MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster A
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
smackster
SGOTM
Alan,
Got it, pretty obvious really. They both produce the same, but if the slider is more science than gold then the Uni has more value at that point. We were generally getting the Bank one turn ahead of a Uni so that is what I built. Now I see that was wrong. We keep learning
Smackster
Got it, pretty obvious really. They both produce the same, but if the slider is more science than gold then the Uni has more value at that point. We were generally getting the Bank one turn ahead of a Uni so that is what I built. Now I see that was wrong. We keep learning
Smackster
@Smackster: It's not a big deal, just every little helps at this stage.
Here's a suggested Operation Stone Age campaign map.
Blue is attacks on rubber plantations, Yellow for oil fields and orange, a major run across the centre of China (aka Korea-if-you-insist) to disrupt Beijing. I think we can land all these forces in a single turn from neutral waters in the turn we declare war if we get the chance to control the timing. Most of them can then reach their objectives one or two turns later. Using explorers we have the choice of having them run 5 tiles from the defence stack, pillage and die, or run two tiles, pillage and return to safety to do it again next turn. Infantry armies have to be the defensive shield of choice. With a total defence of 30 points only a tank army would attack. Cavalry cover would move faster, but only rates 9 defence and would certainly be attacked by any army the Han have available.
Click the reduced image to see a full size version in another window. Hee-hee! It worked!
Here's a suggested Operation Stone Age campaign map.
Blue is attacks on rubber plantations, Yellow for oil fields and orange, a major run across the centre of China (aka Korea-if-you-insist) to disrupt Beijing. I think we can land all these forces in a single turn from neutral waters in the turn we declare war if we get the chance to control the timing. Most of them can then reach their objectives one or two turns later. Using explorers we have the choice of having them run 5 tiles from the defence stack, pillage and die, or run two tiles, pillage and return to safety to do it again next turn. Infantry armies have to be the defensive shield of choice. With a total defence of 30 points only a tank army would attack. Cavalry cover would move faster, but only rates 9 defence and would certainly be attacked by any army the Han have available.
Click the reduced image to see a full size version in another window. Hee-hee! It worked!
smackster
SGOTM
I think we should be able to drop the explorers off before war and Han wont be able to remove them as the exploreres have no offense. Then get them in place for the turn we declare war, should make it less hairy.
Actually, since our reputation is already trashed...
Let's remember they were willing to give us a RoP for Electronics some time ago... :devil2:
Let's remember they were willing to give us a RoP for Electronics some time ago... :devil2:
Problem with that is we want the main expeditionary force "Orange brigade" to rampage across China-aka-Korea and wreak havoc, and we might want to do the same with the other teams as well.
Note also that I think the best way to take out their Shantung oil supply is to capture Shantung. Otherwise we have to pillage all their land routes AND blockade the harbour. Shantung is actually the most challenging resource location on the map. It's a long way from anywhere, and we'll need to take a strong force. There's another oil well nearby also, plus a lot of their gem colonies.
And they would give us ROP plus 2 times lux for Steel now. However, I'm not sure about letting the Han wander around all over our territory just yet
. They are just as likely to RoP rape us, specially while we are weaker then them.
Yes, we may want to do that when we are just about to start the war.
The risk is high otherwise.
The Stone Age Operation seems to take shape!
The main pillaging force would be Orange, as I understand it. It would also be nice to land a pillaging force where we plan to start the invasion.
Plus, say a transport for each one of the other targets.
Looks like say 60 - 70 Explorers. Ambitious, interesting plan...
Shantung might really be a problem. I wouldn't like to send a massive force there.
But if we manage to disconnect Beijing, we could leave one or two cities connected to a resource and still send them to the Stone Age.
Same if we decide not to build too many explorers... there is room for descoping.
The risk is high otherwise.
The Stone Age Operation seems to take shape!
