Perfection
The Great Head.
Nah, a fair amount do, but some of it seems to have other purposes. I mean how does choosing steak over hamburger eminate from said longing?Birdjaguar said:
Materialism and Consciousness.
- Thread starter cgannon64
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How about the subconscious choice to have a pulse rate of 72 instead of 71?
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
That evidence doesn't really go either way. Is it evidence of free will? Sure. Could it be evidence that the rules giving rise to consciousness are capable of confusion and apparent irrationality? Sure.
Free will at work. Everyone has the ability to choose badly.CartesianFart said:So we have to look at the world as it by Perfection precept as what it is?
Logical constructions and Perfection/Birdjaquar hmm...i think i will choose the former.
We've always known that people can be confused and irrational.
Free Will, however, let's us act against our own life - knowing the (obvious) consequences ...
CartesianFart
Deity
It wasn't volition that guided me,but predetermined 'reason' to choose rightly.Birdjaguar said:Free will at work. Everyone has the ability to choose badly.
Only if you have a desire to do so.cgannon64 said:
So in a sense, no, you cannot. But that's just due to the logical nature of desire, and again, desires are a good thing. This is about as limiting of freedom as being unable to draw a square circle.
Hunger and self preservation can be worked back, steak or hamburger is just a cultural affectation.Perfection said:
So you prefer hamburgers if you want to be popular with hamburger-lovers and prefer steak if you prefer to be friends with steak-lovers?
That works for me too. But since both you and perfection can't be right, you must be wrong. Ergo, people can be predetermined to be wrong.CartesianFart said:It wasn't volition that guided me,but predetermined 'reason' to choose rightly.
Could be, or maybe he only has $12.00 and the steak costs $22.95.El_Machinae said:
Perfection
The Great Head.
You mean like Brittany Spears' baby?Birdjaguar said:That works for me too. But since both you and perfection can't be right, you must be wrong. Ergo, people can be predetermined to be wrong.
Perfection
The Great Head.
I don't think so, I think one is deliciouser than the other.Birdjaguar said:
Like I said steak or hamburger is a cultural affectation.Perfection said:
And yes Brittany Spears is perdetermined to be just wrong.
punkbass2000
Des An artiste
Perfection said:
And such is the problem with concepts. IMO, you can probably cite any single concept as the underlying motivation for any action, if you try hard enough. We simply are what we are. Eat when our body hungers, drink when it thirsts, sleep when it tires. Some of us just overcomplicate it.
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
No, that's a false analogy.WillJ said:
Your definition of freedom is totally limiting, and doesn't warrant the name freedom. You see freedom as internal consistency of actions to desires. Can't you see how that isn't free at all? It may be the only rational 'brand' of freedom consistent with materialism, but it does not deserve to be called freedom.
EDIT: Also, that is only due to the logical nature of desire as it is defined in materialism. Up until materialisms, desires were considered things that vied for your choice, not controlled them. You could very easily contradict your desires in the older viewpoint, because desires were simply encapsulated ways of looking at a problem: you were free to consider all and choose. In the form of instincts, of course, they could strongly sway your choice, but never control it.
Do you see how your claims to logic are a little circular? You claim any other viewpoint to yours is illogical - but only because you've also claimed the definitions, and so tried to trap all opposing viewpoints in an arena in which they cannot win...
Why can't systems based on rules act irrationally? There wouldn't be an inviolable coded-in rationality...El Machinae said:
Perfection
The Great Head.
I don't think culture has anything to do with it. I think steak is intrinsicly more satisfying.Birdjaguar said:Like I said steak or hamburger is a cultural affectation.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Spot on! I think Birdjaguar is falling a bit into this trap.punkbass2000 said:
It's more that the rules allow both rational and irrational actions, but the rational actions are self-selected.
By analogy, a forest fire spreads. However, each fire projects heat to where there is fuel and no-fuel equally. Unsurprisingly, the fire only continues where there is fuel. It seems that projecting heat to a no-fuel area is 'irrational' if the fire's goal is to exist. However, we attribute no such goal to a fire.
Life, however, seems to project energy more to actions that increase its survival vs. projecting energy everywhere equally.
By analogy, a forest fire spreads. However, each fire projects heat to where there is fuel and no-fuel equally. Unsurprisingly, the fire only continues where there is fuel. It seems that projecting heat to a no-fuel area is 'irrational' if the fire's goal is to exist. However, we attribute no such goal to a fire.
Life, however, seems to project energy more to actions that increase its survival vs. projecting energy everywhere equally.
Learned behavior. With time and control I could convince you to "eat poop" and enjoyt it.Perfection said:
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