Lockerbie guy - when is he going to kick the bucket?

[Skwink]

Unlike his supposed 270 victims. But either way, it is great to see so many ultraconservatives having fits over it. We should give amnesty to more of the people they try to vilify.

If someone went and killed your whole family, would you want to give him amnesty for free?

 

[MobBoss]

If Megrahi gives so much apoplexy to so many ultraconservatives, may he live a long time.

Wow, I never thought you would actually cross the line to support a convicted terrorist so openly....

And there is no 'supposed'. I suggest you look up what 'guilty as charged' and 'conviction' means. 'Supposed' went away once a conviction of the charges was reached.

 

[sonorakitch]

Wow, I never thought you would actually cross the line to support a convicted terrorist so openly....

You didn't?

 

[MobBoss]

You didn't?

Nope. But I guess I was wrong. Sometimes I am still surprised around here when I thought I had seen it all.

 

[Mise]

Well, it certainly looks naive of me to have trusted the judgement of the experts in a case of this magnitude. Lesson for the future for me - sometimes it's better to ignore the experts, and err on the side of caution, if we're talking about releasing a convicted terrorist. I still think, though, that release on compassionate grounds is not at fault in principle; the judgement of the Scottish courts in this particular case, though, looks like the wrong one.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I still don't understand why he had to drop his second appeal in order to get released.

Looked at the other thread:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE57J4SS20090820?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=11611

Megrahi, 57, is the only person convicted of the bombing. He lost an appeal in 2002, though a review board ruled in 2007 that there might have been a miscarriage of justice..

While the relatives of many American victims were convinced of Megrahi's guilt, the families of many of the Britons killed have questioned the quality of the evidence used to convict him, and some have campaigned for his release to die back in Libya.

"I am delighted. I don't think he had anything to do with it and I think he was effectively framed," Jim Swire, whose daughter Flora died in the bombing, told Reuters.

So if there's ambiguity in such a case like this ... why make him drop his second appeal in order to be released? How am I to know whether there's just saving face involved to cover up shoddy investigation, or whether a terrible mistake was made in releasing a terrorist?

 

[Mise]

Yeah, it's certainly perturbed my faith in the British legal system. The reason I trusted the judgement of the courts in the first place (as I repeated at length) was because I had faith in the integrity of the legal system. Even if people sometimes make mistakes, we still need to be able to trust the integrity of the courts, the prosecution, the police, and defense, that they don't lie or cheat, and that they are principally concerned with upholding justice above all else. It's acceptable and expected for humans to make the wrong decision sometimes, but to make a decision driven by a need to cover up previous failings, to save face, or worst of all, for oil, is completely unacceptable. The integrity of the judiciary is of vital importance to the nation, and is one of the fundamental priciples through which liberty is secured and democracy is existentially justified. If the truth is that the Lockerbie guy was released to secure an oil deal or to save face, then that would make a mockery not just of the legal system, but of our entire democracy. And that would make me a very angry Mise. Perhaps most galling of all, we'll probably never even know the whole truth.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Nah, that was his 2nd appeal.

Plenty of people have been freed after their first appeal failed.

British cases I can recall off the top of my head:

Birmingham 6

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Six

Guildford 4 and Maguire 7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_Four_and_Maguire_Seven

Barry George

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_George

If there was a doubt raised by a review board it should go to appeal again.

 

[MobBoss]

Well, it certainly looks naive of me to have trusted the judgement of the experts in a case of this magnitude. Lesson for the future for me - sometimes it's better to ignore the experts, and err on the side of caution, if we're talking about releasing a convicted terrorist. I still think, though, that release on compassionate grounds is not at fault in principle; the judgement of the Scottish courts in this particular case, though, looks like the wrong one.

Well said Mise!!!!! After all our argument in this thread in regards to this, and then to hear you say this? I say 'BRAVO' to you, sir!! Very well said.

And I agree with you. If the guy had gone home and keeled over deader than a handcart, I would be in your position here saying I was wrong. I think there is a time and a place for release on compassionate grounds, but this was a case where a lot of people died in a very high profile case. Not exactly a smart move releasing him, even along compassionate reasons.

