How about if I "like" a post merely because it's sarcastic, or mocking someone I don't like? How is that bringing a positive benefit to the forums? Because, I guarantee you, that's what a lot of people will do. Hell, it's probably exactly what I myself would use such a button for.
Like button (desperately needed!)
- Thread starter Ekolite
- Start date
It shows community support for such a comment thus being evidence that it should not be infractable. It should provide community feedback so as to discourage over-moderation.
That too. In over 700 posts at TWC (not all mafia, mind you) I've had only 8 'up reputation' posts. People tend to calm down after they get their first few highs of upvoting anything within sight.
Mise
isle of lucy
People said this about thread ratings, but that hasn't happened. However many "ratings trolls" there are, there are dozens of other, responsible users cancelling them out.
In any case, the vast majority of CFC's users are mature, responsible members of the forum, whereas the trolls represent a tiny minority of "bad apples". All the comments from moderators and users alike seem to confirm this -- that there are a handful of posters who are arseholes while the rest of us mostly want a mature discussion group where we can discuss stuff without flames. If that's the case, then the minority of trolls who abuse the "like" button by "liking" trolls and flames would be overwhelmed by the "silent majority" who use the "like" button correctly by "liking" genuinely good and positive posts.
If you believe that the "like" button would be abused by a majority of users, then you're saying that the majority of users are immature trolls. If that's the case, you'd be better off going to some other forum. I come here because of the majority of interesting, thoughtful and mature posters; I come here in spite of the minority of immature trolls. I believe, and according to what I've read in SF, most users and moderators agree, that the majority of users are mature and sensible, and that the trolling/flaming problem is confined to a small minority of posters. For that reason, I have to believe that the "like" button would indeed be used in the same way as the "thread ratings" have been used in the Civ sections and now in OT -- to rate threads according to how "good" they are -- and that "ratings trolls" would be drowned out by the vast majority of sensible posters.
EnglishCrusader
AYEEEEE
There are some good points here - on both sides.
Surely I don't need to tell you that the infractability of a comment is solely a matter of whether it breaks the rules or not. Whether other people "support" the comment is wholey irrelevant to that issue.
Surely I don't need to tell you that the infractability of a comment is solely a matter of whether it breaks the rules or not. Whether other people "support" the comment is wholey irrelevant to that issue.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
A "Like" button is useful for threads like "post your favorite song" or "post the funniest picture," because those are one-dimensional: either you like the song/find the picture funny or you don't. The same isn't true of lengthy political diatribes or historical essays.
I need the 'like' button so that I can upvote your comment for sheer cheek.I have 95 posts, with 20 rep pointsAnyway, carry on
Erm, depends. There's always a grey area. Also, if a comment gets a lot of downvotes -which the admins can find out who they're from, so illegal alts needn't be a problem- a post that doesn't exactly break any individual rule can still be shown to be troublesome.
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
There's just no way that a system with downvotes would fly here.
The mods are the judge but the potential like raters are functionally are jury - giving factual guidance to the judge. If the post is viewed positively by the community, then that undercuts a finding of trolling or flaming as we are a mature community that does not like trolling or flaming.
As is often the case, I think this is being looked at in too much of a Colosseum-centric light. How would it impact on the civ forums? Those forums are generally more civil and with less defined groups of trolls that could potentially cause a problem. It would seem likely that it'd be used to indicate a good strategic tip, a good custom unit, or a good suggestion, to take some examples. To look at the last of those more closely, if you have an ideas & suggestions thread, thread ratings give you an opportunity to 'like' the general idea as expressed in the OP. But you don't get to acknowledge in the same way good additions or changes to the initial suggestion. Posting 'I agree' without anything will likely get you warned for spam, so there's no way for lurkers or people that appreciate the thought that is put into a post to make such an acknowledgement. A 'like' feature allows for that.
<insert something about needing a hack and not wanting to waste admin time, even if a small benefit would be provided>
One of the problems with a 'like' feature could be that if someone tells another poster that they're an idiot, and quite a few people agree, they'll 'like' the post, because it's a way of expressing the same sentiment in a way that won't get them infracted. But the post is still entirely against the rules. That a few people agree that someone is an idiot doesn't make it okay to call them one, and the expression of that 'like' doesn't make it any less flaming. It just created more antagonism. This is probably one of the major issues with any possible 'like' feature.
