Matt's Mormon Thread

[ironduck]

Basically, we try to have an understanding of why there are particular commandments, but obey them anyways. Pink isn't really my color, and a dress would be hard to wear in this cold weather, but if God tells me, I'll go to the dress shop.

And if god tells you to kill your siblings or parents?

 

[downtown]

then god better have a damn good reason

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I'm sure that you're not trying to make a comparison between abstinence from coffee and fratricide, but anyways . . .

There have been times in the Bible and the Book of Mormon when God told someone to kill someone else, for whatever reason. In any case, the person in question resisted strongly but was told in a way that was unmistakeable.

If, theoretically, God did tell me to kill a sibling, I would want a reason and a definite manifestation that couldn't be mistaken for anything else. Even then I don't know if I would. After all, it would go against the moral principles that He gave me. Again, theoretically.

On less 'life or death' matters, I am certainly capable of obeying what I believe to be the will of God. When I use qualifiers like 'I believe' or 'in our view' it is not expressing doubt on my part but recognizing that most of the readers here don't share my views, and trying to clarify what is my faith and what is a matter of logical discussion.

Again, there is a difference between obeying a commandment without knowing why, and obeying a commandment when the only reason that it was given was to see if we would obey.

 

[Homie]

And if god tells you to kill your siblings or parents?

First, I'd question if that was really God, and not the devil.
But if there was no doubt that it was God, the right thing to do would be to obey. Remember Abraham and Isaac. God told Abraham to kill his son, to check his obedience. Abram was a very obedient man - and trusted God knew best, so with tears in his eyes he was actually going to do it - kil his son. But God sent an angel in time to stop him from going through with it. God knows all, and alot that makes no sense now, will make sense later, like with Abram.

 

[ironduck]

then god better have a damn good reason

Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac, wasn't he? Yes, it was stopped at the last minute, but Abraham didn't know that. He was ready to go through it, according to the story. Would you?

 

[ironduck]

If, theoretically, God did tell me to kill a sibling, I would want a reason and a definite manifestation that couldn't be mistaken for anything else. Even then I don't know if I would. After all, it would go against the moral principles that He gave me. Again, theoretically.

But Abraham didn't get the real reason until after he had passed the test (which was whether he feared god and would honour his every wish). He was simply told to do so, and he did.

 

[ironduck]

First, I'd question if that was really God, and not the devil.
But if there was no doubt that it was God, the right thing to do would be to obey.

What if god told you to press the red button that would start a nuclear war?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Abraham was a special case - he was a prophet, who had communicated with God many times in the past and could be sure that the message came from God. Also, it may not be relevant, but it's not like Abraham could have been arrested for what he did. The point is, Abraham had far more contact with, and understanding of, God than I do. I like to think that I have enough faith to die for my beliefs, but as far as killing, I have no idea.

 

[SoCalian]

Here is the only question that really matters. What do you believe about Jesus

 

[ironduck]

Abraham was a special case - he was a prophet, who had communicated with God many times in the past and could be sure that the message came from God. Also, it may not be relevant, but it's not like Abraham could have been arrested for what he did. The point is, Abraham had far more contact with, and understanding of, God than I do. I like to think that I have enough faith to die for my beliefs, but as far as killing, I have no idea.

I'm sure you can follow my line of thought though. If you accept that god tells you that homosexuality is a sin, should you not want a damn good reason for it? It's not like they have a choice as you put it yourself (why did god make them so). God could give you all kinds of commands, but how can you know it's really true, and why don't you question their morality if they have negative consequences for others?

 

[Homie]

What if god told you to press the red button that would start a nuclear war?

I just told you that if God told me to kill one of my parents or siblings I would(whom I love very much btw, and who also happen to be brethren and sisters in Christ). Don't you think I would also press the red button? I would.

But all this is besides the point anyway, as it is highly unlikely that God would ask such silly things of me or anyone. And if He did, there would be a good reason for it, God is much smarter than us, and He can always see the big picture.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Like I said, as far as homosexuality is concerned it goes against the doctrine that God has given us regarding the purpose of sex, and the fact that we don't have all of the answers doesn't mean we shouildn't act on the ones we have. And I can't say we don't question their morality - if asked I will repeat that it is a sin, and encourage anyone with homosexual attraction not to engage in same-gender sexual activity, but free will is as important to our belief as anything, so we can't force anyone to do or not do anything.