Plenty of people have been freed after their first appeal failed.

And even more havent. Your appeal to authority is defeated by an even larger one.

If there was a doubt raised by a review board it should go to appeal again.

I wholeheartedly agree. But in this case it wasnt....he was released under tongue in cheek/wink/wink circumstances.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Wow, I never thought you would actually cross the line to support a convicted terrorist so openly....

Wow. I never thought you would repeatedly personally attack other posters by making absurd insinuations instead of addressing the issues.

People should be ashamed they let this terrorist go. People in this thread should be ashamed for being so naive as to have supported his release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...granted_clemency_by_a_United_States_president

Republican President Ronald Reagan, Pardoned, Commuted or Rescinded the convictions of 406 people during his term.[13] Among them are:

W. Mark Felt and Edward S. Miller - FBI officials convicted of authorizing illegal break-ins. Mark Felt later in life admitted to being Deep Throat, the informant during the Watergate affair.
Junior Johnson - Moonshining
George Steinbrenner - Was convicted of illegal Nixon campaign contributions and obstruction of justice.

Republican President George H. W. Bush, Pardoned, Commuted or Rescinded the convictions of 77 people during his term.[14] Among them are:

Armand Hammer - CEO of the Occidental Petroleum Company, contributed $110,000 to the Republican National Committee just prior to his pardon. Pardoned for illegally contributing $54,000 to Richard Nixon's presidential campaign in 1972.[15]
Caspar Weinberger - Republican Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan for his role in the Iran-Contra Affair
Robert C. McFarlane - Republican National Security Adviser to President Ronald Reagan for his role in the Iran-Contra Affair
Elliott Abrams - for his role in the Iran-Contra Affair
Duane R. Clarridge for his role in the Iran-Contra Affair
Clair George for his role in the Iran-Contra Affair
Alan D. Fiers for his role in the Iran-Contra Affair
Myra Soble (1957 Conspiracy to receive and obtain national defense information and transmit same to foreign government)
Joseph Occhipinti - Federal drug agent convicted of violation of civil rights, perjury and depravation of rights. Commuted.[16]

Republican President George W. Bush Pardoned, Commuted or Rescinded the convictions of 200 people during his term.[20] Among them are:

Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Assistant to President George W. Bush and Chief of Staff to Dick Cheney was convicted of perjury in connection with the CIA leak scandal involving members of Bush's administration who 'outed' CIA agent Valerie Plame. Libby received commutation, not a full pardon.
José Compeán and Ignacio Ramos - Two US Border Patrol who wounded drug smuggler Osvaldo Aldrete Dávila and tried to cover up the incident.[21]
Charles Winters - Posthumous pardon for smuggling three B-17 Flying Fortress heavy bombers to Israel in the late 1940s
Issac Robert Toussie Convicted of making false statements to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development
Edwin L. Cox Jr. Convicted in 1988 for bank fraud, Cox Jr. was pardoned after his father, long time Republican contributor Edwin L. Cox Sr, made a large, last minute donation ($100,000-225,000) to the Bush presidential library.[22]
John Forté Hip-hop singer/song writer's sentence for smuggling cocaine was commuted.[23]

 

[MobBoss]

Wow. I never thought you would personally attack other posters instead of addressing the issues.

How is that an attack? I am simply saying your comment really took me by surprise. Tell me how my statement is false in any way. Seriously, you just said you hope a convicted terrorist lives a happy long life after he was released on the premise that he was terminally ill and would die within 3 months.

So by all means, convince me that your comment isnt support of this guy. "Cause by my definition it sure is.

EDIT: @Form. You also left off some of the good ones pardoned by Bill Clinton and other dem presidents. Not that it matters. Tell me, how many of them were convicted of killing near 300 people in an airline bombing? Any of them? How many truly bad people never had their sentence pardoned or commuted by a President? A lot? Yeah.

So let me describe to you what you just did. Its called a RED HERRING. Look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(idiom)

Seriously, Form. For someone who complains about logical fallacy from others as much as you do, I am always surprised when you do something so obvious as this.

 

[sonorakitch]

Left wing moonbats trying to equate Bush with people blowing up civilian aircraft intentionally to cause mass murder is so 2008 Forma....

