Let's Read the Bible Once

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Jesus died a brutal, bloody, agonizing death.

So does many dogs and cats .

I tell what I think is so special about Christ death. Because while he died he took into himself the worst karma of the entire planet. If he did not do that some huge calamity and major destruction may have taken place. Many people would have suffered immeasurably. This is what all the saints and god-realised souls do. They sympathize with all people who because of their ignorance time and again brake cosmic laws. Just over the last couple decades we have accumulated so much bad karma but the punishment in the form of world or civil war or famine etc. isnt coming because the souls who have power to discriminate can see that we are not in position to take the justice without braking down into dust. They feel that yet another chance and forgiveness will be more effective in the long run.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Everything born dies. Are the monkeys descendants of Adam as well?

Why should they be descendants of Adam, when humans and monkeys had a common ancestor that predated both by many millions of years?

If people really did live 100's of years and could have kids for 90% of that time, there is no reason why Cain couldn't have killed Abel after say 300 years in a world with 100,000 people in it.

You'd think that after 300+ years of living, Cain would have figured out what kind of offerings God liked.

You need to watch Passion of the Christ then on Netflix Instant.

Jesus died a brutal, bloody, agonizing death.

Crucifixion is a brutal death, which can be made to be over with relatively quickly or last for days, depending on how strong the victim is in mind and body, and how sadistic the executioners are. It's odd to me how some people seem to think that Jesus and the two others were the only people in history to have been crucified. It was a common tool in the Roman judicial system. Some crimes were punishable by crucifixion. Others were punishable by strangulation, still others by drowning, and sometimes people were just basically arena animal food.

Even the Pope thought it was highly accurate.

I did not know the Pope possessed a time machine and had gone back to witness it for himself.

I saw it with some friends.
It was so intense, the 30 minute car ride back, no one said a word.
Even today I can't watch it again. It is too much.

An effective depiction will do that. Back in 1981 I worked backstage on a production of Jesus Christ Superstar. Our production was intended to be as "period" as possible - traditional costumes, minimal staging... the only really noticeable exceptions were the cast using microphones and some of the special effects that included strobe lighting and a fog machine.

In our production the actor playing Judas nearly strangled for real one night when his harness slipped. Thank goodness the stage crew rescued him in time.

As for the crucifixion scene itself... I went out and sat in the audience one night to watch the play for myself. During that scene you could have heard a pin drop - on a carpeted auditorium floor. The audience was in shock. I had the same reaction, even though I knew how things were actually set up and what was supposed to happen. This was over 30 years ago, and I still remember how intense it was.

 

[timtofly]

A story mechanism.

Interesting that the only answer you got was a pre-programmed statement isn't it? Can't even go as far as considering the question. That would bring doubt. And doubt, as we know, kills faith.

So does disobedience.

That makes it even less of a sacrifice. Just a minor inconveniance for him. If he burned in hell forever, now that would have been a sacrifice.

Perhaps creating hell and allowing it into his existence would already cover that.

How was Jesus' death a penalty for Jesus if he was a descendant of Adam and all descendants of Adam die anyway? Repeating the inconsistent verses of Paul is not helping me out here.

Jesus committed suicide; as in he willed himself dead. He did not succumb to death, nor did he die naturally from all of the distress. His bones were not broken, to even hasten his death. He was declared dead by the roman guard who made sure of his death.

 

[classical_hero]

How was Jesus' death a penalty for Jesus if he was a descendant of Adam and all descendants of Adam die anyway? Repeating the inconsistent verses of Paul is not helping me out here.

When Jesus was on the cross, he was truly alone, since even God, himself couldn't look upon him while he had the sins of the whole world upon him. That is why he cried out, "My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me?" Jesus was so anxious about what was going to happen, that he burst his blood vessels in the top of head, so that he bleed from the agony, even before he was put on the cross. There has never been a more cruel way to die than on the cross. From all the punishment he suffered, he died much earlier than what is normal, since the whole point was to prolong the suffering. But also their is a second death that is separate from physical death. As Jesus said to Nicodemus, that he must be born again. We see in Revelation that the final judgement of men is called the second death and death and hell are cast into it. Jesus suffered a terrible death so that second death cannot touch man, if they believe in him. Paul is not being inconsistent.

 

[El_Machinae]

Even today I can't watch it again. It is too much.

"A movie so good, you cannot watch it again."

Schindler's list
Requiem for a Dream

 

[JollyRoger]

When Jesus was on the cross, he was truly alone,

Weren't there two other guys suffering the same fate that he chatted up?

 

[Borachio]

John Wayne was there as well.

Still, we're all alone in a sense, aren't we?


*sob*

So alone!

*wail*

 

[Arakhor]

I was expecting some snappy AiG article casually explaining away the Land of Nod. Am I to be disappointed?

