joycem10
Deity
From what i remember Osgiliath straddles the Anduin creating an East Osgiliath and a West Osgiliath. KInda hard to implement in game.
LOTR: War of the Ring ver. 0.9
- Thread starter quasidemo
- Start date
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Actually, Osgilliath spanned the Anduin, and had a huge tower in its midst-which also doubled as a bridge between the city's Eastern and Western halfs. In its day, Osgilliath was also the capital of Gondor-until its ruin.
The problem, if you don't mind me saying so Quasi, is that at the time of the Lord of the Rings you can't have Osgilliath as a city-as it was devoid of any civilian population!! My suggestion would be to make it two forts instead-one on each side of the river. If you could also couple this with making said river crossable at this point, then you could create some intriguing strategic possibilities. (i.e. you could make the Anduin MUCH wider both above and below the Rauros falls, and have it narrow at key places-such as where Frodo and Sam crossed, Cair Andros, Osgilliath and the Mouths of the Anduin. This would force both sides to focus their attacks in just a few key places-much as they did in the actual book!!! Making Pelargir, East and West Osgilliath and Cair Andros VP locations would make this even more the case!!!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
The problem, if you don't mind me saying so Quasi, is that at the time of the Lord of the Rings you can't have Osgilliath as a city-as it was devoid of any civilian population!! My suggestion would be to make it two forts instead-one on each side of the river. If you could also couple this with making said river crossable at this point, then you could create some intriguing strategic possibilities. (i.e. you could make the Anduin MUCH wider both above and below the Rauros falls, and have it narrow at key places-such as where Frodo and Sam crossed, Cair Andros, Osgilliath and the Mouths of the Anduin. This would force both sides to focus their attacks in just a few key places-much as they did in the actual book!!! Making Pelargir, East and West Osgilliath and Cair Andros VP locations would make this even more the case!!!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
quasidemo
Chieftain
Aussie, you're clearly a devoted fan of LOTR and Civ. 
I appreciate your emphatic defense of details and conjecture in implementing certain elements of the story. I think some of your ideas would be really interesting in a "zoomed-in" LOTR scenario. I actually think the way to cover LOTR is to make two or three scenarios. The Fellowship of the Ring events were very different from the events in Two Towers and on... it went from focusing on individual growth to much more geopolitical relations. So I definitely would support the argument that the essences of each third of the trilogy is different enough to merit its own scenario. In which case, you'd have the kind of narrower scope in which to implement a different flavor of Civ, as your suggestions and some of the others seem to me.
I take issue with the "Larger than Life" point. In my scenario, they *are* larger than life, they're King units. And not just plain Civ King units, they've actually got unique abilities without becoming wildly cartoonish.
And to go back to the issues with Iron that joycem raised... I playtested the Elves taking out the Iron in Mordor and Isengard a long time ago and the effect was negligible, though fun (I recommend it). Isengard pumps out more Uruk-hai rather than pike or swordsmen and Mordor more orcs, but Mordor quickly rebuilds the road and takes out the Elvish bowman. If the Elves really could mysteriously appear in the heart of Mordor, it's no wonder they didn't do that. It's almost certainly a doomed endeavor.
The difficulty of getting Iron from the Dwarves is also a known "feature" to me. I think if you trade techs with the Dwarves for Iron they'll do it. And I'm glad to hear you say that this occurs only at higher difficulty levels... it makes things more, ahem... difficult.
zxe- I don't know about your missing post. I didn't know that posts could be deleted, if that's what happened to it.
NPC civs- Ok, I'll address this issue too. You'll notice that I keep NPC civs to a minimum to the chagrin of some, perhaps. Even the Wainriders I don't actually give their own civilization. They even have a UU to call their own and I didn't think they deserved to be an NPC civ. I'm fairly sure I wouldn't add a civilization for Rhun, but might plop a Barbarian camp there. I'll have to look up references to them to decide where and how many.
