another type. So I wrote that early Europeans had "dark" skin, but not that they had black skin - this is unknown.

Most probably that group of Africans which gave birth to Whites and Mongoloids was relatively small and homogeneous. Only 5% of original gene pool of humanity migrated out of Africa to colonize other continents. If not counting recent slave trade, of course.

If you don't treat Africans as "one", but break them down into groups like these above, you will find differences in IQ. Some of these groups must inevitably have higher and some lower avg. IQs, due to random lottery effects. 100% equality is only possible in Utopia.

 

[Domen]

"Racial solidarity" among Afro-Americans is present. Their "Black unity" is strong, they think of themselves as "one united race".

But in Sub-Saharan Africa situation is far from such perfection. For example in Rwanda the Tutsi people - who, despite being a minority, managed to establish themselves as the upper class and the ruling elite in a country full of Hutu people - immediately declared themselves as a separate race from Hutu, and also inherently superior to them. As frequently in history, nomads (Tutsi) oppressed farmers (Hutu):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Hutu_and_Tutsi

The origins of the Tutsi and Hutu peoples is a major issue in the history of Burundi and Rwanda, as well as the greater Great Lakes region of Africa. While the Hutu are generally recognized as the ethnic majority of Rwanda, in racialist ideology the Tutsi were identified as a foreign race, as opposed to an indigenous minority. The relationship between the two is thus, in many ways, derived from the perceived origins and claim to "Rwandan-ness". The largest conflicts related to this question were the 1994 Rwandan Genocide, the 1972 Burundian Genocide, and the First and Second Congo Wars.

Ugandan scholar Mahmoud Mamdani identifies at least four distinct foundations for studies that support the "distinct difference between Hutu and Tutsi" school of thought: phenotype, genotype, cultural memory of inhabitants of Rwanda, and archeology/linguistics.

In comparison to the Hutu, the Tutsi have three times as much genetic influence from Nilo-Saharan populations (14.9% B) as the Hutu (4.3% B) perhaps demonstrating a Nilo-Saharan origin that supports their pastoralist historical affiliations, as opposed to the Hutu who were primarily Bantu agriculturalists.[1]

Tutsid "Master Race" (self-declared):

TUTSID (Tytsid)

Local type of East-Central Africa, similar to the Massai-Samburu and South Aethiopid. However, a more vibrant and sustainable negroydnye signs. Dark pigmented and very high. Phenotype characteristic of Tutsis and Hema. Height: high and very high

The Tutsi-Hutu conflict resulted in perhaps the largest of African equivalents of the Holocaust:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Contrary to what some people say, it had a pseudo-racial background, just like the Holocaust.

======================

Edit:

Compared to Hutu people (Bantuid anthropological type):

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Blacks and pardos (Brazilian word for coloreds) are greatly concentrated on the states with the lowest socio-economic development: those of the Northeast.

Why did they get concentrated there? That doesn't happen via stochastic processes alone.

it's that when they do often they start thinking of themselves as white.

What would happen if they didn't?

 

[luiz]

Why did they get concentrated there? That doesn't happen via stochastic processes alone.

Of course not, there are historical / economic reasons for that. Basically the Northeastern states, all of them with Tropical climate (bordering on Equatorial on their northern parts) prospered on early colonial times with a single economic activity: huge sugar cane plantations, which employed enormous amounts of slaves (hence all the blacks and pardos there). But by the mid 18th Century the Brazilian sugar industry started to decay, due to competition with Dutch producers in the Caribbean, which ended Brazil's quasi-monopoly. By the time the country begun to attract large number of European immigrants, in the 19th Century, the center of economic (and political) life had already shifted entirely to the Southeast. The European laborers first came to work on São Paulo's coffee farms, and then were absorbed by the state's booming industries. Millions also settled in the South, where the climate is more similar to what they were used to in Germany or Italy. Because those regions were booming, the descendants of those European immigrants (who usually arrived not only penniless but in debt to the company that brought them) managed to prosper. By contrast, the economic stagnation brought about by the collapse of the sugar industry meant that the Northeastern slaves, once freed, had very little opportunities to progress. Northeastern whites were likewise generally thrown into poverty (and the two groups mixed to such an extent that Northeastern "whites" are much darker than their counterparts in the Southeast and specially the South*). Note that in the mid 20th Century millions of Northeasterners migrated to the Center-South, in particular São Paulo, which is why that state, that never had a big slave population, now has countless blacks and pardos. And those who migrated to the Center-South did prosper (though of course they came in such numbers that many settled in slums), which is why they are in average richer not only than Northeastern blacks and pardos but also Northeastern whites.