The main pillaging force would be Orange, as I understand it. It would also be nice to land a pillaging force where we plan to start the invasion.
Plus, say a transport for each one of the other targets.
Looks like say 60 - 70 Explorers. Ambitious, interesting plan...
Shantung might really be a problem. I wouldn't like to send a massive force there.
But if we manage to disconnect Beijing, we could leave one or two cities connected to a resource and still send them to the Stone Age.
Same if we decide not to build too many explorers... there is room for descoping.
You're right, we only need to pillage Beijing to disconnect ALL their lux and resources, so the Orange force has to be our big push. They'll switch to Communism pretty quickly, so corruption will be evenly distributed. So our production pillaging around the cities with the biggest populations and most developed tiles, and that points to the Orange force again.
I'm now thinking there are really maybe two primary invasion forces. One from Sagimihara to Kunsan along the northern yellow route, the other along the Orange route. The Orange force would include the suicidal pillagers plus a full scale invasion force to cut straight into the Chinese heartland. A third force could wipe out the Han cities in our Shimazu territory and then cross from our northern lands to take the Han's western island.
I'm now thinking there are really maybe two primary invasion forces. One from Sagimihara to Kunsan along the northern yellow route, the other along the Orange route. The Orange force would include the suicidal pillagers plus a full scale invasion force to cut straight into the Chinese heartland. A third force could wipe out the Han cities in our Shimazu territory and then cross from our northern lands to take the Han's western island.
I thought you were considering the pillaging expeditions to the other resources as backups and diversions.
In this respect, I think we should send a load of suicide Explorers to precede our main invasion force, and possibly to some other corner of the map.
On the other hand, two or three raiding groups are going to be easier to manage.
A good compromise could be be what you propose plus a smaller group (make it one or two transports max) to the Shantung area, with some chances to get to Beijing from the other side.
I suddenly recalled that it takes *two* pillages to completely clear a railroaded tile. This reduces the range of our explorers...
In this respect, I think we should send a load of suicide Explorers to precede our main invasion force, and possibly to some other corner of the map.
On the other hand, two or three raiding groups are going to be easier to manage.
A good compromise could be be what you propose plus a smaller group (make it one or two transports max) to the Shantung area, with some chances to get to Beijing from the other side.
I suddenly recalled that it takes *two* pillages to completely clear a railroaded tile. This reduces the range of our explorers...
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I played two turns last night. The Han still have not researched steel, so we are at least two turns ahead of them. I have a feeling they might research espionage also. That would be a huge break for us.
On turn two I got a settler and defense planted in a crevice in former Baejke lands at about the location of our last beachheach city.
I figure all of my turns and most of Alan's will be used setting up karasu for the war to begin.
I'm having fun finding tiles that weren't improved in our core to try and optimize production. Working on the railroad with all our workers is a lot of work. Hopefully I'll be able to post tonight or after church in the AM.
I'm presently on my wife's machine. She's having trouble getting the latest version of Myst to work, so I'm downloading some drivers. If she's playing Uru, then I can play civ without interruption
On turn two I got a settler and defense planted in a crevice in former Baejke lands at about the location of our last beachheach city.
I figure all of my turns and most of Alan's will be used setting up karasu for the war to begin.
I'm having fun finding tiles that weren't improved in our core to try and optimize production. Working on the railroad with all our workers is a lot of work. Hopefully I'll be able to post tonight or after church in the AM.
I'm presently on my wife's machine. She's having trouble getting the latest version of Myst to work, so I'm downloading some drivers. If she's playing Uru, then I can play civ without interruption
Not that I like fighting that much (ask Ted if you don't believe me... )Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
If she's playing Uru, then I can play civ without interruption
talking about diversions... 
No it doesn't. It doubles the number of suicide explorers to clear a tile. That was my calculation way back when, when I was considering doing a surgical strike on Beijing's mountains and hills during our last war, using the Orange route, and I incuded two explorers per tile in my calculations at that time.
