• Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .

Massive Earthquake and Tsunami strikes Japan

If it was so easy to make a remote-camera vehicle, why hasn't somebody done so already? Possibly the needed parts are buried under collapsed earthquake rubble???

On the side: what good would 24/7 images be? They're images of the outside of the buildings, and it's the inside that's worrisome. Innonimatu himself said he doesn't know where in the building the fuel rods are, in the photos he posted. And finally: the initial overheat at the Fukushima Daiichi plant was caused by a snapped power line. Could you point to the break in the photo for me? For all you know, the actual break in the power line is five miles away from the reactor.

There's armchair warriors, armchair quarterbacks, and now apparently armchair nuclear physicists. :huh:

I don't pretend to be a physicist. Much less a nuclear physicist. But I can recognize an explosion or a big fire when i see one. The PM of Japan had to be informed about two of the explosions from media and not TEPCO. That's a gross breach of confidence and information duty in such an accident. That's why I compare it to the BP camera feed. It might meant very little to the average person what was streaming out of the broken pipes, but experts where able to decipher what they where seeing and managed to call the spill numbers released by BP and the officials for the utter crap that they where.

The most accurate and up to date pictures seem to have been taken from outer space and not from the ground. As always information is power, and lack of it breeds speculation.
 
Another rather impressive (in its dramatic tone) quote by the European Union relevant commissioner:

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - The nuclear crisis in Japan is now in the "hands of God", the EU's energy commissioner, Guenther Oettinger, has said, rattling financial markets.

Speaking to the European Parliament's environment committee on Wednesday (16 March), Oettinger expressed surprise at the "incredible makeshift" methods being used by Japanese technicians to prevent further disaster at the Fukushima power plant. "The site is effectively out of control," the German commissioner told MEPs, a day after he described Japan as facing an "apocalypse".

http://euobserver.com/9/32003

Japan being "in the hands of God" does not sound very good.
 

Link to video.

780 spent fuel rods in reactor 4 possibly exposed to air and dispersing into the atmosphere. This is potentially far worse than anything going on in the reactors.


Link to video.

Video title speaks for itself.
 
Is Mr. Oettinger by any chance opposed to nuclear power? He sound very alarmist and dramatic.

Reading some other article it does seem that he wants alternatives to nuclear power to be used in Europe.

However this alone does not have to mean he is over-reacting. Besides he is merely the commissioner, he is saying what his advisors told him the situation is. The question being just how both the Eu and Russia (and the Usa?) seem to be presenting a greatly more dramatic image of the situation than the Japanese government has up to now.
 
Japan baffled by alarming U.S. statement as embassies advise evacuation

TOKYO —
Japan expressed confusion Thursday over an alarming finding by the U.S. nuclear regulatory body on the ongoing crisis at a nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture, but admitted it was somewhat slow in passing information along to Washington.

‘‘There was a slight delay conveying to the U.S. side the information about whether or not there is water’’ in a pool holding spent nuclear fuel rods at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news conference.

His comment came in response to a senior U.S. nuclear official’s remark Wednesday in Washington that there was no water left in the pool at the plant’s No. 4 reactor, posing a risk of high-level radiation emission from the fuel rods exposed to the atmosphere.

Gregory Jaczko, chairman of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, told a congressional hearing, ‘‘There is no water in the spent fuel pool and we believe that radiation levels are extremely high, which could possibly impact the ability to take corrective measures.’‘

But a Ground Self-Defense Force chopper, which doused the overheating spent nuclear fuel pool with water Thursday morning at the No. 3 reactor, found that water is left in the pond at the No. 4 unit, according to the plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co.

Jaczko also told Congress that spent fuel pools at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors are also developing problems. The NRC has dispatched experts to Japan to provide Tokyo with assistance.

Based on the NRC’s finding, the U.S. Embassy in Japan has asked American citizens living within an 80-kilometer radius of the Fukushima No. 1 power station to evacuate as a precautionary measure.

Japan’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said it believes the U.S. evacuation recommendation is ‘‘not appropriate’’ and will bolster information sharing with U.S. authorities so as not to cause misunderstandings.

Edano said that after the NRC chief made the remarks, the Japanese government provided U.S. experts with more detailed data.

Meanwhile, the Japanese government on Thursday sought to allay concerns over the nuclear crisis.

Edano expressed ‘‘understanding’’ over the U.S. advisory, noting that the U.S. government made a ‘‘more conservative decision from the standpoint of protecting its citizens.’‘

Edano said that if an incident occurred abroad in which people were asked to evacuate, the Japanese government would likely do the same thing to protect its nationals especially as it would not be directly in charge of the situation there.

Nonetheless, Japan has, at this point, no plans to expand the evacuation area over the crisis that has hit the nuclear plant, Edano said, noting that its data, reported by the science ministry, shows that the radiation does not immediately pose a risk to human health.

The Japanese government is currently setting the evacuation zone as areas within a 20-km radius of the plant and advises those within a 30-km radius to stay indoors, after an enormous earthquake struck eastern and northeastern Japan last Friday and subsequently crippled the Fukushima plant.