You really outta work on something else...

 

[Skwink]

This too^.

The Republicans weren't the only ones:

Democratic President William J. Clinton, Pardoned, Commuted or Rescinded the convictions of 459 people during his term.[17] Among them are:

* Roger Clinton, Jr. - brother of Bill Clinton. After serving a year in federal prison for cocaine possession.
* Patty Hearst - Bank robbery. Prison term commuted by Jimmy Carter. She was released from prison in 1979. She was fully pardoned by Clinton in 2001.
* Marc Rich, Pincus Green - business partners; indicted by U.S. Attorney on charges of tax evasion and illegal trading with Iran. Pardoned at the request of 3 Republicans including Lewis Libby.[18]
* Dan Rostenkowski - Democrat from Illinois. Served his entire sentence, then pardoned.
* Fife Symington III - Republican Governor of Arizona.[19]
* Susan McDougal - partners with Bill Clinton and Hillary Rodham Clinton in the failed Whitewater deal. Guilty of contempt of court, she served her entire sentence and was then pardoned.
* Henry Cisneros - Clinton's Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count for lying to the FBI, and was fined $10,000.
* Mel Reynolds - Democratic member of the United States House of Representatives.
* Henry O. Flipper - The first black West Point cadet was found guilty of "conduct unbecoming an officer" in 1882.
* John Deutch - Director of Central Intelligence, former Provost and University Professor, MIT
* Rick Hendrick - NASCAR Team Owner & Champion.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Well said Mise!!!!! After all our argument in this thread in regards to this, and then to hear you say this? I say 'BRAVO' to you, sir!! Very well said.

And I agree with you. If the guy had gone home and keeled over deader than a handcart, I would be in your position here saying I was wrong. I think there is a time and a place for release on compassionate grounds, but this was a case where a lot of people died in a very high profile case. Not exactly a smart move releasing him, even along compassionate reasons.



And even more havent. Your appeal to authority is defeated by an even larger one.



I wholeheartedly agree. But in this case it wasnt....he was released under tongue in cheek/wink/wink circumstances.

All the more reason to have the appeal again then. But we won't get it because of this release, which makes the release based on dropping the appeal just makes it look doubly bad. There was a review which said there may have been a miscarriage of justice in this case.

I agree with what Mise said anyway.

 

[MobBoss]

All the more reason to have the appeal again then. But we won't get it because of this release, which makes the release based on dropping the appeal just makes it look doubly bad. There was a review which said there may have been a miscarriage of justice in this case.

'May have been' doesnt mean 'was' and it doesnt even mean a finding of such means the guy was innocent either. I agree the appeal should have gone forward, but apparently it was easier to have some doctors squint real hard (i.e. compromise their integrity) and say the guy only had 3 months to live when he was obviously going to live a lot longer than that.

 

[Disgustipated]

Wow, I never thought you would actually cross the line to support a convicted terrorist so openly....

And there is no 'supposed'. I suggest you look up what 'guilty as charged' and 'conviction' means. 'Supposed' went away once a conviction of the charges was reached.

all liberals support terrorism, at least he has the guts to admit it. They feel terrorists are freedom fighters after all.

 

[El_Machinae]

Moderator Action: Hi guys, let's please be civil

 

[Quackers]

all liberals support terrorism, at least he has the guts to admit it. They feel terrorists are freedom fighters after all.

Remember it is American foreign policy actions which create terrorists. So in other words whatever America does it leads to the creation of terrorists.. Its your fault that they fly planes into your buildings and kill 3000 people.

Didn't ya know?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Yeah. They attacked on 9/11 because they hate your collective freedom.

I really don't care much either way about this dude, but I have to admit it gives me great pleasure watching all the "law and order" reactionaries get so irate over this supposed travesty of justice while blithely ignoring so many others. Let's see you raise a big stink about Lt. William Calley, for one, much less all the other US war criminals who received little or no punishment whatsoever. Or does your enmity only extend to those whom you want revenge instead of actual justice?

 

[Quackers]

It gives you pleasure that a guy who murdered over 200 people is going to live happily ever after, just because it hurts your idealogical opponents?