[GS] Māori Discussion Thread

[Eagle Pursuit]

Prediction: you will hardly ever encounter the Maori in game because the AI will almost always lose their starting settler to barbarians when it disembarks.

 

[Giskler]

I'm talking about Great Works that have already been generated by a Great Writer.

I assume they will be placed in buildings with slots that can hold any Great Work and if no such slots are available, then Kupe will order a book burning festival to take place.

Edit: Spelling.

 

[nzcamel]

Prediction: you will hardly ever encounter the Maori in game because the AI will almost always lose their starting settler to barbarians when it disembarks.

I can see a buff coming up a month after release where the first Maori settler is also a Toa

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The Firaxis artists are gushing about Kupe on Twitter. He does look really terrific.

 

[Turrdy]

No, it only includes bonus resources like stone and rice.

Follow-up-question: does that mean you can't build districts and/or wonders on such tiles (and therefore behaving like luxuries/strategic resources)?

 

[pgm123]

My guess is the design motivation was to create a unit that you would stick with through the gunpowder era, bypassing Musketmen. Similar to the Civ 5 Impi.

Fwiw, I don't think they said it replaces anything, so it presumably doesn't upgrade either.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Follow-up-question: does that mean you can't build districts and/or wonders on such tiles (and therefore behaving like luxuries/strategic resources)?

That's what I would assume. Place your cities accordingly.

 

[679x]

I'm going as far as to say that this is gonna be the coolest civ in Civilization 6.

 

[humble serf]

I understand not being able to harvest resources, and I agree that is a steep yet balancing penalty. However I don't understand why they can't have great writers? I mean, beyond just trying to balance the civ. Is there any cultural reason the Maori can't have great writers? Beyond the fact they never wrote anything before the arrival of europeans? But if that is the only reason that could apply to most Native Americans too right? But they are able to get great writers? Just a little confused.

The Maori have a (potentially) OP amphitheatre, so removing writers and slots for writing seems to be more for balance than realism.

I guess that's a good point, they aren't so much OP as they are OP in niche situations - like this one with watery map and lucky start or Hungary with CS's near by, Idk I still think they're pretty damned strong though

I don't think they seem situational -- their only bonuses which require water are +1 food to fishing boats (which seems strong) and culture bombs on fishing boats (which seems weak). They'd still get full use out of everything else even if they somehow ended up deep inland on a pangaea map. Which is practically impossible, given the embarked start.

Hills, mountains, and ice are not defined as Features in the game - they are Terrain. The only impassible Features up to this point have been certain Natural Wonders.

Volcanoes are going to be generated as features "on top" of mountains by the map scripts, so if mountains and ice don't count then volcanoes are potentially the only "impassable" features.

 

[Amrunril]

The sea start is a really interesting ability to evaluate. In a direct sense, I don't think it's as big a change as it initially seems. Obviously, your first few turns will be different, but once you settle, you'll be in pretty much exactly the same spot as a civ that settled half a dozen turns earlier and opened by producing a builder. The potentially more important difference will be in city placement, and we don't know enough details about the behind the scenes mechanics to be sure of how this will work. Can the Maori count on finding a resource rich capitol location (as other civs can)? Are they likely to end up closer than usual to other civs' start positions? These factors aren't part of the civ's "official" abilities, but they'll make a much bigger difference in the long term that the handful of turns actually spent at sea.

In the big picture then, I think the Maori can best be thought of as a civ with a unique start bias, coupled with early seafaring, substantial bonuses to forest yields, and altered culture gameplay. This certainly seems like a distinctive and potentially strong civ, but it may not be as dramatic an outlier in either of these dimensions as people are assuming.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Fwiw, I don't think they said it replaces anything, so it presumably doesn't upgrade either.

Other UUs that don't replace a generic unit upgrade. There's no reason why the Toa wouldn't.

 

[Siptah]

Will the Maori starting bonuses change with game speed? Having 2 pop and a builder after 5 turns is outright impossible on epic and marathon.

 

[Turrdy]

That's what I would assume. Place your cities accordingly.

Oh well, another drawback then...

 

[liv]

Hmm Norway may not be my favourite after this

 

[nzcamel]

Will the Maori starting bonuses change with game speed? Having 2 pop and a builder after 5 turns is outright impossible on epic and marathon.

Don't see why. Their bonuses are like any Civs - a specific advantage that is offset by other Civ's having different advantages that you don't.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Hmm Norway may not be my favourite after this

They should give Norway a free Longship to start with so they have the ability to snipe the Maori settler in the water if they can find it.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Prediction: you will hardly ever encounter the Maori in game because the AI will almost always lose their starting settler to barbarians when it disembarks.

I was predicting lots of Polar Maori and Robinson Crusoe Maori civs from the AI, but this is an even dire, and potentially accurate, prediction.

You can't even stack the Settler and Warrior in the ocean, so the AI would need to coordinate their landing, which it is difficult to believe it would be taught to do.

 

[Victoria]

But still they dont have any Science uniqe thing

As someone who has played about 100 free inquiry games.... THIS civ is made for it. My builder can go 4MP across ocean from turn 1...its a golden age every time and that really strong early production is going to get you there fast. If unaware Free inquiry = tonnes of early science.

Give me the Maori Battalion and I'll conquer the world".

One suspects people do not appreciate just how warlike the maori were/are

So to make it clear out there... The Maori turned up in NZ where there were no mammals except a bat. But there was a 15 foot turkey called a Moa. A few hundred years later they have eaten all the Moa and grown to cover NZ (apart from Fiordland due to sandflies) and they get all warlike and attack each other (yum). Maori's like a good fight and it gives you Mana. This is a leetle bit different to a lot of indigenous peoples.

 

[PhilBowles]

Agree re the Pas.
Do not agree re the Haka. The British are on the record as saying they met no fiercer hand to hand fighters than the Maori anywhere. You're in your trench the early morning before a battle, it's cold & wet; and then you hear the haka start up from somewhere near by. It would send shivers down your spine (especially if the wahine parts were included). Morale is a huge deal in warfare; and the haka signalled to you that you were about to face someone who had no care for their own safety.
Field Marshall Erwin Rommel said in WWII quote" Give me the Maori Battalion and I'll conquer the world".

All of that demonstrates the Maori were good fighters - nothing to do with the haka. I can't find any reference in a quick search to the haka having been used as an effective weapon.

As important as morale is in combat, it isn't represented in Civ games and it leaves a bad taste that they resort to caricatures by giving the Maori a bonus for it and no one else. The function of the haka was primarily ritualistic rather than to attack opposing forces' morale, unlike a battle cry - Wikipedia describes it as part of warriors' 'battle preparations'. While also noting that treating it as a war dance is inaccurate: "According to Kāretu, the haka has been "erroneously defined by generations of uninformed as 'war dances'".

Cook, for one, doesn't appear to have been particularly intimidated, writing: " in short nothing is omittd which can render a human shape frightful and deformd, which I suppose they think terrible".

 

[Giskler]

They should give Norway a free Longship to start with so they have the ability to snipe the Maori settler in the water if they can find it.

It's sad that Norway is one of my least favourite civs to play in Civ 6. We finally get represented and end up being garbage tier