What would happen if they didn't?

Nothing. Some don't. Of course this phenomena of richer mixed-race people thinking of themselves as white is related to racism, but it's not as if they're trying to hide that they have mixed blood; they will acknowledge having a black grandma or whatever and nobody is ashamed of that. It's a social convention, which goes to show how race in Brazil is complex, fluid, and based on social factors, not biology. Applying the American racial definitions and politics to Brazil, as the racialists of the "Black Movement" are doing, is a recipe for idiocy. Unfortunately, as the current government is their ally, such idiocy is resulting in tragedy.

*Interestingly, in Brazil the Northeasterners are treated by bigots as if they were a "race". There is some discrimination against them, specially in São Paulo, regardless of the color of their skin (and again they are mixed to such an extent that their skin color means nothing). They are considered uncultured, poor and ugly.

 

[Domen]

"Stereotypical Black guy" I think, looks like for example this "Sudanid type" from African savannah:

On the other hand, these people don't fit to the stereotype:

East African Sandavid type of Tanzania:

Sanid type (similar to Hoid), Bushmen of Botswana and Namibia:

Andaman Islanders (Bay of Bengal):

Andaman Islands:

And these Andaman Islanders probably differ in appearance between the tribes:

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b4381154;view=1up;seq=15

Tribes of Andaman Islands:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andamanese_people

They are one of Negrito peoples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negrito

They also lived in Taiwan (and other places in which they are absent today) in the past:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pas-ta'ai

Negritos may have also lived in Taiwan, where they were called the "Little Black People". Apart from being short-statured, they were also said to be broad-nosed and dark-skinned with curly hair.[13] The little black population shrank to the point that, up to 100 years ago, only one small group lived near the Saisiyat tribe.[13] A festival celebrated by the Saisiyat gives evidence to their former habitation of Taiwan. The Saisiyat tribe celebrate the black people in a festival called Pas-ta'ai.[13]

Pas-ta'ai, the Ritual to the Short People, is a ritual of the Saisiyat people, a Taiwan aboriginal people of Taiwan. It commemorates a tribe of the "Little Black People" who they say used to live near to them, which some anthropologists believe may have been a tribe of Negritos or Proto-Australoid people who may have lived in Taiwan centuries ago, possibly arriving during the coastal migration, although there are no Negritos in Taiwan today.

Dravidians of Southern India are the darkest-skinned group in India - they are believed by some to be descendants of the same, one of the earliest migration waves out of Africa, as Negritos (and maybe Australians - though they have also many distinct features):

http://arutkural.tripod.com/tolcampus/drav-african.htm

https://www.google.pl/search?q=Drav...xOo3TaI3QgsAD&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=912&bih=435

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_peoples

But Dravidians are mixed with later waves of immigration. India is a "racial continuum" from south to north and west to east, but more importantly phenotypes differ between tribes and ethnic groups (so you can find also some on average very dark-skinned groups in Northern India).

