Massive Earthquake and Tsunami strikes Japan

[Cutlass]

That depends on how it is managed. Much of Japan's immediate problem is that its transportation system is messed up. But 200k people isn't that hard for a developed nation to move, provided you don't try and do it in just a day or 2.

 

[Holycannoli]

So if the power lines do work, what exactly would happen? Like how would the damage be prevented exactly (like how do the power lines even manage to connect to a damaged structure) and what damage or radiation spread would this be unable to fix?

I wish I knew, but I heard that it could prevent a larger meltdown which is the main concern now.

Todays' news isn't as centered on the nuke problem though so what I'm hearing is sporadic at best.

The CNN nuclear power expert thinks it is highly ominous that the top US reactor official stated that US citizens, including the US military, should stay at least 50 miles away, contrary to the policy of the Japanese government which is claiming the danger zone is confined to 12 miles. He thinks it likely means that there is extremely high radiation from contaminants being spread into the atmosphere from fires from exposed fuel rods at the #4 reactor spent fuel pond.

Yeah the Japanese government is coming under increasing criticism for not releasing enough info, not to the media but to agencies like the IAEA.

 

[Singularity]

Here's an updated map from United States Geological Survey:



It tries to depict how strongly the earthquake was felt in the various regions of Japan. And it also displays a rough outline of the underwater area that slipped/trusted upwards in the event.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That's 80 KM, or four times the current evacuation zone of 20 KM that they've established. There where 200.000 people evacuated within that area, and you can just imagine how many reside within the greater area -- It would probably be prohibitively difficult to perform such an evacuation. The few US citizens however in that zone is probably very manageable to evacuate.

That doesn't explain why the US military is currently banned from even going inside the same sized area.

I actually think more people would die from the evacuation than the potential total fatalities from the worst case fallout

Right...

Just heard on CNN. Chairman of the NRC: "We believe there is no water in the spent fuel pool".

 

[Silurian]

From NPR

The chief of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Wednesday that all the water is gone from one of the spent fuel pools at Japan's most troubled nuclear plant. But Japanese officials denied it.

"There is no water in the spent fuel pool and we believe that radiation levels are extremely high, which could possibly impact the ability to take corrective measures," NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko said.

If NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko was correct, this would mean there was nothing to stop the fuel rods from heating and ultimately melting down. The outer shell of the rods could also ignite with enough force to propel the radioactive fuel inside over a wide area, widening the potential reach of any nuclear fallout.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=134600420

So that is why they were dropping water from helicopters

 

[Cutlass]

They were talking about bringing in crowd control water cannons to fire water in there from a distance.

 

[Singularity]

That doesn't explain why the US military is currently banned from even going inside the same sized area.

Right...

Just heard on CNN. Chairman of the NRC: "We believe there is no water in the spent fuel pool".

Oh, I don't doubt there's good cause behind the US alert. What I'm telling is that there will be fatalities connected to a mass evacuation on a scale of multiple millions trying to get out at the same time. There's no doubt about that. And that's in an area that's already reeling from the double blow of the effects of the EQ/Tsunami with thousands of missing people and weakened infrastructure.

How bad can the multiple meltdown/burning of spent fuel rods get? Anyone's guess. People keep saying that it will be immediately fatal in a very limited area around the plant, but depending on how fierce the radioactive fires become and the direction and strength of the wind you might have an axis of death along the direction of the wind.

If you evactuate people will die. There's still a chance that the meltdown will be controlled and local. So that's why I can empathize with the politicians hesitation to act on the information the US authorities acted on.

 

[Mathalamus]

if you don't evacuate in time, more people will die, and you will have about a 100 million extremely pissed off people.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Why don't they roll a prefabricated cover in there and cover up the rods? Or they could do a Chernobyl-style pile of boron and concrete on top of the rods.

 

[Silurian]

Why don't they roll a prefabricated cover in there and cover up the rods? Or they could do a Chernobyl-style pile of boron and concrete on top of the rods.

