London Calling!

[MobBoss]

My work does not involve any foreign travel so I don't get overseas very often. I have never been to London, but am maneuvering for a business trip to London in June. I won't know though until early May. I'm planning anyway. I don't know much about London and am planning to add 5 or 6 days to the three business part to explore things.

I have several questions:

How easy is it to get around and see the sights from a single hotel base? Can I count on taxis or the subway if I'm not pushed for time? How expensive are taxis?

Is a day trip to Paris by train feasible?

Is there an easy way to see sights outside of London on a day trip basis? Which ones are close enough to be easy? Which ones might be worth it if I stayed the night? How does one get their without a car?

So far, hotels I've looked at in downtown seem pricey (in the $300+ a night range) which is fine for a night or two, but do you have any suggestions for hotels that are nice, well located, and in the $175-$250 range.

I am also open to restaurant ideas and other thoughts that those with experience in London may have.

Thanks!

My 23 year old daughter went on a month vacation to London and didn't enjoy it at all. She said the people there were very rude, and often hostile towards her. She even got groped on the train....twice.

However, she and her friend spent a weekend in Paris and said it was amazing. They went to the Louvre and really enjoyed it, but the crowds were pretty bad. However, she did say that the people in Paris were far and away more pleasant than the English, which I thought was odd. Apparently, the powers that be recognized that Paris was getting a bad rep in regards to tourists and over the last several years there has been a concerted effort to approve that. Apparently they have.

 

[sophie]

My 23 year old daughter went on a month vacation to London and didn't enjoy it at all. She said the people there were very rude, and often hostile towards her. She even got groped on the train....twice.

However, she and her friend spent a weekend in Paris and said it was amazing. They went to the Louvre and really enjoyed it, but the crowds were pretty bad. However, she did say that the people in Paris were far and away more pleasant than the English, which I thought was odd. Apparently, the powers that be recognized that Paris was getting a bad rep in regards to tourists and over the last several years there has been a concerted effort to approve that. Apparently they have.

Definitely contrary to my experience.

 

[Birdjaguar]

My 23 year old daughter went on a month vacation to London and didn't enjoy it at all. She said the people there were very rude, and often hostile towards her. She even got groped on the train....twice.

However, she and her friend spent a weekend in Paris and said it was amazing. They went to the Louvre and really enjoyed it, but the crowds were pretty bad. However, she did say that the people in Paris were far and away more pleasant than the English, which I thought was odd. Apparently, the powers that be recognized that Paris was getting a bad rep in regards to tourists and over the last several years there has been a concerted effort to approve that. Apparently they have.

Maybe it was a language problem...

I'm not too worried about rude behavior and will just roll with the punches. Hostile, though, seems a bit out of place. I am sorry for her bad experience.

 

[MobBoss]

Definitely contrary to my experience.

Are you a woman?

Maybe it was a language problem...

I'm not too worried about rude behavior and will just roll with the punches. Hostile, though, seems a bit out of place. I am sorry for her bad experience.

The gist I got of it is that she is a very happy and outgoing person - which apparently can be taken as a rude and obnoxious tourist by Brit standards.

 

[Camikaze]

It can happen anywhere. It's definitely not something peculiar to London, though being a big city it's more likely than in some small touristy town. The Paris CBD is also quite separate from the tourist sites, so you're probably going to run into more businesspeople who think they have something better to do than be friendly to a tourist when wandering London. Certainly some cities have a worse reputation than others (such as Paris having a worse reputation than London), but that's built on a larger sample size, and there can still always be exceptions to the rule.

 

[sophie]

Are you a woman?

Does that matter in this circumstance? It's not a case of me having great experiences in both cities. Having lived in London for a number of months I found Londoners to be, for the most part, your typical big city people. They've been conditioned to disregard anybody not immediately relevant to them personally, to regard strangers with skepticism, and to move with a purpose. This can be seen as standoffish or rude to people who don't have big city (meaning New York, Chicago, and the like) experience. It can absolutely be unsettling the first time you're walking around a big city and watch people literally looking straight through you with morose soulless eyes. But Londoners can also be rather pleasant and inviting if you meet them in the right circumstance.

Parisians, by contrast, I found to be quite rude and standoffish. Maybe it's because I was a man with a very American accent, who knows. But even trying to speak French with them, they really came off as rude and unpleasant. Really did not like Paris. At all.

My points are:
a) If she did London and then Paris, it's very likely that she got the "big city" culture shock while in London and so interpreted people behaving like big-city residents as "rude", and then went to Paris, saw the same kind of behavior but at this point was accustomed to it and so had a better experience in Paris.
b) It's kind of ridiculous to write off an entire city after 3-5 days worth of experience.
c) Groping happens everywhere. It's not a "London" thing. You should hear some of the horror stories I've gotten from friends who have traveled through Italy.