Yes, they do seem to be focused on the top half of the tree.
By my reckoning there's no 3x3 tile space, so you must have a culture overlap with one of the adjacent cities. I'd be surprised if that city lasts twenty turns before it flips, given the huge Han culture, and the relative distances from the two capitals. Still, it's a gamble that might come off, and if it does we'll have a great beach-head for the northern invasion route.
You've presumably not had a declaration by the Han yet. Any idea what those Han Cavalry and Infantry are doing on the north eastern island?
Good luck, Bugs.
After your post and my reply, I came to the conclusion that we'd better leave Shantung out of the invasion plans. It's a very long away from anywhere, and it needs a force capable of capturing a major city. I think it's a waste of resources. I still like the two prong approach from our west coast ...
Click the image for a full size version.
As I've been quiet for ages, and hardly posted anything today 
, here's another point to ponder:
We have lots of corrupt cities. Several of them are producing wealth, which gives us one gpt. But they have citizens beavering away producing nothing but food for more citizens. We could get one or two or three gpt from those citizens if they were taxmen. We could then change production to workers to join to more productive cities, or explorers to be rushed later, or Kamikaze pre-builds or whatever. One spt is worth more than one gpt, so Wealth is not a good deal in my view.
, here's another point to ponder:We have lots of corrupt cities. Several of them are producing wealth, which gives us one gpt. But they have citizens beavering away producing nothing but food for more citizens. We could get one or two or three gpt from those citizens if they were taxmen. We could then change production to workers to join to more productive cities, or explorers to be rushed later, or Kamikaze pre-builds or whatever. One spt is worth more than one gpt, so Wealth is not a good deal in my view.
smackster
SGOTM
I spent half my turn on the last go making citizens in corrupt cities taxmen. Seems like the governor likes to change it all back. The other half was moving workers about.
My point is about the production of Wealth, which I believe to be wasteful. Changing citizens to taxmen was only a suggestion to try to compensate for the loss of a gpt. Apologies, I only looked at a couple of the Wealth cities and it looked like we could get more gpt out of them by using taxmen than we do at present using Wealth. Maybe the rest are all producing as much tax as they can already 
. However, I still suspect that it's a false economy to produce Wealth in lots of cities as a way to bolster our gpt. I think accumulated shields would be more valuable in the long run.
Re Governors: Taxmen will revert to producers if there are too many, and the city starves, but as long as there is zero or positive food production the taxmen should stay that way.
. However, I still suspect that it's a false economy to produce Wealth in lots of cities as a way to bolster our gpt. I think accumulated shields would be more valuable in the long run.Re Governors: Taxmen will revert to producers if there are too many, and the city starves, but as long as there is zero or positive food production the taxmen should stay that way.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
Edit: I know. Too muchWhere's cracker to back me up on this one?
You may be the only fully aware one in the bunch since no one else has confessed to noticing. The entire map in this game was and is an easter egg. The Korean continent was stylized a bit in order to not be too obvious in the original game but the Japanese home islands are precisely implemented. Even the major volcanic mountains are precisely located and if you pay attention you can easily locate Mount Fuji. The Oda start position was right in the middle of Honshu and fairly historically accurate.
The wrap around feature was not real world, but then who would be picking nits.
Now look at this map and tell me honestly that you cannot see Korea and Japan (minus the North Islands and Okinawa).
Very neat, Cracker 
I fully acknowledge Bugsy's clear grasp of Pacific geography, which we discovered very early on during the game. My only beef is that, for us, Korea died a while back, and the current occupants of the "Korean peninsula" are the Han, so calling it Korea just confuses this bear of very little brain 
I fully acknowledge Bugsy's clear grasp of Pacific geography, which we discovered very early on during the game. My only beef is that, for us, Korea died a while back, and the current occupants of the "Korean peninsula" are the Han, so calling it Korea just confuses this bear of very little brain 
