Matt's Mormon Thread
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Newawd
Chieftain
@Methos: An easy way to think of the Temple Garments is by thinking of your wedding ring. When you wear it, it doesn't really mean anything 'deep and mysterious'. It just means you made a promise to your wife. Just think of it like that. We made promises to God that we would 'be good' (that's the gist of it anyhow), and our temple garments are the symbol of those promises. They also help us to remember to be modest, as we wear them all the time. And no, before anyone gets all bent out of shape 
, we don't wear them *ALL* the time. I was just being general. Oh, and I didn't run off. As a matter of fact I was thinking the same thing about *you*, as you owe me a few emails. 
Check your inbox you slacker.
@Eran: Brownies *rock* or Jell-o.
You know, since we're trying to answer questions, many people wonder what the 'bigger picture' is for Mormons. There are so many details that I don't want people to get too caught up in. Here's the birds eye view (IMHO):
1. Worship God
2. Perfect yourself (this is a slow process... *VERY* slow in my case.)
3. Focus on the Family
Of course, we believe that these three things are very much intertwined...
Oh, one more thing. If anyone wonders, my sig. is a verse from The Book of Mormon.
, we don't wear them *ALL* the time. I was just being general. Oh, and I didn't run off. As a matter of fact I was thinking the same thing about *you*, as you owe me a few emails. Check your inbox you slacker.@Eran: Brownies *rock* or Jell-o.
You know, since we're trying to answer questions, many people wonder what the 'bigger picture' is for Mormons. There are so many details that I don't want people to get too caught up in. Here's the birds eye view (IMHO):
1. Worship God
2. Perfect yourself (this is a slow process... *VERY* slow in my case.)
3. Focus on the Family
Of course, we believe that these three things are very much intertwined...
Oh, one more thing. If anyone wonders, my sig. is a verse from The Book of Mormon.
Newawd
Chieftain
Lol. Looks like we've got a full house online right now.
@Matt: Try to remember to say, "Docterine and Covenants", as most people in this forum don't know "Mormon lingo". It's a book with mostly revelations that have been received since the church was restored in the early 1800s.
Oh, that's another thing that we believe that is a bit different from many other religions. We believe that God has revealed many things, but that he's not done. He still reveals important 'stuff' to people that He chooses in modern days.
@Methos: In all honesty, it could be argued that many youths of other faiths know the bible better than LDS youths. Keep in mind though, that there are more scriptures that we try to familiarize ourselves with. While it is true that some (definately not all) people lack knowledge of *specific* biblical passages, one could argue that due to the breadth of thier studies, LDS youths have a greater understanding of the scriptures in general. Of course, if somebody starts out smarter than other kids, that might also be reflected in something like that. How were your grades compared to some of those other kids?
<<EDIT>> Oh, and nobody would mind if somebody came just to study.
@Matt: Try to remember to say, "Docterine and Covenants", as most people in this forum don't know "Mormon lingo". It's a book with mostly revelations that have been received since the church was restored in the early 1800s.
Oh, that's another thing that we believe that is a bit different from many other religions. We believe that God has revealed many things, but that he's not done. He still reveals important 'stuff' to people that He chooses in modern days.
@Methos: In all honesty, it could be argued that many youths of other faiths know the bible better than LDS youths. Keep in mind though, that there are more scriptures that we try to familiarize ourselves with. While it is true that some (definately not all) people lack knowledge of *specific* biblical passages, one could argue that due to the breadth of thier studies, LDS youths have a greater understanding of the scriptures in general. Of course, if somebody starts out smarter than other kids, that might also be reflected in something like that. How were your grades compared to some of those other kids?
<<EDIT>> Oh, and nobody would mind if somebody came just to study.
Although bear in mind that Mormons have a very different interpretation of some verses of the Bible from anyone else, and on the whole our interpretation is unique. Thus a non-Mormon would not get out of it what a Mormon would.