<insert something about needing a hack and not wanting to waste admin time, even if a small benefit would be provided>
One of the problems with a 'like' feature could be that if someone tells another poster that they're an idiot, and quite a few people agree, they'll 'like' the post, because it's a way of expressing the same sentiment in a way that won't get them infracted. But the post is still entirely against the rules. That a few people agree that someone is an idiot doesn't make it okay to call them one, and the expression of that 'like' doesn't make it any less flaming. It just created more antagonism. This is probably one of the major issues with any possible 'like' feature.
Mise
isle of lucy
There's a built-in vBulletin feature that allows users to "thank" other users publicly. If it were public, it would make people less likely to "like" a blatant troll, for fear of having their names associated with the troll. At the very least it would make it easier for the rest of us to spot who the trolls are and who are goading them on, so that we can get a better idea of whose posts to ignore...
Of course, it would also mean fewer people would use it, but there's definitely a balance to be struck.
(p.s. my understanding is that it would be trivial to rename the "thank" button to "like" or "recommend" or whatevever else you want, but even if it was left as "thank" it would still be a great improvement.)
EDIT: Here are some pictures from the xda forums:
Of course, it would also mean fewer people would use it, but there's definitely a balance to be struck.
(p.s. my understanding is that it would be trivial to rename the "thank" button to "like" or "recommend" or whatevever else you want, but even if it was left as "thank" it would still be a great improvement.)
EDIT: Here are some pictures from the xda forums:
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I think you've got the judge-jury relationship back to front there.
azzaman333
meh
If it's blatant flaming, liking it could, and probably should, result in a minor infraction. It wouldn't take long for people to stop.
It definitely would be, but only assuming the feature is public (aren't most reputation/like systems generally anonymous?).
azzaman333
meh
I haven't seen a reputation or like system that is anonymous. In my experience, reputation is normally private, but associated to the name, and liking is normally public. To be honest, I don't see why anonymous would be better than public anyway.
Mise
isle of lucy
The system that's already built in to vBulletin to "thank" a post is public - see screenshots I posted above.
Abaddon
Deity
Which is a real shame, I liked it in the "good old days" when it was actually the case.
This potentially cuts down on the mods' work and cuts down on bad posts. If it is an obvious troll, then it will be infracted, but a person agreeing with the sentiment now free rides by "liking" the troll post rather than posting a troll post of their own. The "idiot" sees that there is community sentiment that they were an idiot in that particular circumstance and perhaps rethink their posting.
What I was talking about, though, is a more borderline post. One that is in the gray area - a bunch of likes should give the moderator some pause before dropping the infraction hammer.
Or, do as one former mod used to do (the only one that has extended this courtesy to me) - ask for an explanation of the post/thread title/whatever or suggest an edit.
The judge is the ultimate decider, so I think I got it right. The "likes" would be the opinion of the jury pool, but the judge/mod still has to make the decision and the post itself could be so bad that it is an infraction as a matter of law, no matter what a jury or a bunch of likers would think. In a more borderline case, the likes can give some feedback that a mod should consider.
If you know who "Liked" the post, perhaps you could engage the "Likers" with the better reputations in some pm's on why they liked it to see how it may be seen from the mature community perspective. I think sometimes a post is infracted because the mod does not really understand it and misconstrues it to have an infractable intention when it really isn't there (and to be fair, I am sure that some posts that had infractable intent survive moderator scrutiny because infractable intent is missed by the moderator or given the benefit of the doubt).
I think the "Like" button could give additional feedback to the mods. The star-system experiment has gone fairly well - if you sort by stars, you will see that the star system is doing a fairly good job of gauging quality. Because of this, I don't see the problem with an experiment with the "Like" button.
JR
5-Star Generalist
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2001
- Messages
- 30,080
Unfortunately, there isn't. That is also a hack (well, in our version at least). The only built-in thing we have is "reputation", and that isn't going to fly here.
