Melcher's Leaderheads

[melcher kürzer]

Fantastic leaderheads!Who's next?

Thanks!
Frederick I., also known as Barbarossa

Maybe you can make Queen Seondeok of Silla.Nobody has requested her ever.

Very unlikely.

Since you have already redone Catherine in Civ5 fashion, I'd really like to see a similar Harun al-Rashid. The Arabian civ still lacks a genuinely Arab leader (Saladin being an Egyptian Sultan) and he really deserves to be done by you.

Plus, he'll immediately feature prominently the "The Sword of Islam" mod.

It's only a suggestion, though. Do want you want, it has always turned out right so far

I have thought about an Arabian leader too. But i'm not sure i will do one.
And if Capo is already working on him there is no need to make him.

Anyways, i'm getting a lot of help requests currently, so it will take a while until the next release.

 

[cybrxkhan]

@Leoreth: Yeah, The Capo is making Harun, although he has been gone for a while (supposedly he's in the process of moving, so it might just be he hasn't gotten a good connection set up).

I am in the process of making an Umar LH (he was the second Caliph, if I remember correctly), you can check my LHs thread to see a really bad preview of him, but I can get back to work on him if you need some Arab LH soon.

 

[Leoreth]

It's just that Da Capo doesn't seem to be that active in LH making anymore (and even if he returns to Civ4 modding he still has a whole own mod to take care of).

But I'm not going to complain because Frederick Barbarossa is just as awesome!

 

[IgorS]

Thanks!
Frederick I., also known as Barbarossa

But I already made Barbarossa... Are you going to make a totally new LH or improve mine? (I'd prefer the second option)

 

[Yoshiegg737]

But I already made Barbarossa... Are you going to make a totally new LH or improve mine? (I'd prefer the second option)

Well normally, Melcher doesn't really make Barbarossa. He makes something similar to it and calls it Barbarossa

Oh, I don't know if this time will be different, but the LH's always turn out great

 

[melcher kürzer]

But I already made Barbarossa... Are you going to make a totally new LH or improve mine? (I'd prefer the second option)

Oh! Actually Barbarossa will be a thankyou for the RFC:E team for all their work. But i promise i will try to avoid doing LHs which are already done by the community in the future. Don't want to disappoint someone.
I will take a look at your version and decide afterwards if i will use and improve your Barbarossa.

Well normally, Melcher doesn't really make Barbarossa. He makes something similar to it and calls it Barbarossa

So, what's the difference to any other LH-maker? It's always like that, isn't it?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Thanks!
Frederick I., also known as Barbarossa

Awesome, thanks!

But I'm not going to complain because Frederick Barbarossa is just as awesome!

Indeed it is

 

[Leoreth]

Oh! Actually Barbarossa will be a thankyou for the RFC:E team for all their work. But i promise i will try to avoid doing LHs which are already done by the community in the future. Don't want to disappoint someone.
I will take a look at your version and decide afterwards if i will use and improve your Barbarossa.

I don't think you should worry about these things. It's like saying you offended Firaxis by remaking Isabella or Catherine.

LH making should not be about "first come, first serve". Different LH makers have different impressions about the same historical characters, and it should be up to the players/modders to decide which suits them best in the end.

 

[AbsintheRed]

But I already made Barbarossa... Are you going to make a totally new LH or improve mine? (I'd prefer the second option)

Oh! Actually Barbarossa will be a thankyou for the RFC:E team for all their work. But i promise i will try to avoid doing LHs which are already done by the community in the future. Don't want to disappoint someone.
I will take a look at your version and decide afterwards if i will use and improve your Barbarossa.

I don't think it's an issue at all if you remake an older LH.
The modding community provided 500? 800? LHs during the last couple years
It's inevitable every now and then to choose a leader that was already made.
Also, there is a wide variety on the quality of these leaders
In this case, I tried quite a few ones, but wasn't able to use any of the existing LHs as a decent Barbarossa in RFCE

Melcher, in my opinion the top quality work you do on your leaders can replace almost all the existing LHs - including Firaxis ones
Also, the theme you follow with your LHs fits the game much more than the original cartoon-style LHs
Most modders followed the Firaxis line. Either they preferred this style or didn't have the skill to create something different...

EDIT: crosspost with Leoreth
But it seems we absolutely agree

 

[IgorS]

Oh! Actually Barbarossa will be a thankyou for the RFC:E team for all their work. But i promise i will try to avoid doing LHs which are already done by the community in the future. Don't want to disappoint someone.
I will take a look at your version and decide afterwards if i will use and improve your Barbarossa.

I think you should definitely improve mine because of three reasons:
1. You don't need to start from scratch (and you don't have to look for a background, as I made one).
2. My LH is unique as it is based on Oconostota, and I think it is the only LH based on him.
3. The LH could really use your skills to make it look the way it is supposed to. In other words, please take my Barbarossa and give him better clothes.

The link to my gallery can be found in my signature.

So, what's the difference to any other LH-maker? It's always like that, isn't it?

No, it is not. When I made my LHs I intended them to be who they are supposed to be. I looked at pictures and images to make them as accurate as possible (and as much as my skills allowed). My Barbarossa is supposed to be Barbarossa. It can be used as any other HR emperor only because we don't have photos and accurate images of him. This is also true for most of your LHs. But look at your Isabella and Catherine - they can't be used as anybody else, so don't tell me that you don't want to be accurate when making at least some of your LHs.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I think you should definitely improve mine because of three reasons:
1. You don't need to start from scratch (and you don't have to look for a background, as I made one).
2. My LH is unique as it is based on Oconostota, and I think it is the only LH based on him.
3. The LH could really use your skills to make it look the way it is supposed to. In other words, please take my Barbarossa and give him better clothes.

The link to my gallery can be found in my signature.