For example here people of the Pahari-Korwa tribe of Bihar (north-eastern India):

http://www.stylevars.com/watch/?vid=NJNSu6rRqKE&title=pahari-korwa

http://www.indianetzone.com/8/pahari_korwa_tribe.htm

================================

South Asia, New Guinea, Melanesia - these places are also inhabited partially by "Black" people:

Veddoid people of South Asia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedda_people

And of course Australia (though they are usually counted as an Australoid race or sub-race):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race

Old Australian guys:

Melanesians of New Guinea and surroundings:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians

 

[Domen]

Dutch-Bushmen peoples exist in South Africa (they are descendants of Van Riebeck's group of Dutch colonists, who landed at Table Bay in 1652 and intermarried with local Bushmen herdsmen, as well as descendants of other groups of Boers and South Africans):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griqua_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baster

http://www.cyclopaedia.info/wiki/Rehoboth-Bastaards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Coloureds

Some photos of these "multiracial" Dutch-Bushmen people:

Their total number was about 500,000 in year 1909 and about 1,400,000 in year 1959.

 

[CavLancer]

So I guess whites, Hispanics and blacks are not to be allowed in, just Asians?

 

[Domen]

So I guess whites, Hispanics and blacks are not to be allowed in, just Asians?

Why? Richwine suggested testing IQ of immigrating individuals, not estimating their IQ on the basis of groups they belong to.

the structures that oppress or support certain peoples can change over time, leading to a change in performance.

Among these structurs are post-colonial mentality (strenghtened by treating them as welfare children) and inferiority complexes:

This guy says that a native African girl told him "we don't produce mosquito nets, we buy them from Europe, they are smarter and can produce them properly" (tell me how much can they achieve if they already start with such a terrible attitude):


Link to video.

Example of post-colonial mentality is when their presidents are calling European engineers to help them repair a broken pipe:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/27/us-senegal-water-idUSBRE98Q0MS20130927

Senegal seeks French, Chinese help as water crisis hits capital

(Reuters) - Senegal has appealed to France and China for help to repair damage to a water pipeline that has deprived much of the capital of running water for two weeks, triggering pockets of violent protests.

President Macky Sall cut short his visit to New York for the U.N. General Assembly this week to tackle the crisis, which is the most serious since he came to power last year and has highlighted pressures on basic services in the country.

"The president of the republic has called on his French counterpart Francois Holland and teams of experts will be sent in to bring technical assistance," Senegalese Prime Minister Aminata Toure said on state television late on Thursday.

"China will also send experts to find out what the problem is and bring its know-how," Toure added.

The appeal for international help follows repeated local efforts over the last two weeks to repair a pipeline carrying water to Dakar from a water plant at Keur Momar Sarr, 250 km (155 miles) to the northeast.

The plant supplies 40 percent of the water for the estimated 3 million people that live in Dakar and its suburbs.

Senegalese engineers have tried and failed to repair the damage several times. The water supply company says the underground pipeline was damaged by wear and tear, though some experts have questioned whether it was maintained properly.

Unlike many other countries in the region, Senegal has enjoyed decades of political stability and Dakar has become a major regional hub for West Africa.

However, the government has struggled to keep up with rapid urbanization and the water shortages have brought to the fore simmering frustrations, especially in poor neighborhoods.

Groups of protesters took to the streets this week, burning tires and demanding water. Some threw stones at security forces, who responded with tear gas.

"How can we stay for two weeks without water?" said 27-year-old carpenter Amadou Sow in Dakar. "If the government can't solve something as simple as the water supply, how can they solve more complex problems?"

Across much of the capital, residents are now forced to line up at wells and water trucks in neighborhoods whose taps have run dry.

Sall came to power last year promising to fight corruption and improve basic services such as water and power.

While he has been praised for arresting several high-ranking figures from the previous government, including the son of former President Abdoulaye Wade, he is under pressure to deliver more tangible improvements in living conditions.

(Editing by David Lewis and Pravin Char)

It is a crime to help them in such things. Africans should be allowed to deal with their own matters on their own.

 

[kochman]

Yes, now you are seeing something.
Hand outs often breed entitlements. The hand outs are well intentioned, often spawning from a deserved sense of guilt/responsibility.
However, the powers that be often don't intend or realize how they perpetuate such ideological state apparatuses...
Your example of the schoolgirl can be placed in MANY downtrodden areas, including ghettos in the USA. It does hurt chances for a better tomorrow.

