LK154 - CCM - Bablyon

[Northern Pike]

If we make some of the deals available to us now--e.g. Physics to Spain for 149 gpt and peace to the Mongols for 33 gpt--we should be able to afford Ballistics as a onefer while hardly dipping into our 5400 gold. I think we should do it. We don't need to hold out for the Ballistics-Medicine twofer when we don't even want the Medicine-Enlightenment-Democracy line, except to get us into the next Age, and we'll probably have several opportunities to trade other techs for Medicine.

 

[Civinator]

According to our advisors the Hebrew military has Calvary.

Thank you very much for the information.

 

[Northern Pike]

BTW, Civinator, have you thought about making Religion a less expensive tech in 2.0? As the game plays now, getting over that huge hurdle is the player's main tech concern in the first Age. If that's what you always intended, fine. But if not, you might want to cut Religion's beaker cost considerably.

 

[Greebley]

I did the deals NP mentioned and a few more. We have Ballistics, 5766 gold. and 124 gpt. We could buy Absolutism outright.

I am tempted to try a steal from USA which I bought Ballistics from:

1) It works just over 1/2 of the time for 4112 gold (safe steal) and we get abs with cav in sight...
2) If USA gets mad at us (33% of being caught for safe) and declares war, they lose the 308 gpt and elephants and we can likely buy Absolutism. They will send troops at us which might slow the Chinese war. They are just past the gap. We would likely have to deal with their fast units before making peace if they have any ROP.
3) 13% we won't get caught or if USA doesn't declare, then we just lose the 4112 gold for no gain.

Opinions? We could also risk less gold and do a quick steal if we think the US will declare.

 

[Northern Pike]

In my view, steals are either for situations so good we can afford to lose the money for nothing, or situations so desperate that we just have to make some tech progress. Our position now falls between those extremes, and I wouldn't do it.

I'd be more interested in the straight purchase of Absolutism. I assume it would take almost all our gold and gpt, but can you judge whether we could then sell it on?

 

[Greebley]

Actually Israel might better. We owe them more 360 gpt for 19 turns) and they have to slog across that unroaded no mans land so we could probably get peace soon after they get to us. We could even pull in Indochina and let the two fight.

 

[Northern Pike]

We could even pull in Indochina and let the two fight.

This won't work in CCM--no military alliances.

Generally, I don't see why we would take any risk of complicating the military situation when the Chinese are at our mercy, and we only have to absorb their lands to have a plainly won position.

 

[Greebley]

No trades possible. We are in the same dead end as with Ballistics.

It will likely be a 1-fer as everyone has both it and medicine or we are ahead in tech.

Another proposal is to try it later with Israel after fighting the Chinese. They will almost certainly declare war if we are caught; I checked and we are strong vs USA so they are less likely to declare war on us.

Succeed - get a tech for cheaper
Fail and caught - War with Israel and we can purchase abs with the 360 we get back. We pull in Indochina and start taking their cash.
Chance of fail and uncaught is much smaller than the other two.

I think I like trying it on Israel after the Chinese war best.

 

[Civinator]

BTW, Civinator, have you thought about making Religion a less expensive tech in 2.0? As the game plays now, getting over that huge hurdle is the player's main tech concern in the first Age. If that's what you always intended, fine. But if not, you might want to cut Religion's beaker cost considerably.

Yes, this is intended. Religion offers religious "crossover" buildings and therefore access to additional religions (and their culture). Also this tech is a big part of bordering the Classical Age and the early Medivial Age in CCM. Minimizing the costs of that tech would end the classical period in CCM much too early and third, it should stimulate the player to be the first to discover the tech Philosophy and gain Religion as a free tech.

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for explaining your reasoning.

 

[Greebley]

Decided to post a mid-term report. Only been a few turns but I noticed something odd - a Great Wonder is not being built...

Preturn: Do the deals NP suggested and and some more; several civs will give in the range of 30-40 gpt. We are now at 432 gpt.
Throwing in our elephants I can get Ballistics for 308 gpt + 30 gold from USA.
We end up at 124 gpt
I seriously consider trying a steal of Absolutism from USA; that ends up as an idea of doing it to Israel after the current war.
Musketeer upgrade is free. Upgrade a bunch.