Do you have the a spare cover.
How do you get it there.
Assemble it.
Move it when assembled.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What I'm telling is that there will be fatalities connected to a mass evacuation on a scale of multiple millions trying to get out at the same time.

You mean like there wasn't with the massive evacuation for the impending tsunami? And they only had an hour instead of days.

 

[Singularity]

You mean like there wasn't with the massive evacuation for the impending tsunami?

Yeah, but it wasn't a chance that the tsunami somehow wouldn't show up. As long as there's men in white coats telling the politicians that it will be contained they will have two equations to consider instead of the singular one with the tsunami.

It's all down to risk management again. And the Japanese are actually very very skilled at those things.

 

[Tani Coyote]

All the talk of rain being the worst thing to worry about in the case of fallout isn't helping my paranoia; it seems Spring and Summer are Vegas' monsoon seasons. Damnit all.

Hope they can get this chaos under control. We need some sort of cannon that can shoot water in a pressurised line like 100 miles.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

All the talk of rain being the worst thing to worry about in the case of fallout isn't helping my paranoia; it seems Spring and Summer are Vegas' monsoon seasons. Damnit all.

Hope they can get this chaos under control. We need some sort of cannon that can shoot water in a pressurised line like 100 miles.

Maybe we could use that to push back the supermoon that's causing all of this.

 

[JujuLautre]

Now most of Tokyo's residents either fled or are staying indoors, so I guess they're taking whatever precautions necessary, no matter what the government says.

Could people please stop delivering such nonsense? What kind of news do you trust abroad ?

Besides some electricity and food shortage, life is pretty much normal in Tokyo. People take the train, go to work, to school (or not, it's Spring holidays for some), play in the park... The number of people who actually fled the area are is a tiny minor bit compared to the number of people who just live their lives.

Seems like nikosison has better source of information, you can take a look two pages before.

 

[Formaldehyde]

How bad can the multiple meltdown/burning of spent fuel rods get?

You mean why evacuate to 50 miles as the leading acknowledged expert in the US insists?

Yeah, but it wasn't a chance that the tsunami somehow wouldn't show up. As long as there's men in white coats telling the politicians that it will be contained they will have two equations to consider instead of the singular one with the tsunami.

It's all down to risk management again. And the Japanese are actually very very skilled at those things.

You are right. They should just listen to laymen. They obviously know far more about the inherent dangers of having fuel rods completely exposed to the atmosphere than the head of the NRC does.

 

[Holycannoli]

Life being normal in Tokyo doesn't mean everything's safe in Tokyo, at least when considering what might happen in the very near future. Like I said before, they're under increasing criticism for not releasing enough info, and I knew from the very beginning they weren't going to release enough info to it's citizens. Panic might ensue if they did.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Has the Japanese public shown any signs of panic so far?

There are no good excuses for lying to the public like this. That is why the US government has decided to release this information.

 

[Singularity]

You mean why evacuate to 50 miles as the leading acknowledged expert in the US insists?

Hey man, no reason to extract parts of a post that you already replied to.

You are right. They should just listen to laymen. They obviously know far more about the inherent dangers of having fuel rods completely exposed to the atmosphere than the head of the NRC does.

Those aren't laymen. They're the consensus of the Japanese expertise. I've questioned those experts before and still do, but they're the only ones with people on the ground where the action is taking place and with a mandate to act on it.

 

[JujuLautre]

Life being normal in Tokyo doesn't mean everything's safe in Tokyo, at least when considering what might happen in the very near future

Obviously. I do not think I said otherwise. But the situation is definitely much better than lots of what I see described in newspapers titles abroad, titles like as "panic", "catastrophe", "people are fleeing the country"... Such things are an awfully wrong depiction of reality here, and I wanted to point that out.

On a personal note, I am actually much more concerned by the half billion people living in harsh conditions in the north, most of them having lost either their home, friends/family, or both. The weather is definitely not making things better