And actually, I found that I had a better understanding of the Bible than many of my friends - or at least so it seemed to me. I went to a Catholic high school and in religion class I was usually the one who had all the answers to Bible-related questions. Your mileage may vary, though.
And actually, I found that I had a better understanding of the Bible than many of my friends - or at least so it seemed to me. I went to a Catholic high school and in religion class I was usually the one who had all the answers to Bible-related questions. Your mileage may vary, though.
Newawd
Chieftain
@Eran, I am the same way (as far as bible knowledge). Unfortunately, some of my friends who were LDS were... less knowledgeable of the Bible. I don't mean to sound snooty, but it is true. Of course, there were a few guys that knew way more than me too.
See, when you spend X hours studying 1 book, you are going to be more familiar with it than you would be if you spent the same amount of time studying 2 books (or 3, or 4...). Now, if both books are teaching the same principles from two different angles, then I would say that you would have a better understanding of the principles by studying the two books for an hour than you would if you studied the one book for an hour.
Geesh. Listen to me. I sound like I'm about to write a word problem for an algebra test.
@Methos: We incorporate the Book of Mormon into all of the classes that we have. See, in our eyes the two aren't so much two seperate entities. It's like... say... the Old Testament and the New Testament. You may have a class that focuses on the New Testament (like some of my classes at BYU), but even in those classes, you will discuss and use parts from the Old Testament. Did that make sense?
@Eran: I must say that I don't completely agree with you. I think that our interpretation is not so unique. There are some aspects of the bible that we do interpret differently, but the vast majority I'd say is like mainstream christains (IMHO). I don't need to point out that Sir Bugsy would problaby not share my opinion on that point.
See, when you spend X hours studying 1 book, you are going to be more familiar with it than you would be if you spent the same amount of time studying 2 books (or 3, or 4...). Now, if both books are teaching the same principles from two different angles, then I would say that you would have a better understanding of the principles by studying the two books for an hour than you would if you studied the one book for an hour.
Geesh. Listen to me. I sound like I'm about to write a word problem for an algebra test.
@Methos: We incorporate the Book of Mormon into all of the classes that we have. See, in our eyes the two aren't so much two seperate entities. It's like... say... the Old Testament and the New Testament. You may have a class that focuses on the New Testament (like some of my classes at BYU), but even in those classes, you will discuss and use parts from the Old Testament. Did that make sense?
@Eran: I must say that I don't completely agree with you. I think that our interpretation is not so unique. There are some aspects of the bible that we do interpret differently, but the vast majority I'd say is like mainstream christains (IMHO). I don't need to point out that Sir Bugsy would problaby not share my opinion on that point.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
I am not sure if this has been asked. Does the Mormon faith practace Closed or Open Communion? I know that the Catholic Church, Baptists, and Christian Orthodoxy practace Closed Communion where they restrict communion to members of the church and thoes who are in a state of Grace and in full communion. While Open Communion is practiced in the Episcopal/Angian, Lutheran, and Methodist Church.
It is open in practice. The purpose of the sacrament (what we call the communion) is for members to renew the covenants we make at baptism; since, for various reasons, we only consider baptisms done in our church to be valid, the only people who would be making these covenants are members of the church, and various church leaders have said that therefore there is no reason to give the sacrament to nonmembers. However, since it is administered by passing the bread and water in trays throughout the pews (rather than having members go to the front of the chapel to receive it) sometimes visiting nonmembers take it anyways, and we don't make a big deal about it - they can if they want to, even if we don't consider it to have the same meaning for them.
Incidentally, my college religion class went to a Greek Orthodox service once (the TA was a deacon there) and although the communion was restricted to members of their church, after the service there was a sort of communion for nonmembers.
Incidentally, my college religion class went to a Greek Orthodox service once (the TA was a deacon there) and although the communion was restricted to members of their church, after the service there was a sort of communion for nonmembers.