No, it is not. When I made my LHs I intended them to be who they are supposed to be. I looked at pictures and images to make them as accurate as possible (and as much as my skills allowed). My Barbarossa is supposed to be Barbarossa. It can be used as any other HR emperor only because we don't have photos and accurate images of him. This is also true for most of your LHs. But look at your Isabella and Catherine - they can't be used as anybody else, so don't tell me that you don't want to be accurate when making at least some of your LHs.

When I retexture an LH to use him, I look for LH's that actually looks like the LH. So IgorS is definitely right on that part. A good excample will be the Zimbabwe-civ me and Cybr is working on. Two retxtured LH's chosen mainly because of their likeness and their low chance of use (I mean, who's going to use the curennt president of Italy as leader... at leas not me).

So yes, it does matter, the looks of the LH, and the degree it does depends on the avaible pictures of that leader. Create a sub-saharan african leader, and it does not matter that much because of few pictures to base on, so then the solution is to make him quite generic. Cybr's mutapa is a good example for such a leader, but in usual, the more sources you have, the more alike he should be.

Guys, why don't you just leave melcher to do these things the way he wants to?
He already proved quite a few times that he is more than capable of creating something great, while keeping it both unique and historical
He may use some parts of the earlier LHs as base, if it's fits the concept he imagines. But why would you want to bring pressure on him??

 

[melcher kürzer]

...
No, it is not. When I made my LHs I intended them to be who they are supposed to be. I looked at pictures and images to make them as accurate as possible (and as much as my skills allowed). My Barbarossa is supposed to be Barbarossa. It can be used as any other HR emperor only because we don't have photos and accurate images of him. This is also true for most of your LHs. But look at your Isabella and Catherine - they can't be used as anybody else, so don't tell me that you don't want to be accurate when making at least some of your LHs.

....
So yes, it does matter, the looks of the LH, and the degree it does depends on the avaible pictures of that leader. Create a sub-saharan african leader, and it does not matter that much because of few pictures to base on, so then the solution is to make him quite generic. Cybr's mutapa is a good example for such a leader, but in usual, the more sources you have, the more alike he should be.

Of course both of you are right. But it's the same what i was trying to say. You make something more or less similar (based on available informations) to the leader you want and then give him/her the intended name.

Edit:

...
He may use some parts of the earlier LHs as base, if it's fits the concept he imagines...

Exactly.

 

[IgorS]

Guys, why don't you just leave melcher to do these things the way he wants to?
He already proved quite a few times that he is more than capable of creating something great, while keeping it both unique and historical
He may use some parts of the earlier LHs as base, if it's fits the concept he imagines. But why would you want to bring pressure on him??

Nobody is pressuring. We're just giving ideas as we are also LH makers. I don't think you should make a completely new LH if there is already a LH (that is not a reskin) you can improve.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I don't think you should make a completely new LH if there is already a LH (that is not a reskin) you can improve.

That's where we disagree
If the creator prefers/imagines a totally new concept, why do you think he/she should stick to the previous one, and only improve someone else's ideas?
As Leoreth said a few hours ago, and I absolutely agree with it:
"LH making should not be about "first come, first serve". Different LH makers have different impressions about the same historical characters, and it should be up to the players/modders to decide which suits them best in the end."

 

[AbsintheRed]

Really?
I don't want to argue about this or anything, but do you guys really think melcher shouldn't have made a totally new Isabella and Catherine, rather improve the original Firaxis LHs concept?

 

[Ekmek]

Personally, I'm happy that MElcher did (re-did) Zenobia. It saved me time since I didnt have to upgrade it myself. and that means a lot consider how little time i have for LH making these days. Besides that his Zenobia is so awesome I grateful to just ahve it for the game!

 

[cybrxkhan]

So yes, it does matter, the looks of the LH, and the degree it does depends on the avaible pictures of that leader. Create a sub-saharan african leader, and it does not matter that much because of few pictures to base on, so then the solution is to make him quite generic. Cybr's mutapa is a good example for such a leader, but in usual, the more sources you have, the more alike he should be.

Actually, it's "Matope".

Anyhow, I guess I'm the lazy one here. I try to purposely find leaders without that much info on so I can just do whatever the heck I want, and if there is some info I try to take some artistic license.

But still, I think we can all agree that Melcher is producing some great leaderheads.

 

[IgorS]

Personally, I'm happy that MElcher did (re-did) Zenobia. It saved me time since I didnt have to upgrade it myself. and that means a lot consider how little time i have for LH making these days. Besides that his Zenobia is so awesome I grateful to just ahve it for the game!

Yeah, but your Zenobia was very old, when you just started making LH. This is also the reason I later made new versions of Henry (with your approval and help), Sobieski and Casimir.
I'm not saying Melcher shouldn't make a LH from scratch, I'm just saying: hey, there is already a pretty good Barbarossa out there that I worked hard on, that you can take and improve with your skills instead of making something from scrath. Feel free to use it as a base and do whatever you want with it, if this is the path you choose.

 

[melcher kürzer]

Just some quick last remark from me.
I wouldn't say i make improved versions of existing LHs. Basically i'm making my own version of LHs i want the way i like. So i think it really dosen't matter what i use as a base, because the result will most likely something complete diffrent. I just use stuff which is close to my concept.


Anyway, if you guys like i could post you some basic steps which i always do during the development of Barbarossa. Not the technically stuff how you do something (therefore there are enough good tutorials). More about what i do, when and why i do something.
Maybe it helps someone, maybe it's a bit interesting too. What do you think?

 

[Leoreth]

That sounds like a lot of work which I'd rather like to see invested in Barbarossa himself

And I'd like to say again don't use somebody else's work only because you think it would be impolite not to do so. Your leaderheads have turned out great when you did them the way you do.