Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

[Mitchum]

@ WT, what other settings do you use on B&S. I was playing a few openings to get a feel for your game and the AI were much further away making 5 worker steals by T35 impossible. I could normally get 1, maybe 2.

My settings were:

B&S
Massive continents
Islands
Mixed in

It seems like a balance between having enough land to power through the tech tree and spaceship parts and small enough so that you can get a huge jump start to worker stealing and conquest.

 

[Mitchum]

Hot Tip: How to track builds:[/B]
open the Espionage screen.
Look at the cost to Sabotage the city's production.
Divide by the cost to support city revolt
Multiply by 108 (and round up)

The actual formula is to multiply by 650 and divide by 6 which is 108.33. When doing that, I normally round, not round up. I guess I'm not 100% sure about rounding but Sid loves to FLOOR things.

And yes, tracking city hammers, how many hammers were added and population each turn takes a lot of effort... but in doing so you can almost tell exactly what the city is building. If you want 5 workers by T35, you either have to get lucky or do the work like WT is doing.

 

[WastinTime]

@Seraiel: Thx, I'll try to find a time where the 'worker-tactic' might fit in my game and try it out. For DG, he doesn't have any extra units in the cities rt now. The AI will defend a hill city with just one archer sometimes. I'm hoping that once he builds a settler, and moves it out with escorts, the city might only have 1 defender. Or if 2, the 2nd one will not be fortified. but I'm getting ahead of myself. I'll discuss each 'lure' situation as they come up.

 

[WastinTime]

The actual formula is to multiply by 650 and divide by 6 which is 108.33. When doing that, I normally round, not round up. I guess I'm not 100% sure about rounding but Sid loves to FLOOR things.

Yea, 108 + round up is my lazy way of doing what you said. In fact, I usually just do it in my head and multiply by 100 for extra simplicity.

 

[WastinTime]

@ WT, what other settings do you use on B&S. I was playing a few openings to get a feel for your game and the AI were much further away making 5 worker steals by T35 impossible. I could normally get 1, maybe 2.

You're using MAX opponents, right?
Massive is probably your only option. You don't want multiple continents.
Massive could still leave an AI or two off-continent.
I use Low Seas so I can get around with Galleys better and have more mainland. On Huge, I might do High seas, but I don't see a big difference on that map.

No question I've got extra close AI in the MarbleStart game. Stonefish start probably will be more like what you're seeing. We'll see.
Also, for dramatic effect, I announced 5 workers on T35. Chances are I won't see many more soon as I turn my attention to war. Although maybe I can get a another from DG and one more when I DoW to capture Fred.

 

[Mitchum]

I used Large, Max Opponents (14 on Large), Massive Continent, Islands, Mixed In. I guess the closeness of AI is a bit hit or miss as you said. That's why in HoF, to be competitive you have to play many starting saves and reboot if the first ~50 turns aren't nearly flawless (i.e. a tech from a hut, close neighbors, several workers stolen, etc.).

It looks like MarbleStart is off to a good start. I hope StoneFish is just as good. I want to see you play 2 full games all the way to Space.

 

[WastinTime]

It looks like MarbleStart is off to a good start.

Yea, I think at this point I can confirm that I'll insert Fishing either before or after pottery. Joao's capital has Crab, DG has clam and that other purple city is Washington (not a 3rd DG). It also has Clam. All first ring food. War is also pretty simple. I need to own the 4 AI to my SW. I hope that will get me to at least 11-12 cities. Joao's 2nd city has my stone. He will probably be DEAD first.

Once I turn my attention to the NE, it looks like Willy might be next. Probably wouldn't want to anger him before Alpha.

 

[Mitchum]

I was thinking about cottaging the capital last night. I'm assuming that you did cottage your capital in your previous BC space game. The final save may show it workshopped and/or watermilled but it likely had cottages + OU, right? Before discounting cottages and farming the FPs from the start, consider the % of your total science output this one city had in the early/mid game. I'm assuming that it was over 75% early on and close to 25% on the way to Sushi. That's a lot of research to give up...

 

[WastinTime]

I was thinking about cottaging the capital last night. I'm assuming that you did cottage your capital in your previous BC space game. The final save may show it workshopped and/or watermilled but it likely had cottages + OU, right? Before discounting cottages and farming the FPs from the start, consider the % of your total science output this one city had in the early/mid game. I'm assuming that it was over 75% early on and close to 25% on the way to Sushi. That's a lot of research to give up...

I'll keep an open mind, but for now, I need a bit more food than just Corn if I plan to work 2 gold.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I was thinking about cottaging the capital last night. I'm assuming that you did cottage your capital in your previous BC space game. The final save may show it workshopped and/or watermilled but it likely had cottages + OU, right? Before discounting cottages and farming the FPs from the start, consider the % of your total science output this one city had in the early/mid game. I'm assuming that it was over 75% early on and close to 25% on the way to Sushi. That's a lot of research to give up...

