[GS] Māori Discussion Thread

[Canterbury]

Remember the teaser image we were all stumped on?

One of the cities shown in the First Look video, and probably the Māori civ capital, is "Te Hokianga-nui-a-Kupe", meaning "the great returning (place) of Kupe" (IMO they could've just shortened the name to "Te Hokianga", but that's beside the point). It's also the Māori full name of Hokianga Harbour. I'd wager a guess that the teaser/leader background image is of Hokianga Harbour itself, or at least based on it. It's in the Northland region of New Zealand, and the full background looks consistent with that area.

 

[Leathaface]

Maybe they'll be able to farm on hills sooner than everyone else too...

Great idea. New cities would have a lot more potential space to place farms.

 

[God of Kings]

Remember the teaser image we were all stumped on?

One of the cities shown in the First Look video, and probably the Māori civ capital, is "Te Hokianga-nui-a-Kupe", meaning "the great returning (place) of Kupe" (IMO they could've just shortened the name to "Te Hokianga", but that's beside the point). It's also the Māori full name of Hokianga Harbour. I'd wager a guess that the teaser/leader background image is of Hokianga Harbour itself, or at least based on it. It's in the Northland region of New Zealand, and the full background looks consistent with that area.

He is among the few leaders to have his name as either a city name or a part of a city name. Poundmaker is another. And I'm not mentioning Alexander the Great who put his name on many of his cities.

 

[Arwon]

I cant wait to see how the Maori perform on Earth true-start maps. I can see them settling their first city in very ahistorical places.

I feel like gunning straight for the GBR will be the best move here.

Love the civ design overall. It does seem weird to me though, that the UU is so strong. Granted I'm no expert on Maori history, but there doesn't seem to be anything in their wikipedia page to suggest their military strength was comparable to Roman legions.

They did through sustained resistance force the British into an enduring treaty which is still in force today. That's no mean feat in terms of places targeted during the height of 19th century colonial rapaciousness.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

They did through sustained resistance force the British into an enduring treaty which is still in force today. That's no mean feat in terms of places targeted during the height of 19th century colonial rapaciousness.

Yeah, but making them as strong/stronger than a legion doesn't feel right. I think it would be a bit better fit if they were sorta a reverse bezerker and received bonuses to defense (or just had bonuses within their borders) and had weaker attacks as the Maori were fierce defenders but did not want (and likely would have been poor at) conquest of other lands.

 

[CivLuvah]

Besides my first post calling out that I had a hunch that it'll be the Māori, I haven't gotten to watch the First Look because I was busy with some schoolwork.

So now, here are my thoughts:
This is a great civ that uses probably the most unique mechanic for a civ so far: starting to settle from the sea.

Odd to see that Great Writers won't be available, probably because the Māori don't have a script? They have to do the same with the Inca as well if that's the case.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the music! I can't wait to hear more! Animations are great too.

And I just love the ethnic artsyle here. I can't wait to see the art styles of other civilizations.

Speaking of artstyles, I'm a bit confused as to what these waterways in the city are supposed to be. Are they docks or canals?

EDIT: Never mind about the OP thing. I read the entire thread until my post and it seems that the Māori aren't as OP as they seem.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Speaking of artstyles, I'm a bit confused as to what these waterways in the city are supposed to be. Are they docks or canals?

They're supposed to be docks graphically, but the docks can eventually be connected with other city centers I believe with a canal district.
Since the first city that they founded was surrounded on both sides it just made a canal on it's own without the district.

 

[God of Kings]

I wonder what would Kupe's trade delegation gift be.

Perhaps a jade "club?"

 

[bite]

He is among the few leaders to have his name as either a city name or a part of a city name. Poundmaker is another. And I'm not mentioning Alexander the Great who put his name on many of his cities.

Tooooo many of his cities, and made me research Macedonian history to get them all

 

[Arwon]

Odd to see that Great Writers won't be available, probably because the Māori don't have a script? They have to do the same with the Inca as well if that's the case.