CivGeneral said:
I'm Baptist and don't recall having a closed Communion. In our Church everyone was allowed to partake. I believe it being a small town (population 900) may have had some influence to that. In general, though, I have never heard of a Baptist Church not allowing someone to partake. I do not have any proof either way other than my experience.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
You didn't read the stuff I put in there very well did you.Newawd said:
1. Unlike Mormons, we don't consider Martin Luther to be a prophet. Therefore, just because he said something, doesn't make it so.
2. Unlike Mormons, we do not believe our leaders are infallable.
3. If you had read one of my posts, you would know that the core of our Christian beliefs is the Augsburg Confessions. I am not going to repeat what I posted earlier.
We dont really consider Luther to be a prophet per say....(Luther didnt restore the gospel or anything), but a guy that had some really good ideas, that needed to be brought out, before the church could be restored.
We also dont believe our leaders to be infallable in the sense that they cant do wrong. Any historian worth his weight knows that Joesph Smith was far from being a perfect indiviudal, and even some of his administrative posistions were less than enlightened
We also dont believe our leaders to be infallable in the sense that they cant do wrong. Any historian worth his weight knows that Joesph Smith was far from being a perfect indiviudal, and even some of his administrative posistions were less than enlightened
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I find this idea to be indefensible. Jesus requires two things to have a valid baptism, water and word. The word being: "baptised in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."Eran of Arcadia said:
Matthew 28:19 - KJV
No where does he say who can be baptized other than "all nations" So there are no age restrictions.
No where does he say who has to do the baptizing other than "ye."
Lutherans consider baptism to be one of two sacraments created by Jesus. The other is the supper. Lutherans, like Baptists, will allow anyone to partake of the Lord's Supper. The Lord did not give any restrictions on who can partake.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
OK, I didn't say that right. I meant that Lutherans don't consider our founder to be a prophet, unlike Mormons. As for restoring the Gospel, that has never been necessary. It was never lost. (edited)MattBrown said:
Actually, that isn't true.MattBrown said:
From your Articles of Faith 1:9:
Merzbow
Disrecognized Space
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This thread and reading the BoM have gotten me curious enough that I'm going to pop into a nearby Mormon church tomorrow and see what it's all about. From what I read I'm expecting a service more informal than most Christian services, with some organized 'extracurricular activites' afterwards (Gospel study, plus a third hour of stuff I'm not exactly sure of). Should be interesting.
Tell us how it goes and what you think of it.
And I'm not sure if its been asked or mentioned, but do all sermons/sacrement meetings have the same basic theme everywhere you go regardless of where? Say at church A they're talking about X, and at the same time in a church miles and miles away they are talking about the exact same X
Okay I know this isn't going to make much sense to me(or anyone) but to my 4-in-the-morning-up-since-dawn brain it makes perfect sense
And I'm not sure if its been asked or mentioned, but do all sermons/sacrement meetings have the same basic theme everywhere you go regardless of where? Say at church A they're talking about X, and at the same time in a church miles and miles away they are talking about the exact same X
Okay I know this isn't going to make much sense to me(or anyone) but to my 4-in-the-morning-up-since-dawn brain it makes perfect sense
@Esckey: Although we use the same study materials throughout the church for Sunday school, the topic of the sacrament meeting is chosen by the local leadership several weeks prior (and invitations to speak on that topic extended to members in advance) so that part will be different in any given congregation. Although the first Sunday of (most) months is known everywhere as 'Fast Sunday', and during the first part members have the opportunity to address the congregation briefly on their feelings towards the Gospel and the church.
@Sir Bugsy: If nothing was lost from the original church, why the need for a Reformation? Why couldn't you just be Catholic (or Orthodox, for that matter, as they are often overlooked)?
And we have never claimed that everything a prophet says in infallible. Joseph Smith said, 'a prophet is a prophet only when acting as such' (sorry, don't have the exact quote) and there is a process by which the words of a prophet are determined to be canonical.