How does one change that? You've recommended sink or swim. I think there is some middle ground to explore.

 

[Domen]

Yes, now you are seeing something.
Hand outs often breed entitlements. The hand outs are well intentioned, often spawning from a deserved sense of guilt/responsibility.
However, the powers that be often don't intend or realize how they perpetuate such ideological state apparatuses...
Your example of the schoolgirl can be placed in MANY downtrodden areas, including ghettos in the USA. It does hurt chances for a better tomorrow.

How does one change that? You've recommended sink or swim. I think there is some middle ground to explore.

But, meanwhile, we can't oppress scientists who research differences between human groups. Science is science - there is no such thing like "evil" science, though each scientific discovery or theory can be used in either positive or negative ways. The very same discovery led to both roentgen, radiotherapy and nuclear bombs. Darwin's theory led to both advancements in medicine and to violent racism.

So, as you can see, scientific theories don't kill - only people who misuse them do.

Guy in that video which I linked in post above put it very wisely, that we are all humans and must respect each other no matter if someone is smarter than average or not. Actually this has been part of moral teachings of many religions and of secular ethics.

Science can't replace morality in proving that every human life's worth is equal despite differences.

=============================

Imagine that someone had started a nuclear war before the discovery of the x-ray, etc.

Something similar happened when it comes to the issue of race, which is why it became a taboo:


Link to video.

How does one change that? You've recommended sink or swim. I think there is some middle ground to explore.

Teach to swim is the middle ground. And also feed, because malnutrition is not good for brain, or any other body part.

 

[kochman]

The thing is, it is impossible to isolate entire races and explain it all to IQ.

Individuals have differences, and we should respect that, but races are equal in potential if given the same set of circumstances. To insist otherwise is like saying, well the chimpanzees from China are vastly more intelligent than the chimpanzees from Guinea.

The chimpanzees in China have a completely different experience. Too many confounding factors to provide any reliable stats.

 

[Domen]

Just as a side note - there exist several races of chimpanzees:

They are probably not aware that they got divided into races by human scientists.

the chimpanzees from China are vastly more intelligent than the chimpanzees from Guinea.

Chimpanzees in China are certainly more civilized because they all live either in zoos or are domesticated.

I guess this is what you wrote about:

http://www.channel4.com/news/chinese-prosperitys-hidden-threat-to-african-apes

 

[kochman]

I'm curious how you define race, Domen?

 

[Zack]

I'm curious how you define race, Domen?

I'd like a definition with at least 2 links, 3 pictures, and an edit thirty minutes after the original post.

 

[kochman]

Hahahahahahahaha
It may be brewing!

 

[Domen]

I'm curious how you define race, Domen?

Let's post a few pages of a book "Race" by John R. Baker. They explain how races can arise even without any selection - it can be enough if just some non-representative part of a population migrates, and becomes a new population - this is a non-adaptive change, just a random drift of people and genes. But a more important part to the origins of races is adaptation of populations to different environments:

Race is also a statistical definition, applied to groups - it is based on "typical" members of a group, some individuals which are part of this group might be very atypical compared to "average", but it doesn't mean that a group can't be defined based on its typical traits:

About the nonadaptive part of the differentiation into races (no selection involved - just random drift of genes; see above):

So races arise through micro-evolutionary forces. In humans they arised for the most part in times when we were scarce in numbers but lived over vast areas - so during the Paleolithic era, the longest era in our history (most of our existence as homo sapiens sapiens, actually). Add to this also various admixtures of archaic humans to our genes (for example small Neanderthal admixture to Non-Africans). Since the start of colonialism, the invention of steam engine and of inter-continental travel, etc., races are slowly getting blurred.

 

[kochman]

Tl; dr

Can you not summarize it into a few sentences?

That's what my IQ level necessitates.

 

[Zack]

delete

 

[Agent327]

Dear Lord, Domen found a race thread. Everybody run for their sanity!