Let's Read the Bible Once

What is the sacrifice? Jesus died, just like all men. Then his daddy apparantly gave him a reroll, thus taking back even the faux sacrifice. It's not so much that it is an unpopular message as one that doesn't really add up once you actually think about it.

I would recommed reading through the sacrificial system in the OT to gain a better understanding of the sacrifice Jesus made for us. The blood of goats and lambs that covered the sins of OT believers was a symbol of the blood of Christ (the lamb of God) that cleanses us of our sins. His resurrection was not a reroll, but an evidence of his victory over death.
 
This last paragraph is like something straight out Confessions of a Justified Sinner. Those who are saved can do just exactly as they please.

What is it? Calvinism?

Many call it that, yes. But it doesn't imply that Christians can do whatever they want. It's an easy inference to make, but it's not correct.
 
It's utter nonsense to say this is unique to Christianity. And just shows a complete ignorance of the other mainstream religions.

(I'm sorry to be so abrupt about it, but I've heard this spouted far too often to tolerate it any longer.)
Then show us how other religions are like Christianity in the fact that the only way to be pleasing to the deity is by doing nothing yourself but allow that deity to do the work.
I would recommend reading through the sacrificial system in the OT to gain a better understanding of the sacrifice Jesus made for us. The blood of goats and lambs that covered the sins of OT believers was a symbol of the blood of Christ (the lamb of God) that cleanses us of our sins. His resurrection was not a reroll, but an evidence of his victory over death.

I just don't feel there is any point trying to talk to JR about. No mater what you say, he wont listen. It has been explained numerous times and yet he just keeps saying the same things. It is just a waste of time.
 
At the risk of pointing out the obvious, accepting that you are a miserable sinner who can only be saved from eternal torment by the benevolent intervention of God/Jesus Christ takes an act of faith significantly larger than 'nothing'.
 
Jesus is saying, "Hey, I'm outta here, but believe in me and if you believe in me, then you can believe in the Father, because if you've seen me, you've seen him." In other passages he says, "I and my Father are one." So if you believe in Jesus and who he says he is, then you shouldn't have any trouble believing in God.

Doesn't that whole "You've seen me" passage apply to his apostles and all the people present there who actually saw him? It doesn't seem to account for me and you - who have never seen Jesus. It also doesn't seem to answer my original question - why the need for God to hide? Why is that an important aspect of his plan for us?

If there aren't good questions in the Bible for this that's fine, I was just curious.
 
Why couldn't I love God if I believed 100% that he exists? I believe that my parents exist, yet I love them dearly - and it isn't forced love at all.
Which "God?"

Would my love for them have been more potent if I needed faith to believe that they exist because it wasn't possible to prove that they exist for some reason? I don't understand this at all, which is I guess why I asked the initial question.
"Proof" of a not so truthful sort "is possible."

Nah, I don't despise those who believe. I know a lot of people who do, most of them in my family. I just don't get why God would on purpose hide himself and put so much emphasis on believing that he exists - seemingly over all other attributes of man.
I'd probably just veer a bit too far away from conventional Christian narrative at this point.

What's so important about believing that God exists? Why would the system break if God wasn't so hard to believe in? Why did God set things up the way he did?
The system wouldn't break. It's being in the system that's problematic.

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Right. :rolleyes:

The problem with Jesus' logic here is that he never bothered to leave any evidence that he existed at all, much less evidence that he was divine. So there was no good reason for people to believe in him. Unless he was just talking to his buddies.
With Great persecution of Christians comes Great erasure of evidence.

Christianity is a religion that should have been dead in it's track even before it started according to the conditions of they, yet somehow it managed to survive.
It did and it didn't. The main reason our current denominations of Christianity exist is that the Roman Empire sought a new state religion in the midst of civil unrest. Christianity, with a little editorial license, fit the bill (monotheism was made to be politically advantageous). At a certain point, disputing the claims of the Latin Vulgate became tantamount to disputing Roman authority, and you need look no further than the inquisition to understand the Roman response to "heresy."

#12 snip It could have been crushed merely by authority if necessary. Why wasn't it, when it made itself so prone to be in the business of others? You think no one would care? Don't be sure:
It was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_the_Younger_on_Christians
 
I would recommed reading through the sacrificial system in the OT to gain a better understanding of the sacrifice Jesus made for us. The blood of goats and lambs that covered the sins of OT believers was a symbol of the blood of Christ (the lamb of God) that cleanses us of our sins. His resurrection was not a reroll, but an evidence of his victory over death.
So his death and reroll was a substitute for animal slaughter for the mid-Abrahamist crowd. Still not seeing how a guy that got a better deal than the rest of us in death made a sacrifice.
 
Doesn't that whole "You've seen me" passage apply to his apostles and all the people present there who actually saw him? It doesn't seem to account for me and you - who have never seen Jesus. It also doesn't seem to answer my original question - why the need for God to hide? Why is that an important aspect of his plan for us?