@SoCalian: Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Savior. He is the son of God, and it is only through him, his atoning sacrifice, and following him that we can hope to gain salvation from sin and death. He is my personal savior, as well as the savior of all of those who accept him - and those who don't.

 

[SoCalian]

Actually there is a reason for why God says homosexuality is a sin, along with why pre marital sex is a sin, and they both have to do with experiencing the "wholeness of God" for lack of a better term. I'm no theologian(yet), and I have only heard it once or twice(they don't really get to deep into theology in youth group), so I don't really know how to explain it adequetly. I wish I could, but alas I can't. I have found however, god tends to have a reason behind all of his comandments. God is a resonable god, and endowed us with the some abilities of reason(though not nearly to his extent, but you get my point), so we should use the gifts He gave us.

 

[SoCalian]

@SoCalian: Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Savior. He is the son of God, and it is only through him, his atoning sacrifice, and following him that we can hope to gain salvation from sin and death. He is my personal savior, as well as the savior of all of those who accept him - and those who don't.

that's great! I belive so long as you have that basic belief, then you're good. I still think that Joseph Smith was probbably a crock, but so long as you are leading people to Christ, I have no real problem with you guys. Go, do your missions. That's great.I'm going to South Africa myself this summer. And while I may disagree with you on some of the finer points of doctrine, and how they apply to society, I do even with members of my own church and denomination(Nazarene), Jesus Is the only thing that matters really.

 

[Vietcong]

u misread what i said, thay didnt kill the natives, thay killed the setaliers, white american setlers on ther way to origan that whear passing throw.

 

[Esckey]

Another thing that I am curious about Mormons on what are their process for converts (from non-Christian religions and from other Christian denominations) to the Mormon chruch?

If your athiest they teach you the basics first(jesus son of god, personal savior, yadda yadda yadda) then they get into the history of the BoM, the sacriment, temple stuff, and the church as a whole, you drop by church on sundays meet with the bishop sorta get a feel for the place. Then theres 6 little well study sessions I guess you would call them, "the plan of our heavenly father"(short thing about why He is our father and why Jesus is our savoir and who the prophets are), then "the gospel of Jesus christ" (what he's taught us and how to overcome the obsticales through faith repentance and obedience), then "the restoration" (thing about how and why J.S. restored the true church and what happend to it before J.S.), then theres "eternal progression" (what happend before we came here, what eill happen after), and then "living a christ like life" (love, tithing fasting and seflessness) and lastly "membership in the kingdom" (how to get in basically)
Then if you think your ready your off to the water to get dunked

 

[Che Guava]

@Eran of Arcadia: Can you explain the mormon concept of exaltation? I hear lots of rumours about "becoming god of your own planet" in the LDS church, but never really got it from the horse's mouth.

 

[silver 2039]

I just told you that if God told me to kill one of my parents or siblings I would(whom I love very much btw, and who also happen to be brethren and sisters in Christ). Don't you think I would also press the red button? I would.

But all this is besides the point anyway, as it is highly unlikely that God would ask such silly things of me or anyone. And if He did, there would be a good reason for it, God is much smarter than us, and He can always see the big picture.

There have been quite a few cases when a person has killed off their family in the "name of god". Take the case of that women who drowned her four children and then said that "god told her to do it" She was obiviously found guilty and convicted she either got life or the death sentence. As she should have.

Now my question is what do you say to that? How do you know that "god" actually told her to kill her children? It sounds to me like nothing but an excuse for cold-blooded murder and that is all it is.

I find your subservience to this "being" disturbing. To unquestioningly carry out whatever you are supposdely ordered, by something that supposedly exists. It boggles the mind....

 

[downtown]

dude. she was mentally ill, and you know that.

 

[silver 2039]

dude. she was mentally ill, and you know that.

So should I assume that the people in this thread who said they would kill their siblings or parents if "god" told them to are also mentally ill? Well I suppose that makes a lot of sense actually....