But this is non-negotiable in my mind. The NPC civs I have rise to the level where their involvement is vital to the framework of the story. Adding more NPC civs would be adding more noise than signal, in my view.
Thanks for the comments!
Ah and if you haven't already, I'd recommend playing this scenrio with any of the Howard Shore soundtracks in the background instead of the standard music. Adds atmosphere.
I appreciate your emphatic defense of details and conjecture in implementing certain elements of the story. I think some of your ideas would be really interesting in a "zoomed-in" LOTR scenario. I actually think the way to cover LOTR is to make two or three scenarios. The Fellowship of the Ring events were very different from the events in Two Towers and on... it went from focusing on individual growth to much more geopolitical relations. So I definitely would support the argument that the essences of each third of the trilogy is different enough to merit its own scenario. In which case, you'd have the kind of narrower scope in which to implement a different flavor of Civ, as your suggestions and some of the others seem to me. I take issue with the "Larger than Life" point. In my scenario, they *are* larger than life, they're King units. And not just plain Civ King units, they've actually got unique abilities without becoming wildly cartoonish.
And to go back to the issues with Iron that joycem raised... I playtested the Elves taking out the Iron in Mordor and Isengard a long time ago and the effect was negligible, though fun (I recommend it). Isengard pumps out more Uruk-hai rather than pike or swordsmen and Mordor more orcs, but Mordor quickly rebuilds the road and takes out the Elvish bowman. If the Elves really could mysteriously appear in the heart of Mordor, it's no wonder they didn't do that. It's almost certainly a doomed endeavor.
The difficulty of getting Iron from the Dwarves is also a known "feature" to me. I think if you trade techs with the Dwarves for Iron they'll do it. And I'm glad to hear you say that this occurs only at higher difficulty levels... it makes things more, ahem... difficult.
zxe- I don't know about your missing post. I didn't know that posts could be deleted, if that's what happened to it.
NPC civs- Ok, I'll address this issue too. You'll notice that I keep NPC civs to a minimum to the chagrin of some, perhaps. Even the Wainriders I don't actually give their own civilization. They even have a UU to call their own and I didn't think they deserved to be an NPC civ. I'm fairly sure I wouldn't add a civilization for Rhun, but might plop a Barbarian camp there. I'll have to look up references to them to decide where and how many.
But this is non-negotiable in my mind. The NPC civs I have rise to the level where their involvement is vital to the framework of the story. Adding more NPC civs would be adding more noise than signal, in my view.
Thanks for the comments!
Ah and if you haven't already, I'd recommend playing this scenrio with any of the Howard Shore soundtracks in the background instead of the standard music. Adds atmosphere.
quasidemo
Chieftain
Weasel Op said:Well I must be doing something wrong, I played as Gondor and suffered a humiating defeat in 7 turns
They don't call it the "durbatuluk-er" for nothing.
I've fared worse. Once I had Frodo attack the Balrog. Not a good match.
I still think that Quasidemo got it right with this scenario. It'd be nice to have a whacking great all-frills-included one - but that's what's gestating with LotM. This scenario works absolutely fine with the direction it took - the big picture, not getting bogged down in details. I might add that it also benefits from really good writing, which isn't something you always see in scenarios - nicely rewritten labels, proper civilopedia entries, and so on. That's the kind of thing which adds atmosphere and makes it feel like a proper scenario rather than just a map.
Greenlocke
Northern Hermit
Aussie_Lurker said:
This is a great idea!
The current setup just isn't really that realistic - battle-zone wise, because Mordor doesn't concentrate on Osgiliath. Don't get me wrong, it is fine the way it is, and I understand that you want to ensure the scenario from looking 'zoomed in', but the river should be a real obstacle. The orcs don't even lose movement for crossing the river! They just kept going south into the forest. Making a coast-river would ensure that the baddies MUST attack those key points. In another map-related situation...
What is that pass between the westfold and gondor? I have never heard of it. Is it in the literature?