 

[MobBoss]

Does that matter in this circumstance? It's not a case of me having great experiences in both cities. Having lived in London for a number of months I found Londoners to be, for the most part, your typical big city people. They've been conditioned to disregard anybody not immediately relevant to them personally, to regard strangers with skepticism, and to move with a purpose. This can be seen as standoffish or rude to people who don't have big city (meaning New York, Chicago, and the like) experience. It can absolutely be unsettling the first time you're walking around a big city and watch people literally looking straight through you with morose soulless eyes. But Londoners can also be rather pleasant and inviting if you meet them in the right circumstance.

Parisians, by contrast, I found to be quite rude and standoffish. Maybe it's because I was a man with a very American accent, who knows. But even trying to speak French with them, they really came off as rude and unpleasant. Really did not like Paris. At all.

My points are:
a) If she did London and then Paris, it's very likely that she got the "big city" culture shock while in London and so interpreted people behaving like big-city residents are "rude", and then went to Paris, saw the same kind of behavior but at this point was accustomed to it and so had a better experience in Paris.
b) It's kind of ridiculous to write off an entire city after 3-5 days worth of experience.
c) Groping happens everywhere. It's not a "London" thing. You should hear some of the horror stories I've gotten from friends who have traveled through Italy.

Actually, yes, it matters. Women are often treated differently than men.

Its not the 'big city' thing. My daughter hangs out in Seattle all the time, and while that's not big like London is big, it's not small town either.

And she wasn't there for only 3 to 5 days...she was there over a month.

 

[sophie]

Actually, yes, it matters. Women are often treated differently than men.

No I get that. But I think that if it was a pure case of "women are treated differently" it would more likely have been a case of me having a great experience in both places and not having any problems with rudeness. Instead I got the opposite. Good experience in London and bad experience in Paris. It's just a case of bad luck on her side I think. London is a fantastic city. Which was my point. It's ridiculous to write off an entire city after one bad experience.

 

[MobBoss]

No I get that. But I think that if it was a pure case of "women are treated differently" it would more likely have been a case of me having a great experience in both places and not having any problems with rudeness. Instead I got the opposite. Good experience in London and bad experience in Paris. It's just a case of bad luck on her side I think. London is a fantastic city. Which was my point. It's ridiculous to write off an entire city after one bad experience.

Well, her friend was there with a boyfriend for 6 months and had the same experience.

And with so many places to visit across the world with only so much money to throw at it, I would have to disagree about writing a city off based on a singular experience.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Errmmmm...Seattle seems to have a population of around 650,000. I'm sure the surrounding suburbia at least doubles that, but that's still not just "not big like London". That's not big, period. Seattle is a great place and I really liked it, but it has hardly any big city vibe, in my opinion.

 

[Camikaze]

There's a difference between taking an experience into account and writing a city off. I didn't enjoy Tirana at all, and it's impossible not to think about that when considering whether I'd visit the city again. But if other people told me it was great and their experience was entirely enjoyable, I'd also take that into account. Compare to, say, Bucharest, which I also didn't enjoy. I've written that city off not because of my experience alone, but because everyone I've spoken to who has been there shares the opinion.

Given the sheer mass of people who find London to be one of the best tourist destinations in the world, and given the seeming abnormality of the experience you describe (cf people's lack of surprise if the same thing happened in Italy), I'd find it difficult to rely on one or two experiences to write it off. I suppose if you're only ever going to go to 2 or 3 cities in your life, you can pare down the list more ruthlessly, but that's more your misfortune in having a lack of holiday time than the fault of the city.

 

[MobBoss]

Errmmmm...Seattle seems to have a population of around 650,000. I'm sure the surrounding suburbia at least doubles that, but that's still not just "not big like London". That's not big, period. Seattle is a great place and I really liked it, but it has hardly any big city vibe, in my opinion.

Have you even been to Seattle?

And the Seattle metro area has a population of about 3.6 million and is the 13th largest metro area in the USA. It's a bit more than a quarter of what the London area is.

Like I said, its not huge, but it sure as hell isn't small.

 

[Flying Pig]

Parisians, by contrast, I found to be quite rude and standoffish. Maybe it's because I was a man with a very American accent, who knows. But even trying to speak French with them, they really came off as rude and unpleasant. Really did not like Paris. At all.

I liked Paris a lot, but found the same with language - it may be a cultural thing in that what would be called 'rude' in Britain is their normal way of talking, but I often felt like I was a bit of an annoyance even when I was trying to buy things or order food.