IBT: Lost 3 Knights in the IBT. One defending town has no def 4 defender. We kill about an equal number.

1690 AD: Clear up scattered units. Looks like we need healing and waiting for Muskets for better defense.
Switch some builds around - in some cases to increase growth like the capitol which can build 1 turn Muskets and grow 5x faster. It can switch back to Knights easily when larger.

IBT: Tsingato flips on us

1695 AD: Slow advance on cities for non-healing units. We take the town back.

1700 AD: Continue to get attacks and small losses of Arq. The Muskets are finally getting to the front and will now help. We can likely move forward soon again.

I can get Absolutism from USA for Iron, 280 gpt, and 400 gold leaving us with plenty of gold. It is a 1-fer but the only offer around; everyone has both tech or is behind us.

We have 6258 gold and 30 gpt. Note I have been taking deals with old tech so we can afford this.

There is finally a 2-fer so I will try it as it is the tech for Cavalry - I first need to get some gpt so I give France University for 42 gpt.

30 gpt and 6180 gold give us Naval power. We nearly don't have enough, but Canada will trade us Mil Tradition for Naval power 40 gpt and 218 gold.

We are at 0 gold and 2 gpt but have Cavalry.

-------------------
Question:

This allows us to build East India company which is a great wonder. Oddly no AI is building it. I was wondering if there was a reason why. It seems to be coastal only but Israel and Nubia do have coastal cities. We can get it in 25 turns so I think I will at least start it. If the AI does start it we have other small wonders to fall back on.

Another bit of advice for next game. We need to build barracks when we get close to Cavalry. We were relying on heavily on Castles which all went obsolete with mil-trad so my plan to start Cavalry right away is delayed by the need for Barracks.

I included the save in case it would help with the East India Question...

 

[LKendter]

I say go for the wonder.

 

[Greebley]

I checked and East India being commercial will give us a Golden Age when combined with the Great Wall. I put it in our fastest city for the attempt; 22 turns with no wonders being built currently by the AI. Not our fastest producer but since any city has to be coastal this will be true for the AI as well.

 

[Greebley]

In 1704 the US started the East India, so its not impossible for the AI to build. I am guessing the coastal ones are slow to start on a map like this.

I am continuing our build. We have several smaller wonders to fall back on and the US may mess it up. I didn't check how long it would take; We should do that when we get to the point switching to a small wonder would cost shields.

 

[Northern Pike]

Good work getting the twofer, and spotting our opportunity with East India Company. The AI civs we know don't have any Wonder builds going at all, so they can't cascade to EIC (to amplify Greebley's point).

We can sell Naval Power to the Incas for 94 gpt and 387 gold, though that's not a great price and if you'd rather hold it back as a trade asset, that's your call.

The turn-220 settlers will be arriving for all civs next turn, meaning that we should be able to strangle China's at birth if we take Beijing in two turns as seems to be the plan. We should watch carefully to be sure we know the fate of that settler.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I agree, build the Wonder. What about the Military Academy for Artillery?

Since we are close to Enlightenment (which obsoletes Slavery), should we stop building Slavery ( takes about 25 turns to recover cost of building)?

 

[Northern Pike]

Since we are close to Enlightenment (which obsoletes Slavery), should we stop building Slavery ( takes about 25 turns to recover cost of building)?

Definitely--in fact I think we tacitly reached this decision some time ago, since we have no slavery builds going.

 

[Jersey Joe]

In 1704 the US started the East India, so its not impossible for the AI to build. I am guessing the coastal ones are slow to start on a map like this.

I am continuing our build. We have several smaller wonders to fall back on and the US may mess it up. I didn't check how long it would take; We should do that when we get to the point switching to a small wonder would cost shields.

Is there a way, besides watching the announcements/news, to find out if a Wonder is being built or who is building it?

 

[Northern Pike]

The f7 key. The display lists all completed Wonders, and ongoing builds by only the civs we know.

 

[Northern Pike]

I agree with our sticking with the EIC build, since the potential rewards are so great and fallback Wonders are available, as you say.