Let's Read the Bible Once

[Valka D'Ur]

I don't know. This was a long time ago that I saw the documentaries, and don't remember if I taped them or not. If I could remember which channel they were on, it's possible they might be available on DVD.

Keep in mind that these were people on a budget and schedule, and they weren't working on anything as large as a pyramid. One project was an Egyptian obelisk, and another was a Chinese bridge. There were others, but I don't recall what they were.

 

[classical_hero]

Doesn't Genesis explain that? It was magic.

The creation of the world was a deliberate supernatural intervention, not magic. I see that you don't have an answer to my question. Why, because you know that you cant answer it without having to retreat from your "attack"

 

[Berzerker]

dont mean to nitpick, but Genesis credits the dry land and firmament to God - not the world. The water covering the formless "dry land", ie submerged, was here before creation.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The creation of the world was a deliberate supernatural intervention, not magic. I see that you don't have an answer to my question. Why, because you know that you cant answer it without having to retreat from your "attack"

Supernatural = magic. The Old Testament says God took a rib from Adam and used it to make Eve, right?

Just because anybody with the slightest bit of knowledge of human reproduction should be able to see how ridiculous that is (unless God was a time traveler or alien with cloning technology) doesn't mean it's not in the bible.

 

[classical_hero]

So you didn't answer the question. How did the first man get a wife according to the story you believe in?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Since I support evolution and lack a time machine, I have no idea what sorts of marital customs the first homo sapiens sapiens people might have had.

 

[Berzerker]

The Sumerian word for rib also means life force or that which animates... If the Bible author was unaware of the context they might have used both definitions to describe Eve - Lady of the Rib and Lady of Life, Mother of the living

 

[timtofly]

God created earth as formless material with water already there. As light interacted with the formless matter the water sunk into pockets below the land. And God preserved some in a canopy around the earth. This would act as a protective cover for a perfect living condition on earth. If the earth was smaller at the time, about the size where the oceans would be seas, the pangaea shape would be were humans dwelt. Adam and Eve were not the only humans. It was only that Adam and Eve in a fallen state, passed on that state through Noah and his three sons. Eve would be considered the mother of all living in the same way Noah's wife would have been considered the mother of all living.

Eve was not the mother of all humans, just the offspring recorded in the genealogy. The other perfectly created humans not involved in a fallen state were drowned in the Flood. Noah's three daughters could have had DNA from the perfect humans who lived before the Flood. Their offspring could have still produced the so-called giants even after the Flood.

It was during the Flood about the time one or more huge meteors added their mass to the earth and the oceans seams were opened and the water from the canopy above the earth collapsed that the earth was flooded and covered all the mountains that were smaller. Over the next 1000 earth rotations the continents continued to spread further out the oldest seams are wider than the newest ones. The ice caps started to grow rapidly and later melted back as the oceans expanded to take in more of the melted icecaps.

A smaller faster spinning earth would allow humans to live longer and reptiles to grow larger. The biological rafts of Dawkins would not have had to travel great distances, but as the continents rapidly spread apart, biological diversity happened.

Before the flood humans lived a thousand year cycle. After the flood that was changed to 120, even though some humans still lived 300 to 400 years. By the time of Moses that was changed to 70, with humans living to 120 to 130. Now we are at 50 with humans living to 90 or 100.

Global warming is a sure thing, since it is said the earth is going to end in a ball of fire.

 

[Berzerker]

God created earth as formless material with water already there.

God didn't make the formless mat'l, God made the "dry land" appear and God called it "Earth". And "Heaven" is the name God gave to the firmament used to divide the waters, the waters came first - the water was here before both Heaven and Earth.

 

[timtofly]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens were all the stars and their planets (material) without light. The earth was material with water.

The "big bang" started all over. The material was there, from the very beginning. It was only during the creation week, that God added light to bring everything to "finished" form. There are some who hold that God is still bringing light to formless material. God can manipulate the elements however he sees fit. It is light that is key to most everything, and God is said to be light, along with every other element.

 

[RobAnybody]

The Sumerian word for rib also means life force or that which animates... If the Bible author was unaware of the context they might have used both definitions to describe Eve - Lady of the Rib and Lady of Life, Mother of the living

Yes, yes, that makes sense. I can picture all those warriors with cracked ribs going "Hey, doc, my life force or that which animates is cracked, possibly two life forces or that which animates. Ouch!" And the doc is all like "wait, do you mean your rib?"

I mean, totally, the "Bible author". 'Cause there was just one, right? That dude might have mixed his translations from Sumerian up. Just that one word. Not any others, of course. Just that one. That no one ever corrected him on. He was pretty good at Sumerian, in general, just that teeny not-at-all-important mistake he made. I am on board with this theory. It's one of the best ones I've ever heard.

 

[Berzerker]

a better translation comes from Young's Literal...

In the beginning of God's preparation of Heaven(s) and Earth...

Heaven and Earth dont appear in the story until after the light etc, and when they do appear they are named by God as the firmament placed amidst the waters and the dry land that appears when revealed by the receding water. The water appears in the story before God.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Where did the first man get his wife?

