Let's Discuss Taiwan

El_Machinae said:
It's mostly resentment. But that Chinese/Russian bloc is pretty interesting ...
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Silicon Valley, New York, Boston, Orlando, LA, etc are too loud - and they sell/export the narrative on places like Iowa. Which doesn't do anything good for the outlook of Iowans, I would guess. Though, have to admit, the Russians with red solo cups at the beach were having more fun than anyone else I saw on vacation.
 
Commodore said:
Again, that's your anti-US bias making you wish the whole world hated us. They don't. In fact, most nations polled have a significant percentage of their population claiming to have a favorable or somewhat favorable view of the United States in general. Also, when asked who they would prefer to have as an ally in a military conflict, the overwhelming majority of nations polled still claim to want the US as an ally (image below). So I hate to break it to you Tim, but this idea that the world hates the US is all in your head and just wishful thinking on your part.
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Sure man. Gosh, a poll shows that "a significant percentage" of their population, like 40, has at least a favorable view, and they'd rather have the most over armed bully on the planet with them then against them. That's a country that just outright adores the USA! Your own link doesn't support your position as well as it supports mine.

As to this gigantic blind spot you have regarding the value of keeping your word:

Citing "if I break a contract there's legal action" is totally naive. The main reason people pay their debts is because if they don't they know they will be cut off from borrowing. It isn't any "legal action." It's the basic fact that if you debase the value of your word no one is likely to take it any more.

Same thing applies on the international front. The main reason that NATO countries are not going to say "piss off" when the defense clause activates is because they know that if they debase their word in the matter then they aren't likely to be included in any future pacts of the same nature and will be forced to "go it alone." Sure, the US, at least according to Trump, will always just maintain the "we outspend the rest of the world combined" military budget that effectively does allow us to go it alone if push comes to shove...but basic economics and the lessons of the USSR suggest that is far from the truth in regards to what can actually be done. China's economy is going to outgrow the US economy by such a huge margin that even a reasonable percentage of their GDP is going to outpace a backbreaking percentage in the US, and that will be the end of the "go it alone" plan...not that Trump's scorched earth approach to alliances is going to leave us any choice in the matter.
 
Commodore said:
I'm not saying everyone who disagrees with me is doing it because of anti-Trumpism, I was only saying Cutlass, specifically, is disagreeing with me because of anti-Trumpism. And I'm basing that assertion from what I've seen of his posting history here.
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OK, but the logical flaw is still there. @Cutlass can just as easily say that he thinks you are taking a pro-Trump/Trump-opponent-contrarian position, can't he? On the other hand, if you can have some non-Trump-related reason for your position... can't he as well?

More generally, I'm just not seeing what relevance being pro-Trump versus anti-Trump has to do with the real issue you brought up. Are you trying to make some larger point about why/how you embrace Trump's "America First"/isolationist/protectionist message? Where are you going with that prong of your argument?
Commodore said:
With treaties though, there is no force that compels any party to live up to their end of the bargain. If, for example, Russia decides to invade the US, and we invoke the collective defense clause of the NATO treaty, but France and Germany decide to tell us to piss off and fight our own war, what could we really do to them? The worst that happens is the treaty gets nullified, but beyond that France and Germany suffer no negative consequences. If they decide not to honor their obligation to us, all we can do is complain about it loudly.
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Well, that... and refuse to enter into any more treaties/alliances with them in the future, once the dust settles... which is a big reason why sticking by treaties is important. Anyone who has played multiplayer Civ knows that backstabbing allies/treaty breaking screws you with that person, as far as alliances go, not just in that game but in all future games. Its just not worth it in most cases. I'd say the same is true for RL international treaties. A nation/people can have a long memory, and when you eff people over on a grand scale, it can take decades, generations, millennia for that stain to wash away.

I gotta say man... for someone who (based on you posting history, I'd say) is annoyed by black people complaining about slavery, segregation, institutional racism, etc... actually, now that I think about it... it makes sense. If your though process is that you think people should just get over getting screwed/mistreated/cheated/betrayed (whether individually, or as a group/people/nation) and have short memories about that kind of thing, it would then follow that you would not buy into the idea that treaty breaking has real detrimental long-term consequences.
 
