minimum wage

[Berzerker]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...ether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/

low wage workers lose jobs as higher skilled workers become more valuable

why hire unskilled labor at $15/hr when a more productive, more skilled worker gets more done at ~$19/hr?

I didn't know this was unexpected news, but apparently past research couldn't figure that out...

 

[Narz]

We just need a universal basic income.

 

[Zkribbler]

When I see a blog talking about a "very credible" study which has not yet been peer reviewed, I have doubts.

 

[Birdjaguar]

We just need a universal basic income.

Does one get that even if you have a job? Would I get it in addition to social security? Would it be available to an able bodied person who chooses not to work or learn new skills needed to get a really good job?

 

[Synobun]

Does one get that even if you have a job? Would I get it in addition to social security? Would it be available to an able bodied person who chooses not to work or learn new skills needed to get a really good job?

Yes, it would replace social security, and yes.

It would operate much the same as income does now. Below a certain threshold, you don't pay taxes. Everyone gets it but if you're gainfully employed then most gets fed back into the system.

 

[civver_764]

One problem with the minimum wage is that it incentivizes illegal immigration. Kind of like how the drug war incentivizes gang violence.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Does one get that even if you have a job? Would I get it in addition to social security? Would it be available to an able bodied person who chooses not to work or learn new skills needed to get a really good job?

Universal is universal, that means everybody gets it regardless of other income. I see it as something that will become inevitable sooner or later because of automation induced unemployment. I just hope it happens within my lifetime.
It's probably less expensive than it sounds. With a UBI of 750-1000 € we could get rid of unemployment insurance, pensions, student assistance etc. Currently governments are paying for a lot of bureaucracy just to make sure that poor people don't get a penny more than they "deserve".
(Our equivalent of) payroll taxes could be slashed which would benefit workers and employers.

One problem with the minimum wage is that it incentivizes illegal immigration. Kind of like how the drug war incentivizes gang violence.

You could say that about everything that makes a country a good place to live in. If the wage in country A is higher than in country B, people will want to get from B to A. They don't really care if the higher wages are government mandated or not. The only way to get rid of illegal immigration is to destroy your society and economy on purpose or through mismanagement until no one will want to be there voluntarily, and then you'll still need a wall to keep people inside.

 

[civver_764]

You could say that about everything that makes a country a good place to live in. If the wage in country A is higher than in country B, people will want to get from B to A. They don't really care if the higher wages are government mandated or not. The only way to get rid of illegal immigration is to destroy your society and economy on purpose or through mismanagement until no one will want to be there volunarily, and then you'll still need a wall to keep people inside.

Sure. But minimum wages laws act as a double incentive here because they also push employers to hire illegal immigrants. My point is not that illegal immigrants come here in order to be paid minimum wage, it is that they are being hired here because they are the only people that don't have to be paid minimum wage.

 

[Synobun]

Sure. But minimum wages laws act as a double incentive here because they also push employers to hire illegal immigrants. My point is not that illegal immigrants come here in order to be paid minimum wage, it is that they are being hired here because they are the only people that don't have to be paid minimum wage.

Sounds like a predatory business problem instead of an illegal immigrant problem.

 

[civver_764]

Sounds like a predatory business problem instead of an illegal immigrant problem.

Call it whatever you want, I'm just pointing out an unfortunate side effect of minimum wage laws.

 

[Zelig]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...ether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/

low wage workers lose jobs as higher skilled workers become more valuable

why hire unskilled labor at $15/hr when a more productive, more skilled worker gets more done at ~$19/hr?

I didn't know this was unexpected news, but apparently past research couldn't figure that out...

I see this as a positive outcome. Let's keep raising the minimum wage.

 

[Borachio]

Call it whatever you want, I'm just pointing out an unfortunate side effect of minimum wage laws.

I don't think you're wrong.

But why stop at below minimum wages when the same argument could be applied to people trafficking and actual real-life modern slavery.

Would you say, then, that minimum wage laws encourage people trafficking?

 

[civver_764]

I don't think you're wrong.

But why stop at below minimum wages when the same argument could be applied to people trafficking and actual real-life modern slavery.

Would you say, then, that minimum wage laws encourage people trafficking?

That's a compelling thought Mr. Borachio. I think the difference here is that an illegal immigrant would readily agree to the less-than-minimum-wage job, but I don't think anybody would agree to be a slave.

 

[warpus]

One problem with the minimum wage is that it incentivizes illegal immigration. Kind of like how the drug war incentivizes gang violence.

That's like saying that a high standard of living incentivizes illegal immigration.. which while probably true is not a great reason to try to lower the general standard of living..

"We'll show those illegal immigrants, we'll make it worse here than they have it over there"

 

[Ajidica]

Call it whatever you want, I'm just pointing out an unfortunate side effect of minimum wage laws.

That like pointing out how a "side effect" of laws against child murder means we have to pay for people in prison.

EDIT: And what warpus said.

 

[civver_764]

That like pointing out how a "side effect" of laws against child murder means we have to pay for people in prison.

Lol how is that at all a good analogy?? It's much more like how laws against drug use encourage violent drug gangs, as mentioned in my original post.

 

[Ajidica]

Lol how is that at all a good analogy?? It's much more like how laws against drug use encourage violent drug gangs, as mentioned in my original post.

I dare say that keeping heroin illegal is more important than "won't someone think of the drug gangs!"

 

[civver_764]

Well this isn't the thread for that discussion, but you missed my point. It's not about the drug gangs themselves, it's about the negative consequences thereof.

 

[Ajidica]

Well this isn't the thread for that discussion, but you missed my point. It's not about the drug gangs themselves, it's about the negative consequences thereof.

Everything has negative consequences. But saying the minimum wage is bad because "it encourages hiring illegal immigrants" is basically the same thing as saying criminalization of heroin is bad because "it helps drug gangs".

 

[warpus]

Yeah I mean obviously making a country more awesome will lead to more people wanting to move there. And water is wet and so on..