 

[TrafficJam]

Hopefully I won't be a part of God committing one of the seven deadly sins either.

Upholding justice is a sin?

Okay, but I can tell many of them are failing in that task.

Unfortunately, you are correct. Many Christians don't do a good job of acting like it. Also unfortunately, many non-Christians use this as an excuse to ignore Christ altogether.

It makes me wonder what happened to all those people who lived in the Land of Nod, who weren't descended from Adam and Eve and thus weren't cursed with death (allegedly).

There's nothing in the Bible that says there are any people living who weren't descended from Adam and Eve. There's also nothing in the Bible (that I'm aware of) that says there were people living in the Land of Nod before Cain got there.

A reasonable explanation would be that Cain moved to some land away from Eden (along with some of his brothers and sisters), and that land eventually became known as Nod. And apparently it was still known as Nod when Moses got around to writing about it a couple of millenia later.

The mark would have been given to him, not to inform people who were already living there not to kill him, but rather to inform people who subsequently moved there not to kill him.

More pre-programmed statements. Mantras to avoid consideration.

I'm not trying to avoid consideration; the same way I would hope you wouldn't just throw out an accusation like this in order to avoid cosidering my viewpoint.

Although as far as I know the only witnesses were his 12 11 apostles and some holy women, so there is still some doubt among those with little faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_appearances_of_Jesus

Your wiki link lists quite a few more people than just the 11 and some holy women, most notable over 500 people at once, most of whom were still alive when Paul wrote about them a good 20 years later (1 Cor 15:6)... the implication to the recipients of the letter being, "they're still alive - go ask them about it yourselves."

Weren't there two other guys suffering the same fate that he chatted up?

I think there's more than one definition of "alone." Sure, Jesus was surrounded by people at his crucifixion, but he was still very much alone. No one else bore the sins of all humanity on themselves at the time of their death, having committed no sin of their own. We have no way of relating to that, so it's no stretch of the imagination to say he was alone.

 

[classical_hero]

I was expecting some snappy AiG article casually explaining away the Land of Nod. Am I to be disappointed?

Just read this. :sigh:
http://creation.com/one-blood-chapter-1-cain-s-wife

 

[warpus]

many non-Christians use this as an excuse to ignore Christ altogether.

Why would non-Christians care about Jesus? They're not Christian. Your comment is very puzzling.

 

[Lillefix]

Upholding justice is a sin?

Depends on how you define sin. But upholding justice could easily be done in an immoral way yes.

 

[classical_hero]

Hopefully I won't be a part of God committing one of the seven deadly sins either.

Death is result of sin. God warned that death will occur had they disobeyed God. (Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.) Ever since that moment we are under the penalty of death, all we are waiting for is for the timing to be completed. Currently we are death row waiting for the execution of God's judgement on us. Ezekiel 18:4a "The soul that sinneth, it shall die". So us dying is a direct of God's judgement on us.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Death is result of sin.

Death is a result of entropy.

 

[TrafficJam]

Why would non-Christians care about Jesus? They're not Christian. Your comment is very puzzling.

They don't care about him. And Christians who don't act like Christians give them no reason to care about him. That's my point. I.E. "You say you believe in Jesus, but you don't act like it. Why should I believe in him if he's had no impact on your life?"

 

[classical_hero]

Death is a result of entropy.

We are al going to die, one way or another, just like the Bible says so.

 

[El_Machinae]

They don't care about him. And Christians who don't act like Christians give them no reason to care about him. That's my point. I.E. "You say you believe in Jesus, but you don't act like it. Why should I believe in him if he's had no impact on your life?"

I think that's partially true. Too many Christians seem to be merely culturally Christian, and not actually spiritually transformed by their rebirth.

 

[warpus]

They don't care about him. And Christians who don't act like Christians give them no reason to care about him. That's my point. I.E. "You say you believe in Jesus, but you don't act like it. Why should I believe in him if he's had no impact on your life?"

I still don't get it. Take me, I'm not a Christian, nor a Muslim.. nor am I Hindu. Why should I care about Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc. religious icons?

I mean, it's not that I despise them or anything, but why should I care about Jesus, Mohammed, Vishnu, or whoever, beyond a cursory acknowledgement?

Maybe I misunderstood your initial comment, but you made it sound like non-Christians should care about Jesus for some reason.

 

[Lillefix]

I think that's partially true. Too many Christians seem to be merely culturally Christian, and not actually spiritually transformed by their rebirth.

Why should they? Most have been born into it, they haven't chosen it.

 

[classical_hero]

I think that's partially true. Too many Christians seem to be merely culturally Christian, and not actually spiritually transformed by their rebirth.

Far too many are afraid of men, rather than God.