The Omega
Completely Insane
I hadn't heard of it either.......certainly made it hard to fight when you had to defend that point as well as fighting Mordor.zxe said:What is that pass between the westfold and gondor? I have never heard of it. Is it in the literature?
WildWeazel
Carthago Creanda Est
quasidemo said:
The Omega
Completely Insane
Huh? What's dat supposed ta be meaning?Weasel Op said:
WildWeazel
Carthago Creanda Est
I was subtly suggesting that quasidemo should follow his own advice and make 3 scenarios, one for each book
The Omega
Completely Insane
Hmm......that sounds like a good idea........quasi, you should listen to Weasel Op!Weasel Op said:I was subtly suggesting that quasidemo should follow his own advice and make 3 scenarios, one for each book
quasidemo
Chieftain
The Omega said:Hmm......that sounds like a good idea........quasi, you should listen to Weasel Op!
Hehe... thanks, but I dunno if I could muster the determination to get through that.
Maybe after LOTM comes out that will give us a lot of cool tools to use for such scenarios.
The Omega
Completely Insane
You know, I've been waiting for that mod to come out since before I registered to this site. Still doesn't look any closer to me.quasidemo said:
Nice scenario. While I'd like to see a huge scenario with all the bells and whistles, this doesn't take long to load and is fairly simple to grasp and play.
I've only won as Gondor so far, with only 6 turns left....I'll narrate my game story style:
Osgiliath falls to Mordor, despite it's reinforcement by the Arches of Minas Tirith, and the West Fold fall to Isengard.
Frodo siezes the Ring in the Shire, and accompanied by Gandalf (After gaining permission from the Elves to travel in their land) travels to Moria where Gandalf easily defeats the Orcs gaurding Moria, but in the battle with the Balrog accidentally destroys the road through the mountain. (Hehe, whoops, sorry you guys) Frodo opts to take the shorter (If more dangerous) route through the Misty Mountains by the Gap of Rohan rather than travel north again past Rivendell.
The horses of Rohan are saddled by the warriors of Gondor, and Knights are sent forth from all of Gondor to the East to Minas Tirith and Osgiliath, and to the west, to the Westfold to aid the Rohirrim in their failing battle. The Knights are hurts in an abortive battle against the Uruk-Hai in the Westfold, and retire to lick their wounds. A band of Knights is sent off to escort the Fellowship to Gondor.
Gandalf and Frodo defeat a band of wandering orcs, then turn east to the Gap or Rohan after travelling south for many weeks. There, the wizardrey of Gandalf proves the deciding factor in the battle, and the Westfold falls to the Knights of Gondor. Frodo and Gandalf continue on their journey, this time well gaurded.
The Fellowship enter Gondor, and proceed to Minas Tirith, where a great army of Knights and Pikeman is amassing.
The Knights of Gondor attack Osgiliath several times, and the great leader Aragorn arises, and the Knights of Gondor flock to his banner, defeating the Orcs and overruning Osgiliath.
With the captured trebuchets from Osgiliath and the trebuchets of Minas Tirith along with the Knights of Gondor, Aragorn siezes Minas Morgor, while the Dwarves seize Morannon.
After a desparate battle, the Ring is thrown into Mount Doom. Mount Doom erupts, destroying much of Saurons Army. The End of the Third Age.
What do you guys think?
I've only won as Gondor so far, with only 6 turns left....I'll narrate my game story style:
Osgiliath falls to Mordor, despite it's reinforcement by the Arches of Minas Tirith, and the West Fold fall to Isengard.
Frodo siezes the Ring in the Shire, and accompanied by Gandalf (After gaining permission from the Elves to travel in their land) travels to Moria where Gandalf easily defeats the Orcs gaurding Moria, but in the battle with the Balrog accidentally destroys the road through the mountain. (Hehe, whoops, sorry you guys) Frodo opts to take the shorter (If more dangerous) route through the Misty Mountains by the Gap of Rohan rather than travel north again past Rivendell.
