Mickey Mouse Degrees

[MobBoss]

Nope. You typically don't speciallize all that much until you get an advanced degree other than in engineering, business, nursing, or some other program such as these. A BS or BA degree in virtually any other major means you are now ostensibly educated and qualifed enough to seek an advanced specialized degree.

That also means that any other discipline is typically going to have a much better general education than these will because the graduates will have taken far more upper level classes in a variety of different subjects.

Well, I am going to have to disagree with you on that. People dont go to college to get a general education.

High School = General
BS/BA = Advanced degree
Masters degree = Specialized degree

At least thats the way I look at it.

 

[Zelig]

Well, I am going to have to disagree with you on that. People dont go to college to get a general education.

That's pretty much the definition of a liberal arts degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts_college

"Liberal arts" can be defined as a "college or university curriculum aimed at imparting general knowledge and developing general intellectual capacities, in contrast to a professional, vocational, or technical curriculum."

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Almost everything under "studies" are of dubious quality.

This man speaks truth.

 

[Formaldehyde]

People dont go to college to get a general education..

People who actually want to get a well-rounded education instead of a good paying job as an engineer or businessman certainly do. It also explains why so many conservatives end up in in these disciplines in college. They really don't want to become better educated like the "elites" typically do. They simply want to make big bucks. Many are even so ignorant that they think they already know everything which is important to know, and so they actually resent their "liberal" professors showing them otherwise.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Well, I am going to have to disagree with you on that. People dont go to college to get a general education.

For a Bachelor's they sure do! That's why we have special vocational schools, and why you continue on for a Master's or PhD.: for more concentration and specialization.

 

[Patroklos]

People who actually want to get a well-rounded education instead of a good paying job as an engineer or businessman certainly do. It also explains why so many conservatives end up in in these disciplines in college. They really don't want to become better educated like the "elites" typically do. They simply want to make big bucks. Many are even so ignorant that they think they already know everything which is important to know, and so they actually resent their "liberal" professors showing them otherwise.

History and Political Science are packed with conservatives. Hell, some of the most staunch conservatives I know are English or language majors of some sort.

 

[Orange Seeds]

The pathetic battle of the faculties strikes a familiar course...

 

[Formaldehyde]

History and Political Science are packed with conservatives. Hell, some of the most staunch conservatives I know are English or language majors of some sort.

Right. A few examples to the contrary is why you almost never hear of the far-right anti-elites whining about "liberal professors".

Fox News: College Republicans Compiling List of Liberal Professors at Ohio School

UT College Republicans President Matt Rubin, a junior majoring in political science and public administration, says the list is not an attempt to bash professors who have liberal ideas, but an attempt to speak out for students who may have been victims of political bias.

The University of Toledo's College Republicans are compiling a list of liberal professors who they claimed have a bias against conservative students.

The list will include professors who students say have let their political views interfere with the way they interact with students in the classroom.

UT College Republicans President Matt Rubin, a junior majoring in political science and public administration, said the list is not an attempt to bash professors who have liberal ideas, but instead, it is an attempt to speak out for students who may have been victims of the bias, which was then reflected in their grade.

"We've been portrayed in the media, as well as comments from people in the community including College Democrats, saying that we're creating a blacklist in order to smear the names of professors and that's not true," Rubin said. "We're giving a voice to the students that have been harassed because of their political beliefs. It's the same thing as bashing a student because they're gay."

Rubin said the list of liberal professors is important because of the many complaints he received from students at UT College Republicans meetings, concerning professors who made unnecessary political comments, including anti-Bush statements.

Link to video.


Link to video.

I was shocked! Holy Cow!

 

[Earthling]

Form, I don't think you are right here - engineering and the sciences are by no means packed with conservative students. In fact, scientists and engineers generally consider themselves and their profession more centrist or liberal. You may be right about the generic "business degrees" which is a large percentage of people in college; I can see from anecdotal experience and maybe what I've read that they are more conservative. Other so-called "mickey mouse" degrees in sociology or criminal justice or whatever the football players major in may have lots of conservatives too; but I suspect these fields are pretty even to population norms, given that university students on the whole are more liberal. I also don't know how statistics go for other major fields like medical or law students (or pre-med/pre-law undergrads). But in the end, the technical fields may be more conservative than something clearly out there like art or gender studies, but they're still not conservative overall.

Edit: Oh yeah, of course it's also true that engineers tend to be more knowledgable and intelligent compared to most other disciplines, your analogy of "stupid engineers and business majors" is way off mark, sorry about your anecdotal dislike of one college what, 20-30 years ago, but that doesn't go for everyone.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Form, I don't think you are right here - engineering and the sciences are by no means packed with conservative students.

First, I never mentioned the sciences. Those seem to be relatively mixed regarding politics.