While the lack of pre-European writing is certainly the justification, I think it's pretty clearly about enhancing the thematic play style. Stripping away great works from the amphitheatre lets them give far more power the replacement mechanic of gaining culture and faith from conserving a connection to nature, without it being unbalanced. Those are some big yields, it almost turns tile features into great works themselves.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

They're supposed to be docks graphically, but the docks can eventually be connected with other city centers I believe with a canal district.
Since the first city that they founded was surrounded on both sides it just made a canal on it's own without the district.

I think it's sort of a proto-canal. It can become a canal if it can be linked through to the next tile. Otherwise, it just kind of looks like a dockage.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think it's sort of a proto-canal. It can become a canal if it can be linked through to the next tile. Otherwise, it just kind of looks like a dockage.

I agree, but two docks on opposite sides connected does look like a mini canal without the needed district.

 

[Casualty of war]

If the Maori could make Great Writers they would be able to easily complete sub-Turn 150 Culture Victories. As is, they might be able to get a sub-100 Domination Victory with a swimming Horsemen rush. Three techs to Dead.

This civ is preposterous. If other civs aren't bolstered to match them, Maori will runaway rule.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

If the Maori could make Great Writers they would be able to easily complete sub-Turn 150 Culture Victories. As is, they might be able to get a sub-100 Domination Victory with a swimming Horsemen rush. Three techs to Dead.

This civ is preposterous. If other civs aren't bolstered to match them, Maori will runaway rule.

Unless they're on a Pangea Map, which might cramp their style considerably...

 

[nzcamel]

They did through sustained resistance force the British into an enduring treaty which is still in force today. That's no mean feat in terms of places targeted during the height of 19th century colonial rapaciousness.

The Treaty of Waitangi* was signed in the middle of the 19th century by the British to ward off the French's interest in setting up a colony in NZ. The Brit's weren't that interested in NZ except that they didn't want the French getting a foothold so close to Australia.

While not all Maori were on board, there was no break down in relations till long after that. And when it did happen; while a small amount of British troops got involved, it was more the NZ colonials (who had their own parliament long before Australia & Canada) who were really on the opposing side.

But yes, when push came to shove the Maori were incredibly adept at conflict, especially melee. Though make no mistake - they had firearms long before the landwars!

*The treaty was also never ratified by the NZ parliament, so is only enforce today where modern legislation refers to it directly.
Having said that, NZ can be proud that great efforts have been made since the 1970's to make restitutions to the Maori tribes for where they were wronged.

 

[Casualty of war]

Unless they're on a Pangea Map, which might cramp their style considerably...

They will always start near a coastal border of the Pangaea and know which way immediately to send all their armies or Scouts. No turns lost to misdirection or backtracking. Plus they can sail right up next to their first victim and settle on their doorstep with extra population to abate Loyalty issues.

 

[CivLuvah]

Quoted from the article below:

The game's developers are based in the US, but they said they worked with local New Zealand staff to researched the architecture and monuments, and worked with a professional ta moko artist to design the tattoos on Kupe's face.

"Research drives our decisions. We're not experts in New Zealand or Māori culture, so the more the learned the more we could accurately share and the more people could learn about the Māori story."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainme...lization-vi-launched-with-new-mori-characters

I am glad that they have done their due diligence, especially with the facial tattoos. I remember this forum was concerned about the lack of ta moko or getting it wrong.

Seems they learned a lot from the Cree controversy.

...Think it's prime time I went and see Moana...

That was basically the first thing on my mind when I saw the ship designs, and the fact that the woman in the toa historical moment picture looks almost exactly like Moana.

 

[acluewithout]

...does anyone think Maori are actually a small buff to Norway...? ...because now Norway will have more coastal cities to raid...?

Also. The initial settler raft thing is just adorable. That alone has sold me on these guys.

 

[CivLuvah]

It will be very interesting to see this on TSL maps: Maori vs Australia, two powerful civs, let the games begin...

The old Antipodean rivalry, eh?

The reason why the Maori get culture and tourism from features rather than great works of writing is because they have all these myths about why different parts of the world are the way they are, so their bonuses are meant to represent that. It's not just because they didn't have a written language.

Thanks for clearing that up with the IRL connection.

 

[Arwon]

As a coastal civ with more food from boats and easy water tile acquisition, Auckland should synergise fairly well with the Maori too.