Additionally, within the Bible (don't have exact cites, but I can find them on request) that indicate that just calling a ritual a baptism doesn't make it valid - there is a process that has to be followed, and it must be done by someone authorized to do it. In Acts someone rebaptizes a bunch of people who had previously been baptized incorrectly. The Bible doesn't explain thoroughly exactly what is required for a valid baptism, (and often is a little contradictory on this point) but that is just one of the many reasons we need modern revelation and modern prophets.
@Sir Bugsy: If nothing was lost from the original church, why the need for a Reformation? Why couldn't you just be Catholic (or Orthodox, for that matter, as they are often overlooked)?
And we have never claimed that everything a prophet says in infallible. Joseph Smith said, 'a prophet is a prophet only when acting as such' (sorry, don't have the exact quote) and there is a process by which the words of a prophet are determined to be canonical.
Additionally, within the Bible (don't have exact cites, but I can find them on request) that indicate that just calling a ritual a baptism doesn't make it valid - there is a process that has to be followed, and it must be done by someone authorized to do it. In Acts someone rebaptizes a bunch of people who had previously been baptized incorrectly. The Bible doesn't explain thoroughly exactly what is required for a valid baptism, (and often is a little contradictory on this point) but that is just one of the many reasons we need modern revelation and modern prophets.
What's the point of the fasting every first Sunday?
@EoA: I'm curious as to exactly where in the Bible it speaks of the being Baptized wrong. I don't recall that and am curious.
@Newawd: Emily and I passed your wife Saturday morning. We waved but she didn't notice us.
Thanks for the quote Bugs.
I disagree with the above quote big time. It's already been mentioned that Joseph Smith was just a man and a sinner. So how is it you can state, or believe, that any statement they make is considered as scripture? Plus, if a Mormon considers his statements as scripture than why is there a need for modernization?
@EoA: I'm curious as to exactly where in the Bible it speaks of the being Baptized wrong. I don't recall that and am curious.
@Newawd: Emily and I passed your wife Saturday morning. We waved but she didn't notice us.
Articles of Faith 1:9 said:
Thanks for the quote Bugs.
I disagree with the above quote big time. It's already been mentioned that Joseph Smith was just a man and a sinner. So how is it you can state, or believe, that any statement they make is considered as scripture? Plus, if a Mormon considers his statements as scripture than why is there a need for modernization?
Merzbow
Disrecognized Space
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I and my wife dropped into the local Mormon service this morning (dressed up of course). We stayed for the sacrament and the intro gospel course, but had to leave before the mysterious third hour (because she was falling asleep).
I thought it was great how regular congregants would speak during the sacrament with their own stories, etc. instead of some paid priest. Definitely it was very noisy with all the kids though, but I suppose people just get used to it. The gospel class was good also, really nice people. I'll probably go again next week (although my wife will likely just hang around for sacrament to give me company since she's pretty strongly non-Christian).
I thought it was great how regular congregants would speak during the sacrament with their own stories, etc. instead of some paid priest. Definitely it was very noisy with all the kids though, but I suppose people just get used to it. The gospel class was good also, really nice people. I'll probably go again next week (although my wife will likely just hang around for sacrament to give me company since she's pretty strongly non-Christian).
Merzbow
Disrecognized Space
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Methos said:
All prophets were men just like us, and by definition sinners (except for Jesus of course, who was perfect). Why should the fact that a man is imperfect exclude him from being a prophet? It's not a question of just Joseph Smith, you would have to throw out Moses, etc.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
You are talking apples and oranges. Are we talking about the Gospel or the church? You originally said Gospel.Eran of Arcadia said:
If we are talking the Gospel, nothing has been lost. In fact, the Mormon church will only read a translation that is written in Middle (Shakespearean) English... the King James version.
If we are talking about the Roman Catholic church of 1517, this is once again ground I've already covered. See my posting on the 95 Thesis.