Edano said the instruction to stay indoors is a precautionary measure.

Still, embassies are increasingly issuing warnings to their nationals to leave Tokyo or the country.

Britain has advised its nationals living in Tokyo and areas north of the Japanese capital to consider leaving, while the Russian Foreign Ministry has announced it will evacuate the families of diplomats working at the Russian Embassy in Tokyo, possibly from Friday.

The U.S. Embassy in Japan said in its advice issued Thursday local time, ‘‘We are recommending, as a precaution, that American citizens who live within 50 miles (80 kilometers) of the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant evacuate the area or to take shelter indoors if safe evacuation is not practical.’‘

Conditions such as weather and wind direction will affect the area of radioactive contamination in a complex way, the embassy said, adding that low-level radioactive materials can reach areas more than 80 km away from the damaged nuclear power plant.

Australia and Germany also advised their citizens in Japan to consider leaving Tokyo and earthquake-affected areas.

Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, however, said its advice to Australians had nothing to do with the threat of nuclear contamination from the damaged plant. “We are providing this advice because of the continuing disruption to major infrastructure, its impact on the welfare of people on the ground and continuing aftershocks,” its notice said.

Germany’s Foreign Ministry advised its citizens living near the nuclear plant or in the capital region to either leave the country or move to the Osaka area. Ministry spokesman Andreas Peschke said an estimated 5,000 Germans were in Japan before the earthquake, but now only about 1,000 are believed to remain in and around the capital. Germany’s embassy in Tokyo also has been “partly relocated” to the consulate general in Osaka, Peschke said.

France has urged its citizens with no reason to stay in Tokyo return to France or head to southern Japan. The government has asked Air France to mobilize aircraft in Asia to assist with departures.

Serbia and Croatia advised their citizens to leave Japan, while Croatia said it was moving its embassy from Tokyo to Osaka because of the nuclear crisis.

More than 3,000 Chinese have already been evacuated from Japan’s northeast to Niigata on Japan’s western coast, according to Xinhua News Agency. On Tuesday, Beijing became the first government to organize a mass evacuation of its citizens from the quake-affected area.

The Philippine Embassy in Tokyo told its citizens to follow advisories issued by Japanese authorities. It added, however, that Filipinos who are concerned about possible radiation exposure “may wish to voluntary relocate to areas further away, or depart voluntarily from the country using their own means.”

If relocation and repatriation become necessary, the Philippine government will defray the costs involved, the Department of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.

Operation Tomodachi: US Military “Too Cool”

The USA has been aiding Japan’s quake ravaged north with large deployments of troops, aircraft and carriers as part of “Operation Tomodachi,” and the extent of their efforts has earned the undying gratitude of Japanese in the affected regions and beyond.
Some of the scenes at US relief operations, where the US navy and air force (here mostly the USS Ronald Reagan and the Black Knights) and took a prominent role:

Even 2ch is moved:

“As expected of our friends!”
“USA! USA!”
“They’re so handsome. It’s like a movie, really.”
“I could cry. We’re truly grateful, America!”
“Sorry we were so hard-hearted. It seems America was our only friend after all.”
“They are really used to this stuff, aren’t they?”
“They really are tool cool. What is this sense of security I feel…”
“Please make Japan a state.”
“Guys who have seen actual combat are in a different class.”
“They are heroes, seriously.”
“As expected of our master! Japan will remain by your side as your Pochi forever!”
“Rather than seeing our government’s incomprehensible press conferences, seeing the US army on the ground is much more reassuring.”
“The SDF isn’t bad, but seeing this you can really tell how badly Japanese lack decisiveness.”
“I got wet when I saw this on the news. America can have me any time!”
“They seriously look too cool! USA!! USA!! USA!! USA!!”
“The USA is truly Japan’s ally!”
“If God made the world into a feature film America would be the protagonist.”
“Americans may be stupidly optimistic but they are certainly brave and believe in justice.”
“It’s amusing that we can rely on another nation’s armed forces more than we can our own government…”
“I cried!”

Japan for its part has deployed virtually the entire SDF into the region, and its civilian sector is certainly no slouch at rebuilding either:
BTW 2ch is pretty much the grandfather of four chan and ever other *chan is the world.

Note that the source for the second story is EXTREMELY NSFW but has some pretty pictures of the relief operations. Here

Some one drew a nice picture for "Operation Tomodachi(Friend)"

 
yuck, right into my city. I was hoping it would go north into Canada. :D

So long as it stays dry (no rain) the fallout passing overhead is of no concern, correct? :)

We'll have to worry about it overhead come a few hours. How long would it take to become say, Arizona's problem and not ours? A day or two? So long as it doesn't rain during this time the water stays fine?
 
I'm not normally one for sappy appraisals of people, but seriously, the 180 or so engineers working at the plants to try to stop the crisis are giving themselves a death sentence to save many times more people and I think we all owe them some gratitude for what they are trying to do, even if we are not immediately impacted by this event.

