Maidan

[Ziggy Stardust]

No one stated Russia was an evil boogeyman explicitly either Ziggy, but by not pointing that out you are showing the behavior I am talking about.

Sure ... lol.

 

[Kyriakos]

Actually, I am pretty sure that many posted (in so many words) that Russia is an evil boogeyman.

 

[Sarin]

No one stated Russia was an evil boogeyman explicitly either Ziggy, but by not pointing that out you are showing the behavior I am talking about.

If you want to try this whattaboutism, let me just repeat myself: Russia is a clear and present danger for Europe and, if allowed to go on this way unchecked, likely to initiate a nuclear war.

 

[Estebonrober]

If you want to try this whattaboutism, let me just repeat myself: Russia is a clear and present danger for Europe and, if allowed to go on this way unchecked, likely to initiate a nuclear war.

Ok, yea I will continue this "whataboutism" because if that were the actual case then why is the US the only real financing and arming source for Ukraine? Europe seems less concerned than you are in reality. If this is you calling them a boogeyman so be it. You think Russians are literally villainous humans who have no real agency other than malignancy on the planet.

Again, you want to turn even tepid criticism of cancelling elections and having a notoriously corrupt government of Ukraine into support for Russia or equivocating the two regimes and that's jsut not the case. If you mistook my wording than that's on you for projecting the worst opinion of me you could take and running with it. This behavior is commonplace on that thread. I'm trying not to do this with you, but you are making it difficult.

Edit: I got you and ziggy mixed up here sry. I think it still applies, yes?

 

[Sarin]

Ok, yea I will continue this "whataboutism" because if that were the actual case then why is the US the only real financing and arming source for Ukraine? Europe seems less concerned than you are in reality. If this is you calling them a boogeyman so be it. You think Russians are literally villainous humans who have no real agency other than malignancy on the planet.

Again, you want to turn even tepid criticism of cancelling elections and having a notoriously corrupt government of Ukraine into support for Russia or equivocating the two regimes and that's jsut not the case. If you mistook my wording than that's on you for projecting the worst opinion of me you could take and running with it. This behavior is commonplace on that thread. I'm trying not to do this with you, but you are making it difficult.

Lie. If you've been keeping even superficial eye on things, as you claim you have, you have to know that.

Bilateral aid to Ukraine by country GDP 2024 | Statista

Estonia and Denmark had the highest ratio of bilateral support to Ukraine to donor GDP as of January 2024. Poland ranked seventh by GDP share of aid to Ukraine.

www.statista.com

Many European countries gave much bigger aid in proportion to their GDP than US. US is just big with massive economy so the total aid is more.

The rest of your argumentation is just as dishonest.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Ukraine Support Tracker - A Database of Military, Financial and Humanitarian Aid to Ukraine

The Ukraine Support Tracker lists and quantifies military, financial and humanitarian aid promised by governments to Ukraine.

www.ifw-kiel.de

 

[Akka]

Ok, yea I will continue this "whataboutism" because if that were the actual case then why is the US the only real financing and arming source for Ukraine? Europe seems less concerned than you are in reality.

It's kinda telling that for all the apparent efforts you put in the thread (mainly to dig up conspiracies about how the US manipulated everything), you seem still to be completely ignorant of the actual facts.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hattrick! \o/

 

[Estebonrober]

Lie. If you've been keeping even superficial eye on things, as you claim you have, you have to know that.

Bilateral aid to Ukraine by country GDP 2024 | Statista

Estonia and Denmark had the highest ratio of bilateral support to Ukraine to donor GDP as of January 2024. Poland ranked seventh by GDP share of aid to Ukraine.

www.statista.com

Many European countries gave much bigger aid in proportion to their GDP than US. US is just big with massive economy so the total aid is more.

This does not make the rest of my argument "dishonest". This is the kind of garbage I'm talking about. Tahnks for showing me the relative GDP. Now for the reply to the content of your post and not the bullfeathers baiting in it.

How much has the EU given to Ukraine compared to the US?

Has the EU provided the same amount of financial aid to Ukraine as the US? That’s what Thierry Breton, the Commissioner for Internal Market of the European Union claims. But is it true?

www.euronews.com

It's not as clear as showing the relative GDP of the former eastern bloc nations and walking away...The EU and US are close to the same total contribution with the US giving substantially more to the war effort and much more coming.

 

[Estebonrober]

View attachment 679118
It's kinda telling that for all the apparent efforts you put in the thread (mainly to dig up conspiracies about how the US manipulated everything), you seem still to be completely ignorant of the actual facts.