Second, it has certainly been my experience that engineers typically tend to be more conservative than liberal, although I cannot find a poll to help show this is actually true. YMMV.

dit: Oh yeah, of course it's also true that engineers tend to be more knowledgable and intelligent compared to most other disciplines, your analogy of "stupid engineers and business majors" is way off mark, sorry about your anecdotal dislike of one college what, 20-30 years ago, but that doesn't go for everyone.

Sorry, I never said anything even remotely like that. I guess you will have to find another straw man to do battle against.

And this doesn't have anything to do with your post, but addresses Pat's statement above:

"What is it like to be a conservative political science professor?"


Link to video.

 

[Earthling]

First, I never mentioned the sciences. Those seem to be relatively mixed regarding politics.

Second, it has certainly been my experience that engineers typically tend to be more conservative than liberal, although I cannot find a poll to help show this is actually true. YMMV.

No, it's not "YMMV" it's "Formaldehyde was wrong" The hard sciences/engineering are consistently moderate-to-liberal. And in fact the hard sciences are not politically mixed at all; if anything, they have some of the fewest percentages of conservatives for major fields. I think there have even been CFC threads around with discussion on the sciences, but Harvard will do for everyone (this is on professors, since that's what you're now arguing with Pat, and this could help too).

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~ngross/lounsbery_9-25.pdf

Edit: Otherwise, I was responding to statements like this; certainly not a strawman. It's clear you thought "business degrees" and "engineering" were both comparable to each other and both worse than "liberal arts" which isn't backed up by anything at all:

It is typically a far better education than what most engineers and business majors receive

People who actually want to get a well-rounded education instead of a good paying job as an engineer or businessman certainly do

 

[Formaldehyde]

Um, that study is about American professors, not students or people who are employed as engineers. And once again, I never claimed anything about scientists other than to state that people who are employed in that capacity are fairly mixed in their political views.

You also have my views concerning engineering and business majors wrong, even after quoting what I wrote.

Perhaps you should actually read what I have posted and respond to that, instead of continuing to manufacture straw men.

 

[MobBoss]

Um, that's American professors, not students or people who are employed as engineers. And once again, I never claimed anything about scientists.

Perhaps you should actually read what I have posted and respond to that, instead of continuing to manufacture straw men.

Rofl, how many times a day do you claim something is a straw man?

I mean, give it a rest already. Cause you have

 

[Patroklos]

Right. A few examples to the contrary is why you almost never hear of the far-right anti-elites whining about "liberal professors".

That would be relevant if we were talking about professors, but we were actually talking about STUDENTS.

Try again.

 

[MobBoss]

Tha would be relevant if we were talking about professors, but we were actually talking about STUDENTS.

Try again.

Wouldnt that be a straw man?

 

[Patroklos]

I am actually betting on another incorrect use of the word irony, he is due.

 

[Earthling]

I think it's justified that in the sciences/engineering the professor statistics should represent students pretty well, though I agree this would go less for something like sociology. There are virtually no studies of students/graduates out there broken down by major, but there are still useful proxies - note there are also age breakdowns that show younger professors also follow the same trends. The total percentage of liberals vs. conservatives in US colleges is also out there and such studies continue to show that university students are more liberal than the whole nation's population. If you're looking for data on something like first-year US university students, you're never going to find it, and that's not a good measure anyway.

 

[str8_probe23]

Sounds like a bit of a doss, probablly something you could do whilst learning on the job. But then not all that mickey mouse, definitely not as bad as media studies, psychology, film studies, david beckham studies, windsurfing, foundation art... the list is possibly endless! The number of people wasting £3k a year doing waste-of-time degrees is ridiculous... but then it is fun going to university, you'e paying for the experience as well.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Rofl, how many times a day do you claim something is a straw man?

Only when they are.

And here you are defending another who just used the same logical fallacy which you so frequently like to employ. Imagine that...

Want to try to demand another "apology" for me being "wrong"?

 

[Merkinball]

The hard sciences/engineering are consistently moderate-to-liberal. - Earthling

What? From what experience? Generally speaking science will be middle of the road and have many divergent political opinions. Engineering is...well, I don't know how to put this, but...it's exhaustively conservative. I have first hand experience from RIT, Clarkson, Syracuse, Buff. State, my little sister is a nuke engineering major at RPI, my other sister is getting her doctorate at the nano research facility at SUNY Albany. I have friends that work at MIT. ENGINEERING IS LOADED WITH CONSERVATIVES. I probably know one or two all out liberals from within my program, lots of libertarian oriented people, a few enviro-fascists, and that's about it. I worked at a research facility LOADED with engineers, and they're almost exclusively conservative. I play cards with a group of chemical engineers from Kodak, all conservative. All but one or two of my professors are conservative. The only time engineers love government is when it's giving them money.