Or first horse, first fish, first anything? It doesnt really matter anymore to be honest. The question is antropocentric. The Universe is not. The early barbaric religion of OT needs to be antropocentric since it adds evolutionary psychological advantage to developing human specie but since that we have developed and conquered Nature. But we still have to conquer our own lower nature so that our present day victory doesnt turn into our future slavery.

That makes "Intelligent Design" and "Creation Science" all the more ridiculous, though. Once you believe that the Genesis story is about a series of miracles one after the other (or, at the very least, that those events miraculously didn't conform to modern physics as we understand it today), why bother spending millions of <local currency> trying to convince yourself and others that the Bible is indeed factually accurate at all relevant points?

Since the modern physics doesnt have the complete answer why any yet unknown possibility needs to be in conformity with it?

Once you accept that events in the past didn't happen at the same rate, or conform to the same physical laws, that they do today, things like the Grand Canyon being formed in an incredibly short time aren't really a problem to you, are they?

They may be possibility that some universal /physical laws change over time but isnt easier to suppose that there is actually way to bypass these by some yet unrevealed processes which may not be entirely out of human reach?

Walking on water is easy peasy too: all you need do is get all the water molecules (which are usually milling about pretty randomly) to line up under the soles of your feet, and away you go.

I think about it like this. Since consciousness has apparently emerged from matter there must be something which unites these two. If you can become consciously aware of some yet hidden/secret principles which can put in tune matter (or something within it) with consciousness or perhaps develop consciousness so that it can be a master of matter then I dont see why we couldnt under certain conditions walk on water or such. But as of now it has always been easier to build the boat, learn how to swim then to develop occult powers.

Supernatural = magic. The Old Testament says God took a rib from Adam and used it to make Eve, right?

Is everything infranatural magic too?

The Sumerian word for rib also means life force or that which animates... If the Bible author was unaware of the context they might have used both definitions to describe Eve - Lady of the Rib and Lady of Life, Mother of the living

Bingo. That explains it...

 

[Berzerker]

Yes, yes, that makes sense. I can picture all those warriors with cracked ribs going "Hey, doc, my life force or that which animates is cracked, possibly two life forces or that which animates. Ouch!" And the doc is all like "wait, do you mean your rib?"

I mean, totally, the "Bible author". 'Cause there was just one, right? That dude might have mixed his translations from Sumerian up. Just that one word. Not any others, of course. Just that one. He was pretty good at Sumerian, in general, just that teeny not-at-all-important mistake he made. I am on board with this theory. It's one of the best one's I've ever heard.

The Sumerians had many words with multiple meanings, being ignorant of the context could result in not knowing which definition to use. Another example regards Lot's wife being turned into a pillar of salt, the word for salt also means vapor in Sumerian. The stories of events dating back into Sumerian times are obviously more prone to this confusion.

 

[RobAnybody]

The Sumerians had many words with multiple meanings, being ignorant of the context could result in not knowing which definition to use. Another example regards Lot's wife being turned into a pillar of salt, the word for salt also means vapor in Sumerian. The stories of events dating back into Sumerian times are obviously more prone to this confusion.

Yes, again, that makes total sense. The English language, not having words with multiple meanings, makes it hard for me to understand that Sumerian might have them. Now that I know Lot's wife might have been turned to vapor instead of salt because she looked back at Sodom being destroyed by angels, I believe it really happened. That hussy.

 

[Berzerker]

If you understand the problem posed by multiple meanings lacking proper context, why is the Bible exempt?

 

[Harv]

A couple of displays of wealth.....

Day 5 - Genesis Chapter 21 to 25
...
Ephron offers to just give it to him, but Abraham insists on paying fair value, so he ends up paying 400 shekels of silver and buries his wife there.

Genesis 23:15 ....Land worth 400 shekels of silver. What is that between you and me?

If my conversions are correct, the quantity is about 140 or 160 ounces, or about 3500 to 4000 USD. A show of hands who shrugs at $4000 like it is no big deal?

The servant prayed to God for kindness, that the first young woman to come outside the city to draw water would offer him and his camels some would be the wife for Isaac.

And a young woman named Rebekah did exactly that.

Genesis 24:22 After the camels had finished drinking, the man took a gold ring weighing half a shekel and two gold bracelets weighing ten shekels of gold.

That's about 4 ounces of gold? That's about 5600 USD. That is a big tip!

 

[Borachio]

The physical laws governing erosion, weathering, continental drift, plate tectonics, and the water cycle haven't changed during the last 6000 years.

I don't disagree. But how do we know this is true?

 

[El_Machinae]

Can't wait for Harv to update us on the 30 pieces of silver (net present value)

So you didn't answer the question. How did the first man get a wife according to the story you believe in?

Do you mean "where did the first sexually reproducing organisms come from?" Or, "how did the first marriage (a sociological construct) arrange itself?" They strike me as being very different questions.

 

[warpus]

I don't disagree. But how do we know this is true?

Because the scientific theories behind these phenomena make predictions both into the future and into the past and all the predictions check out.