In this very post you are literally making my point. If Russia is a fudging existential threat to Europe why is Europe not fighting? Not even sending arms or money for arms? 42 billion on military with another 80 on the way and the EU has mustered what 25? at most?

This indicates that they consider Russia a threat but not on the same level this brigade of posters here clearly think they are..

 

[Estebonrober]

Hattrick! \o/

./snicker

 

[keli]

did you even bother to finish reading the sentence before you hit reply?

Come on. Play along. I wanted to drive home my point about how absurd it is to worry about Ukrainian nazis and lack of elections in a war torn country while at the same time supporting a country (?) which elected literal terrorists and fascists 18 years ago and after that had no elections anymore.

 

[Akka]

In this very post you are literally making my point.

Are you blind or what ?

 

[Sarin]

This does not make the rest of my argument "dishonest". This is the kind of garbage I'm talking about. Tahnks for showing me the relative GDP. Now for the reply to the content of your post and not the bullfeathers baiting in it.

How much has the EU given to Ukraine compared to the US?

Has the EU provided the same amount of financial aid to Ukraine as the US? That’s what Thierry Breton, the Commissioner for Internal Market of the European Union claims. But is it true?

www.euronews.com

It's not as clear as showing the relative GDP of the former eastern bloc nations and walking away...The EU and US are close to the same total contribution with the US giving substantially more to the war effort and much more coming.

To say that absolute aid, rather than proportion of their capabilities, is a proof of will and intent, is a propaganda feat worthy of Solovyov.

And so is claiming that not starting a direct confrontation between NATO and Russia, the very thing that we're trying to avoid due to high risk of nuclear engagement, is a proof that we're not taking it seriously.

In this very post you are literally making my point. If Russia is a fudging existential threat to Europe why is Europe not fighting? Not even sending arms or money for arms? 42 billion on military with another 80 on the way and the EU has mustered what 25? at most?

This indicates that they consider Russia a threat but not on the same level this brigade of posters here clearly think they are..

For these reasons, I'm considering you about as honest as "nuke them all" mouthpiece Solovyov. End of discussion.

 

[Kyriakos]

Lie. If you've been keeping even superficial eye on things, as you claim you have, you have to know that.

Bilateral aid to Ukraine by country GDP 2024 | Statista

Estonia and Denmark had the highest ratio of bilateral support to Ukraine to donor GDP as of January 2024. Poland ranked seventh by GDP share of aid to Ukraine.

www.statista.com

Many European countries gave much bigger aid in proportion to their GDP than US. US is just big with massive economy so the total aid is more.

The rest of your argumentation is just as dishonest.

1.Those baltic states are city-sized; aid relative to GDP doesn't matter in such a large war.
2.They want to help so much because they have sizable russian minorities, were in the soviet block and only "in the west" since 2004 when they joined the Eu. They aren't representative of the bulk of Eu countries re any of those traits.

 

[r16]

seems not entirely my bidding and trolling good old Uncle Sam though ı must say it was easier on the eyes when the team was away . It will only add pages of stuff that will hide the essential thing that US changed the status quo , seeking war . It only makes US come out clean .

 

[Crezth]

To say that absolute aid, rather than proportion of their capabilities, is a proof of will and intent, is a propaganda feat worthy of Solovyov.

And so is claiming that not starting a direct confrontation between NATO and Russia, the very thing that we're trying to avoid due to high risk of nuclear engagement, is a proof that we're not taking it seriously.


For these reasons, I'm considering you about as honest as "nuke them all" mouthpiece Solovyov. End of discussion.

very wise, just call your opponent solovyov when you don’t have anything else to say.

I’d say it’s dishonest but mainly it’s ignorant to pretend that US’ aid is not significant just because the US underwrites the whole NATO. Like what? Lol

 

[Gorbles]

For these reasons, I'm considering you about as honest as "nuke them all" mouthpiece Solovyov. End of discussion.

Quoting this for the record you or the folks that approve of this cry wolf about name-calling.

"oh but here it's justified", it always is buddy. It always is.

 

[Sarin]

i notice you never once mentioned “proportion of capabilities” in the Hamas Israel thread. I just thought that was an interesting example of holding two different sets of standards simultaneously.

Ooh, personal whattaboutism. I must really be getting on your nerves.

Since you claim you read those few posts I made there, you must know that I don't support either side there and consider the whole conflict and related discussion a dumpster fire that I don't want to touch even wirelessly.

 

[Sarin]

Quoting this for the record you or the folks that approve of this cry wolf about name-calling.

"oh but here it's justified", it always is buddy. It always is.

Quote the whole conversation, or none of it. I don't mind calling people out for what they are once they show their true colours, and that's exactly what happened here.