If there aren't good questions in the Bible for this that's fine, I was just curious.

If God is the Absolute then it means God is Everything. Infinity, Immortality and Eternity are Its natural realities. The fact of something limited is then simply miraculous. Just like for us limitation seems to be everyday inescapable reality and the opposite the unlimited something supernatural. God is enjoying this infinite limitations because in it God is rediscovered and enjoyed over again in limitless forms and shapes. To put it shortly its a magnificent game (hide and seek) on super-enormous scale. Whats more any movement inside this game is in its deepest core pure Bliss because God the Bliss is its source.
 
Doesn't that whole "You've seen me" passage apply to his apostles and all the people present there who actually saw him? It doesn't seem to account for me and you - who have never seen Jesus. It also doesn't seem to answer my original question - why the need for God to hide? Why is that an important aspect of his plan for us?

If there aren't good questions in the Bible for this that's fine, I was just curious.

Seeing as how even when God was around, people did their own thing, does it make such a difference?
 
Yeah, it doesn't really answer my question, but thanks for trying :)

For example, I don't see what would be so bad if God appeared on CNN every morning and gave us a sermon and told us what he thought of the state of the world and gave his advice to his children. We'd sit in front of our TVs and listen to his wise words. Then we'd all go to church and worship him and sign hymns.

We'd still need faith that he's actually a good guy and is there to do good for us - because hey, he could be lying. You'd need faith to believe in him and his goodness, even though you're already convinced 100% that he exists - cause hey, he's on CNN every morning.

Isn't there a quote in the Bible that says something like: "K so you guys will not see me again. I am going into hiding, because ________. Worship me and seek me out. Peace". I mean, probably not, but I haven't read the Bible in a long time.
This is hilarious. You are true Christian-mind product... Thx
To be able to talk to God generally one must be Godlike. Sorry buddy these are the rules. I know its hard but not totally impossible. Remember after all we are sons of God. So anything less then impossible isnt good enough challenge for us. That is why you need faith btw. Becouse you are challenging impossibility.
To be Godlike isnt only a mental conception but realisation of ones true self. I think somewhere in the Bible Jesus says: be like your Father in Heaven.
 
The problem with Jesus' logic here is that he never bothered to leave any evidence that he existed at all, much less evidence that he was divine. So there was no good reason for people to believe in him. Unless he was just talking to his buddies.

Historically existence of Jesus Christ is greater fact then say existence of Julius Caesar.

Everything has some degree of divinity. Those who accept Christ as saviour has some confidence that his divinity is in position to help them.
 
Another is that Moses wrote most of the book, and the Joshua later supplemented it to fill in the gaps.
But then Moses couldn't have been given the entirety of the 5 books, since he was already dead before Joshua would have finished them...

Historically existence of Jesus Christ is greater fact then say existence of Julius Caesar.
Say WHAT?! :hmm: :huh:

Julius Caesar left writings - you know, stuff he wrote himself. Stuff that wasn't written down decades after his death and twisted into philosophical pretzels by followers who had their own political agendas. Julius Caesar's likeness was on the coinage, there were statues, busts, his contemporaries wrote about him while he was still alive, and he had descendants - none of whom history denies existed.

Sheesh.
 
Say WHAT?! :hmm: :huh:

Julius Caesar left writings - you know, stuff he wrote himself. Stuff that wasn't written down decades after his death and twisted into philosophical pretzels by followers who had their own political agendas. Julius Caesar's likeness was on the coinage, there were statues, busts, his contemporaries wrote about him while he was still alive, and he had descendants - none of whom history denies existed.

Sheesh.
I meant influence on world history...
 
Christianity without Rome, would have turned out just fine. Now if you want to take Christian Principles and form Governments with them, that is totally different than being a Christian.
 
Historically existence of Jesus Christ is greater fact then say existence of Julius Caesar.
While conceding that Jesus probably actually existed, this claim is way off.

Edit: Your revised claim is debatable, but it is not the way your original sentence reads unless it is twisted to reach that result - similar to the treatment of many Bible verses.
 
Christianity without Rome, would have turned out just fine. Now if you want to take Christian Principles and form Governments with them, that is totally different than being a Christian.

Nah. It would've stayed as a reformed version of Judaism and would have been about as relevant as mainstream Judaism (IE only relevant as far as everyone is an anti-semite). It certainly never would have reached the massive amounts of worldwide influence it has today if it wasn't the official religion of a superpower that mandated everyone default to it.
 
Historically existence of Jesus Christ is greater fact then say existence of Julius Caesar.
This is just a statement. Here's another: you are wrong.

Now, if you care to make an argument for your statement, I will do so too.
I meant influence on world history...
Which is a entirely different claim, so not sure how your original statement could have this meaning.
 
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