 

[Borachio]

I think the "rudeness" is peculiar to Paris. The rest of France isn't like that at all.

Maybe it's the legacy of the communards, and all that. Parisians just aren't inclined to kow-tow like other service workers are supposed to.

"Yes, sir. Certainly, sir. Three bags full, sir."

 

[EnglishEdward]

My 23 year old daughter went on a month vacation to London and didn't enjoy it at all. She said the people there were very rude, and often hostile towards her. She even got groped on the train....twice.

My apologies.

 

[Borachio]

Yeah. You keep your hands to yourself, next time you're in London, Mr Edward. Or should that be Mr "Hands" Edward?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Experience is mostly subjective. So much of it depends upon the specific interactions one has with other specific individuals. A good cabby vs a bad one can make all the difference when forming an opinion. It's the people you come in contact with that make all the difference. I would be reluctant to say most Londoners are rude or Parisians are snooty based on a few days. I've spent enough time in big cities Like NY, LA, and Chicago to appreciate their different personalities. The first time I was in Paris I was 16 and I was surprised at how many friendly women there were walking around in the evening. Ever since, I've always thought of Paris as a friendly city.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Have you even been to Seattle?

And the Seattle metro area has a population of about 3.6 million and is the 13th largest metro area in the USA. It's a bit more than a quarter of what the London area is.

Like I said, its not huge, but it sure as hell isn't small.

Not lately, but I lived in Bremerton for most of a year. As I said, I like Seattle.

So the metro area population is more than the doubling that I said, but the 650,000 population for Seattle is from the census of 2010 plus some reasonable estimated growth from the city website. The thing about 'metro areas' is that no matter how much suburbia you sling around you don't really get that big city vibe without an actual big city. The LA metro area is between five and ten times the size of Seattle's and it still doesn't have a big city vibe, because it is just fifty miles of sub with no urb.

 

[sophie]

Not lately, but I lived in Bremerton for most of a year. As I said, I like Seattle.

So the metro area population is more than the doubling that I said, but the 650,000 population for Seattle is from the census of 2010 plus some reasonable estimated growth from the city website. The thing about 'metro areas' is that no matter how much suburbia you sling around you don't really get that big city vibe without an actual big city. The LA metro area is between five and ten times the size of Seattle's and it still doesn't have a big city vibe, because it is just fifty miles of sub with no urb.

Yeah, this. I've been to San Jose, San Francisco, New York, London and LA. It's not about population size it's about "city-ness" and urban culture. New York, London, and San Francisco have that sort of city mentality. People aren't nice. They have places to be and acting polite or stopping are just invitations for problems. First time experience places like this makes you feel like a salmon swimming upstream or a sardine out of sync with the rest of the school. Everybody turns one way but you didn't get the memo and ram headlong into a million fish who don't even know you exist. You stop to say sorry or excuse me and they're already a half a block down the street. That's just the way things are. You go to San Jose, which is a solid 200,000 population greater than SF, or LA which is the 2nd largest city in the US and it's simply not the same. Things are more laid back, relaxed. These are massive metro areas, but I wouldn't call them big cities like I would NY or Chicago or London. They simply don't have the same mentality.

 

[MobBoss]

Not lately, but I lived in Bremerton for most of a year. As I said, I like Seattle.

So the metro area population is more than the doubling that I said, but the 650,000 population for Seattle is from the census of 2010 plus some reasonable estimated growth from the city website. The thing about 'metro areas' is that no matter how much suburbia you sling around you don't really get that big city vibe without an actual big city. The LA metro area is between five and ten times the size of Seattle's and it still doesn't have a big city vibe, because it is just fifty miles of sub with no urb.

Yeah, this. I've been to San Jose, San Francisco, New York, London and LA. It's not about population size it's about "city-ness" and urban culture. New York, London, and San Francisco have that sort of city mentality. People aren't nice. They have places to be and acting polite or stopping are just invitations for problems. First time experience places like this makes you feel like a salmon swimming upstream or a sardine out of sync with the rest of the school. Everybody turns one way but you didn't get the memo and ram headlong into a million fish who don't even know you exist. You stop to say sorry or excuse me and they're already a half a block down the street. That's just the way things are. You go to San Jose, which is a solid 200,000 population greater than SF, or LA which is the 2nd largest city in the US and it's simply not the same. Things are more laid back, relaxed. These are massive metro areas, but I wouldn't call them big cities like I would NY or Chicago or London. They simply don't have the same mentality.

Heh, you guys haven't been to downtown Seattle in a long while I can tell. Downtown Seattle is now exactly what Owen just described.