I replayed SG23 to t93 focusing on all-out expansion via warfare. I never cottaged Paris (and only one farm iirc), didn't even chop it until just now for HG. I only built a second settler for the stone early on, later for my 3rd and 4th GLH island cities. My REX was so fast, including captured workers and cities that I had no time to improve anything but resource tiles. On t93, I already have Banking (TA got in on t109 iirc) and my tech rate in raw bpt is anywhere from 1100 to 1500 (iirc) depending on how much research I build.

I haven't even had time for workshops yet.

My point is this: massive REX creates massive bpts without cottages. The only catch is how to pay for the maintenance. I think WT's WB Economy will answer that question.

People will need telescopes to examine the boxes they used to inhabit.

 

[Mitchum]

@LC Keep in mind that this is a space game and not a fastest conquest. In SG23, you could survive with only building a library or three and no cottages. When going for Space, I would think that the rules change slightly, no? Of course, you'll need more libraries but I still think that a cottaged OU capital makes sense... Maybe I still have my telescope turned the wrong way. haha

 

[LowtherCastle]

@LC Keep in mind that this is a space game and not a fastest conquest. In SG23, you could survive with only building a library or three and no cottages. When going for Space, I would think that the rules change slightly, no? Of course, you'll need more libraries but I still think that a cottaged OU capital makes sense... Maybe I still have my telescope turned the wrong way. haha

Yes, a space game won in the BCs! This is what has to happen for cottages in the capital to pay off:

1. tech Pottery
2. build cottages
3. work the cottages
4. build a library
5. build a university
6. build Oxford

Meanwhile, the capital is working two 0-food gold mines, with wet corn and 7 fps for food, and cranking out quechuas for an extended period of warring. Eventually the capital will need a granary and above buildings, all with 6 BFC chops, whips, and raw hammers from 2 grass hill mines and 2 plains hill mines in addition to the gold mines.

The capital will start with 6 , including the gold. Corn, 2 golds and 3 cottages would be +5fpt. You need the capital at pop10 to work 7 cottages. Pop7 growing at 4fpt, pop8 at 3fpt, pop9 to pop10 at 2fpt.

Optimize that timeline.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@Mitchum: Response #2

Actually, it's probably more correct to think of this as a Sushi/MiningInc race than a space race (I assume). In the score game, WT got Sushi ~t280, right? I don't even know how many turns to villages on this speed, but in my mind, they are only worthwhile pre-Sushi and pre-MiningInc. So the question is, do they speed up your Sushi/MiningInc dates?

The answer may involve equifinality to some degree, in that sacrificing the Oxford capital may limit the gains from the WB Economy. Judging from all the gold mines we're seeing in the MarbleStart, though, I'm dubiousing. I think WT will have his hands full capturing cities as fast as he wants and paying for the ensuing astronomical maintenance costs.

The one feature of the BC finish is...no inflation.

 

[WastinTime]

This is what has to happen for cottages in the capital to pay off:

1. 
   ...
2. build a university
   ....

multiple universities
Each Uni could be 2 settlers

 

[Mitchum]

So is that thinking that in a BC finish, Oxford may not even pay off??? That would be interesting for sure! I normally play on normal speed and my games go into the 1600s so what makes sense in a "normal" game has to be reconsidered here.

 

[WastinTime]

So is that thinking that in a BC finish, Oxford may not even pay off???

That's what I've been thinking, but then I went ahead and built it in my Score game. However, in that case, on Huge, I had very few islands that I could reach before Astronomy. This game shouldn't have that roadblock.

I also don't think I will rush Edu as much as usual. I'll probably wait to bulb it, so Oxford would be even later.

I'll study the pros and cons once we're a lot closer to Edu.

 

[WastinTime]

Here's my road planning.

Green: 1 road needed to attack Hamburg
Blue: roads that go to Berlin, Joao and beyond
Red : future roads for various needs
Anyone see why I chose the Yellow roads? there are multiple reasons.

Anyone want to offer improvements to my plan?

Do you see why I don't bother to road the riverGold? even tho my workers were right there already (free move)

 

[AbsintheRed]

Teleporting 101

When a unit is forced to teleport (borders closed, cease fire) out of enemy territory, it jumps from the Origin tile to a Destination tile. It selects the destination tile with the lowest score based on the formula:
2*teleportDistance + distance to our nearest city (nearest to the origin tile, not the destination tile).

This is rather strange.
So the distance from your "nearest" city might not be your actual nearest city from the destination tile?

 

[WastinTime]

This is rather strange.
So the distance from your "nearest" city might not be your actual nearest city from the destination tile?

correct. After you teleport, you could be closer to a different city

 

[MyOtherName]

Well, you didn't road the gold because you are focused on connecting resources and travel routes out of Cuzco. With N-NE and SE-NE both planned for the river crossing, there is literally nowhere you could get to faster by starting a route from the river gold rather than extending one of the red lines.

This is even true for routes out of Hamburg, if you had a direct road connection between the two cities. (which I'm surprised isn't on the plan; I guess you don't expect to send Q's from Cuzco down the cyan route?)

(I assume the intended answer wasn't something more trivial like "I have things that are worth doing right now, so there's no point in wasting time a road without immediate use")