So I've been doing a lot of research on nuclear physics and history all of a sudden and while most of it is over my head, I've been quite enlightened. My question is will a concrete sarcophagus be needed for the multiple reactors to contain this if it gets further out of control? How fast could that be undertaken, the Soviets did it pretty quickly yes? Then again they were the Soviets.
 
I personally cannot afford to waste any electricity or gas, i find it harder and harder to pay my energy bills with every price rise, but when i think of those poor people at the plant sacrificing their very lives for cheaper energy i don't want any part of it, even if those brave workers manage to avert a larger catastrophe their health will be irreparably damaged and they may die soon after in a horribly painful manner, as did the workers of Chernobyl, if they don't succeed then god knows what sort of catastrophe japan is going to face.

If i ever get a vote on whether i want the nuclear industry phased out, decommissioned and forgotten about i'l be ticking the box that says "yes", the fear and pain i'm seeing in Japan has truly shocked me.
 
my opinion on nuclear power has not changed. they knew the risks when they got the job. if they have to die to save millions, then great. the governments will then design future plants better because of this.
 
I'm not normally one for sappy appraisals of people, but seriously, the 180 or so engineers working at the plants to try to stop the crisis are giving themselves a death sentence to save many times more people and I think we all owe them some gratitude for what they are trying to do, even if we are not immediately impacted by this event.

So I've been doing a lot of research on nuclear physics and history all of a sudden and while most of it is over my head, I've been quite enlightened. My question is will a concrete sarcophagus be needed for the multiple reactors to contain this if it gets further out of control? How fast could that be undertaken, the Soviets did it pretty quickly yes? Then again they were the Soviets.
It was actually down to 50 people at one stage, and I believe they are still using that number of people to try to control all these problems. And they were all evacuated for at least a brief period when the spent fuel rods at reactor #4 were apparently uncovered. If the reports are true that the spent fuel rods continue to be uncovered, they are very brave people indeed. They are all likely highly-trained professionals who know exactly what the dangers are staying onsite. They all have dosimeters which alert them when they are being exposed to dangerous radiation.

The structures don't appear to be anywhere near as tall as Chernobyl, so they may be able to bury the entire mess. But somehow they will have to use some means of assuring that contaminants cannot escape (except through the groundwater...), as well as likely abandoning the entire site.

Canada has now advised the same size evacuation zone as the US.

Many countries are now encouraging their citizens to leave Japan, including the US which has chartered planes for that purpose.
 
I'm not normally one for sappy appraisals of people, but seriously, the 180 or so engineers working at the plants to try to stop the crisis are giving themselves a death sentence to save many times more people and I think we all owe them some gratitude for what they are trying to do, even if we are not immediately impacted by this event.

So I've been doing a lot of research on nuclear physics and history all of a sudden and while most of it is over my head, I've been quite enlightened. My question is will a concrete sarcophagus be needed for the multiple reactors to contain this if it gets further out of control? How fast could that be undertaken, the Soviets did it pretty quickly yes? Then again they were the Soviets.

A quick perspective on the damage already done


Japanese Earthquake Update (17 March 01:15 UTC)
Injuries or Contamination at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant

Based on a press release from the Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary dated 16 March 2011, the IAEA can confirm the following information about human injuries or contamination at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Please note that this list provides a snapshot of the latest information made available to the IAEA by Japanese authorities. Given the fluid situation at the plant, this information is subject to change.

Injuries

2 TEPCO employees have minor injuries
2 subcontractor employees are injured, one person suffered broken legs and one person whose condition is unknown was transported to the hospital
2 people are missing
2 people were 'suddenly taken ill'
2 TEPCO employees were transported to hospital during the time of donning respiratory protection in the control centre
4 people (2 TEPCO employees, 2 subcontractor employees) sustained minor injuries due to the explosion at unit 1 on 11 March and were transported to the hospital
11 people (4 TEPCO employees, 3 subcontractor employees and 4 Japanese civil defense workers) were injured due to the explosion at unit 3 on 14 March
Radiological Contamination

17 people (9 TEPCO employees, 8 subcontractor employees) suffered from deposition of radioactive material to their faces, but were not taken to the hospital because of low levels of exposure
One worker suffered from significant exposure during 'vent work,' and was transported to an offsite center
2 policemen who were exposed to radiation were decontaminated
Firemen who were exposed to radiation are under investigation
The IAEA continues to seek information from Japanese authorities about all aspects of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
 
my opinion on nuclear power has not changed. they knew the risks when they got the job. if they have to die to save millions, then great. the governments will then design future plants better because of this.

I agree. The workers can quit if they want to. They aren't forced to do this.

As for my positions on nuclear power, I'm undecided. I'll have to wait and see how this all plays out. But one thing is for certain, there needs to be a better method than storing depleted rods in pools right next to operating reactors.

edit: in response to the above post and attached quote, I'm most concerned about the 2 workers missing. Where are they? They've been missing for days. Did they just abandon their jobs (understandable), or are they dead lying next to the pool? I shudder to think they died in that way.
 
Top Bottom