Lockerbie guy - when is he going to kick the bucket?

[Skwink]

But a pointless war costing trillions for no apparent reason apart from bollocks made up by sexed up documents?

Is that civilised behaviour?

Your right, just let those terrorist be free to countinue killing.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

My point was that the punishment did not fit the crime. Killing 200 innocents takes away your right to freedom forever.


I am not talking about being consistent with what Bush and Blair did, but rather about your subtle suggestion that if we let Bush and Blair free we might as well let the Lockerbie bomber free as well.

I haven't suggested that.

I suggested if he had a matter of months to live compassionate release was probably ok.

But now it looks like it was a ruse to prevent an appeal (or some political shenanigans for oil or diplo).

PM Groovy Dave really needs to announce an inquiry (I think he was against the release to begin with).

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Your right, just let those terrorist be free to countinue killing.

Terrorists in Iraq? Are you tripping on acid?

 

[JollyRoger]

My point was that the punishment did not fit the crime. Killing 200 innocents takes away your right to freedom forever.

Not all punishments fit the crime. That murdering cop in Oakland is only going to do 5-14 years and get to serve it segregated from the general prison population.

You don't know anything about Christianity.

I know enough to realize that isn't the response you should be taking to my ignorance. My immortal soul is at stake.

 

[Skwink]

I never saw you say Iraq in specific.

Jolly-In my experience it is likely that you won't covert. Why waste time on one that won't covert when there are others that will?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Oh OK. Afghanistan was justified of course but they have cocked it up.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Moderator Action: The personal comments need to stop. Leave discussions from other threads out of it, also.

 

[JollyRoger]

Cost-benefit analysis comment retracted.

 

[nonconformist]

FWIW, most Brits invovled with the investigation don't agree with the conviction. They know Americans falsified information and evidence.
The impartial review of the trial supported this substantiation.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I don't know. It seems rather unprecedented to me. After all, when has the US government ever intentionally lied before to further their own agenda?

 

[MobBoss]

I don't know. It seems rather unprecedented to me. After all, when has the US government ever intentionally lied before to further their own agenda?

The logic being if it lied, say 50 years ago, it must be lying today?

Good logic.

 

[JollyRoger]

The logic being if it lied, say 50 years ago, it must be lying today?

Good logic.

So you admit that it is logic to assume that, say, someone who committed a crime 20+ years ago will commit a crime today?

 

[Formaldehyde]

The logic being if it lied, say 50 years ago, it must be lying today?

The "logic" being that the last time the US government "lied" was 50 years ago? Are you completely forgetting about the GWB adminstration by any chance, much less the Obama one, or any other administration in our so-called illustrious history?

Good logic.

Indeed!

 

[Skwink]

The "logic" being that the last time the US government "lied" was 50 years ago? Are you completely forgetting about the GWB adminstration by any chance, much less the Obama one, or any other administration in our so-called illustrious history?

Indeed!

What did GWB lie about? Give me some pure evidence there was a lie.

 

[El_Machinae]

So you admit that it is logic to assume that, say, someone who committed a crime 20+ years ago will commit a crime today?

Well, the government is an organisation that, at best, encourages and coddles lying. The institution can be suspected, but each new person in the institution can be honest or dishonest. Previous ill deeds are not the moral responsibility of current members, even thought the institution has moral responsibility.

That's quite different from a specific person who has previously shown poor taste and whether they're likely to be criminal in the future. The same person continues the burden of previous deeds.

By comparison, the Biblical god is an entity that orders the slaughtering of babies and who orders women to sexually assault specific men. Ostensibly, if this same entity is around today, it continues to be the same odious entity that once tortured an entire nation's first born just to flex his muscles for a Pharaoh.

Compare that to, say, the Catholic Church. Historically, the CC has done some decently wicked things, such as encouraging the slaughter of apostates and heathen. However, that's a sin of the institution. There's no reason why we should predict current priests and bishops of wanting to encourage such barbarity. They're not responsible for those misdeeds, except to prevent their institution drifting that way again.

 

[MobBoss]

So you admit that it is logic to assume that, say, someone who committed a crime 20+ years ago will commit a crime today?

The holes in your logic here are gaping.

I think the initial crime so terrible that it doesnt matter whether he is reformed or not.

Secondly, it seems you want to equate the changes in the military and government since the '70s are somehow comparative with the changes a single person might face in 20 years. I think that comparison more than a bit silly, not to mention, lacking.

 

[JollyRoger]

Secondly, it seems you want to equate the changes in the military and government since the '70s are somehow comparative with the changes a single person might face in 20 years. I think that comparison more than a bit silly, not to mention, lacking.

I agree. It seems that it would be far easier for an individual to change than an institution. Just look at how people can make significant changes for the better in a short period of time by espousing faith in some deity or another.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What did GWB lie about? Give me some pure evidence there was a lie.

So it is your contention the GWB administration never lied about anything the entire 8 years of its tenure?

Should we start with these ten made by GWB himself?

Or would you prefer a video montage?


Link to video.

Or how about this count of 935 false statements by the Bush administration to get us into the Iraq War:


Link to video.

All US government administrations have lied. But the GWB adminitration turned it into an art form.

 

[MobBoss]

I agree. It seems that it would be far easier for an individual to change than an institution.

Hardly. Leopards dont change their spots, and in the governments case, it less they change spots rather than entire groups of leopards.

@Form. I think his point was GWB didnt lie nearly as much as he was accused of. Which I think is an entirely fair point.

 

[JollyRoger]

Hardly. Leopards dont change their spots, and in the governments case, it less they change spots rather than entire groups of leopards.

Do you have evidence thatthe Lockerbie guy has committed a crime since his release? Are you saying man is no more capable of positive change than an animal?