Azem.Ocram said:
China is experiencing the biggest housing bubble in human history. Construction and property speculation/investment are the biggest parts of China’s GDP. Many things can pop this bubble but the CCP only tries to kick the can further down the road, instead of trying to release the bubble safely.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/articles/2018-06-24/why-china-can-t-fix-its-housing-bubble
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The only "safe release" for that bubble is rising wages. Fortunately for China wages are indeed rising at a good pace. Their economy is actually pretty easy to predict and manage, because it is following the same path that every industrialized nation has already trod...just bigger.
 
Commodore said:
In fact, most nations polled have a significant percentage of their population claiming to have a favorable or somewhat favorable view of the United States in general. Also, when asked who they would prefer to have as an ally in a military conflict, the overwhelming majority of nations polled still claim to want the US as an ally (image below). So I hate to break it to you Tim, but this idea that the world hates the US is all in your head and just wishful thinking on your part.

1920px-BlankMap-World-large-limited-recognition_%281%29.png
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The way I interpret that map is kinda like how I'd interpret an NFL fan poll of "Which Quarterback would you want on your team?" Sure a lot of non-Patriot-fans all over the country are gonna say "Tom Brady"... but that does not negate the fact that they in-fact, hate Tom Brady... it's just that they want to win. So don't read too much starry-eyed love into a bunch of countries saying that they'd most rather have the biggest baddest military on the planet on their side in a war.
Farm Boy said:
Though, have to admit, the Russians with red solo cups at the beach were having more fun than anyone else I saw on vacation.
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The folks with the red Solo cups are always the ones having the most fun.;)
 
Many newly constructed cities sit empty, or mostly so. They are called “ghost cities.”
 
I know, what in those cities, no one was there in the first place. But in places like Beijing, Shanghai, or Nanjing, there are already plenty of people there fighting for a finite amount of space.
 
Farm Boy said:
Oooooh, the 4th is just around the corner...
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Another ordinary day (and work day and shopping day, and for those young enough, school day) where I live... ;)
 
Azem.Ocram said:
China is experiencing the biggest housing bubble in human history. Construction and property speculation/investment are the biggest parts of China’s GDP. Many things can pop this bubble but the CCP only tries to kick the can further down the road, instead of trying to release the bubble safely.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you are suggesting by that.
Is it that China should be conducting itself according to some Western economic
principles you hold as eternal and universal?

The consequences of a housing bubble bursting could be quite different to what
would happen elsewhere under a different system of government.
 
Farm Boy said:
Oooooh, the 4th is just around the corner...
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May your Brats be hot and your lemonade cold, your chips dry and your drinks "wet", your music live and your mosquitoes dead, your fireworks good and your women bad... And add some blue and white solo cups too!
 
Ferocitus said:
I'm not sure what you are suggesting by that.
Is it that China should be conducting itself according to some Western economic
principles you hold as eternal and universal?

The consequences of a housing bubble bursting could be quite different to what
would happen elsewhere under a different system of government.
Click to expand...
Yes, a housing bubble bursting can be mitigated by a totalitarian regime. However, I see no preparations for easing the pressure on this bubble. If it bursts during a trade war, it is quite possible that China will have a Lost Decade akin to Japan in the 1990s. Japan had a very prolonged but rather mild recession because it did all it could to mitigate the impact of its 1980s bubble burst. China will either see an immediate and extreme recession or a milder but longer-lasting recession. A mild but long recession would have the least social upheaval, and China hates social upheaval. However, if the CCP inflates the bubble too much and doesn't prepare for its burst, that will be exactly what they will see. The bubble is big enough that a well-timed trade war and backing of China's neighbors could throw China into another civil war.
 
Patine said:
Another ordinary day (and work day and shopping day, and for those young enough, school day) where I live... ;)
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You can always explode something and ogle someone, it's really not hard to get in the spirit of the thing!
 
Timsup2nothin said:
That's a country that just outright adores the USA! Your own link doesn't support your position as well as it supports mine
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No, it doesn't support your position at all. Your position was that the entire world hates the US. Those poll numbers show that to be a patently false claim. At worst, the world's attitude towards the US is mostly "meh" and "meh" is pretty far away from outright hatred as you claim.
 
They have no problem with the US. The US government on the other hand......
 
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