The horses of Rohan are saddled by the warriors of Gondor, and Knights are sent forth from all of Gondor to the East to Minas Tirith and Osgiliath, and to the west, to the Westfold to aid the Rohirrim in their failing battle. The Knights are hurts in an abortive battle against the Uruk-Hai in the Westfold, and retire to lick their wounds. A band of Knights is sent off to escort the Fellowship to Gondor.
Gandalf and Frodo defeat a band of wandering orcs, then turn east to the Gap or Rohan after travelling south for many weeks. There, the wizardrey of Gandalf proves the deciding factor in the battle, and the Westfold falls to the Knights of Gondor. Frodo and Gandalf continue on their journey, this time well gaurded.
The Fellowship enter Gondor, and proceed to Minas Tirith, where a great army of Knights and Pikeman is amassing.
The Knights of Gondor attack Osgiliath several times, and the great leader Aragorn arises, and the Knights of Gondor flock to his banner, defeating the Orcs and overruning Osgiliath.
With the captured trebuchets from Osgiliath and the trebuchets of Minas Tirith along with the Knights of Gondor, Aragorn siezes Minas Morgor, while the Dwarves seize Morannon.
After a desparate battle, the Ring is thrown into Mount Doom. Mount Doom erupts, destroying much of Saurons Army. The End of the Third Age.
What do you guys think?
The Omega
Completely Insane
Pretty good , elrohir. Whenever I've tried as Gondor, some random enemy suddenly appears and kill Frodo, taking the ring, and then winning the game.
Yeah, it took a couple tries before I really got anywhere. The secret is to get Knights, their the only really good unit available to Gondor. (They should hae a unique unit, like the Tower Gaurds or soemthing) You'll have to trade some technology to Rohan for the horses. (Or build a road to the second iron in Gondor and trade it to them for horses)
Whenever I play as the elves Gondor just tries to send Frodo in near Minas Morgul and he get's killed....
Whenever I play as the elves Gondor just tries to send Frodo in near Minas Morgul and he get's killed....
The Omega
Completely Insane
Ah, I was lucky when I played as the elves. I guarded Frodo with my bowmen, and he almost reached Mt. Doom when he was killed. Of course, I killed the guy that had killed my guy and was about to reach Mt. Doom when BOOM!!! Mt. Doom erupted, destroying the ring. Of course, instead of makeing me win, the ring reapeared in my capital. I got the ring on a boat, sent it to Valinor, and used the eagles to send it directly to Mt. Doom, making me winner!Elrohir said:
WildWeazel
Carthago Creanda Est
The Omega said:You know, I've been waiting for that mod to come out since before I registered to this site. Still doesn't look any closer to me.
Trust me- it's coming.
But seriously, a scenario for each book would be awesome. We (LOTM) aren't planning to do anything like that AFAIK, but the mod should provide some good ideas and resources.The Omega said:Ah, I was lucky when I played as the elves. I guarded Frodo with my bowmen, and he almost reached Mt. Doom when he was killed. Of course, I killed the guy that had killed my guy and was about to reach Mt. Doom when BOOM!!! Mt. Doom erupted, destroying the ring. Of course, instead of makeing me win, the ring reapeared in my capital. I got the ring on a boat, sent it to Valinor, and used the eagles to send it directly to Mt. Doom, making me winner!
Heh, I was escorting Frodo too, with Elrond and two bowmen on one side, and Galadriel and another bowman on the other side, with him in the middle, but he got killed by some orcs....
quasidemo
Chieftain
The Omega said:Ah, I was lucky when I played as the elves. I guarded Frodo with my bowmen, and he almost reached Mt. Doom when he was killed. Of course, I killed the guy that had killed my guy and was about to reach Mt. Doom when BOOM!!! Mt. Doom erupted, destroying the ring. Of course, instead of makeing me win, the ring reapeared in my capital. I got the ring on a boat, sent it to Valinor, and used the eagles to send it directly to Mt. Doom, making me winner!
Hey... that's actually something I have never playtested. Thanks, I've learned something new today.
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