minimum wage

[Zelig]

Even if that "freedom" condemns them to a life of poverty?

What relevance does that dichotomy have? Currently, people are stuck with menial jobs and poverty. They shouldn't be stuck with either.

You also assume that just because you hate working that everyone else does as well.

Nope, I love my job. It consists of automating away other people's jobs.

 

[Borachio]

I dare say that keeping heroin illegal is more important than "won't someone think of the drug gangs!"

I'm not sure I agree. If you were to make heroin legal then that would undermine the drug gangs. Make all drugs legal and the drug gangs would be forced to either turn legitimate or find some other lucrative illegal activity.

Not that I necessarily favour making drugs legal, though.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

If all drugs were legal (not something I'n favor of, legalizing heroin and meth is just as crazy as criminalizing marijuana) they would be heavily taxed like alcohol and cigarettes. Illegal labs and smuggling would still be profitable. Some drug gangs might go legit or sell their "business" to Merck or Bayer, but the crime would never really go away.

 

[Zkribbler]

I love my job. It consists of automating away other people's jobs.

So you're guy!

 

[warpus]

So you think it's good that people are losing their jobs because of this? You're all heart.

Got a citation that shows that a higher minimum wage tends to lead to significant job losses? Because from what I've read the job losses are minimal

 

[Berzerker]

If all drugs were legal (not something I'n favor of, legalizing heroin and meth is just as crazy as criminalizing marijuana) they would be heavily taxed like alcohol and cigarettes. Illegal labs and smuggling would still be profitable. Some drug gangs might go legit or sell their "business" to Merck or Bayer, but the crime would never really go away.

When was the last time alcohol dealers were having shootouts over market share? During Prohibition the homicide rate doubled, upon repeal the rate declined 13 years in a row to half the level... and doubled again during the 80s and the modern drug war. Thats a lot of crime that went away before a new drug war replaced it.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

When was the last time alcohol dealers were having shootouts over market share? During Prohibition the homicide rate doubled, upon repeal the rate declined 13 years in a row to half the level... and doubled again during the 80s and the modern drug war. Thats a lot of crime that went away before a new drug war replaced it.

Some crime went away, but the criminal organizations that arose during prohibition didn't. They just focused more on gambling, prostitution and still illegal drugs and they were still killing each other over it.
Now you can say that those things should also be legal, and I'd agree on gambling and prostitution, but even in legal German brothels there are girls who are forced into the trade. The associated crime never goes away completely.
You also can't really compare alcohol to heroin in terms of addictiveness, health risks and availability. When the USA banned alcohol it was still readily available in Canada, Mexico and Cuba which made bootlegging really easy. I just don't believe that legalizing really hard drugs would solve more problems than it would create. You just know that the Pharma industry would find a sneaky way to market meth to teenagers. The USA already has a opioid epidemic caused by perfectly legal "painkillers".

 

[civver_764]

Why should teenagers work for less than non teenagers when doing the same work?

I'm not saying they should... People only work for what they agree to, so I'm saying that some teenagers might want to work these low wage jobs. Why? Maybe to gain valuable skills. Maybe to help out a friend or family member. Maybe just for fun. I don't see why it should be restricted.

I am elderly. Retired in fact. Why should I, with 40 years of work experience, work for $4.00 an hour? Unskilled people might well have a family to support; child care to pay for; medical problems; live in a place without mass transit.

Again, I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying you should be allowed to. My Grandma is retired and she works a minimum wage job for fun. She doesn't need the money so much as she wants something to occupy her time with, that's why I mentioned elderly.

Unskilled people often work unpaid internships for a whopping $0/hr in order to gain experience that will vastly improve their earning potential. You think this should be allowed, but not if we raise it to $2/hr or $4/hr? What sense does that make?

So you jump to Kumbaya rather than answer the question? Why shouldn't business owners who employ illegals be prosecuted? If they didn't hire illegals much of the problem would go away.

This is besides the point. It's like saying "if people didn't sell heroin much of the problem would go away". That's true, but you're not addressing the root cause of the problem. It's just wishful thinking.

 

[Narz]

I want to free humanity from the clutches of menial labour.

How are you going about that?

 

[Farm Boy]

That's not the right question. You know we know the answer to that. We call it "innovating/repurposing/retraining for success" first and "unemployment" later, eventually settling on "queen" or "trash" or whatever the word for that becomes. The actual question is how one applies the definition of "menial" to labor. Lacking prestige. Now that's fraught.

 

[Zelig]

How are you going about that?

Like I said, I automate things for a living. Will probably take longer than my lifespan though.

The actual question is how one applies the definition of "menial" to labor.

I don't want anyone to have to work a job that they consider menial.

 

[Farm Boy]

What they consider menial is highly contingent upon what most people they interact with consider it. Being an RN is often gross. Considered if not prestigious then at least worthy. Being a Mom is often gross. Upper middle class spouse? Raising kids is prestigious-ish. Unless it's trophy-ish. Two kids and unemployed? Queen. Getting bit and **** on? Almost entirely besides the point.

But yes, hating half your day is a crappy way to live, surpassed by hating most of the whole day I suppose. I've often wondered if we should track suicide deaths or homicide deaths as a better indicator of social sickness. Maybe it's just two different sorts of disease.

Dunno!

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Cats and oranges have a lot of similarities

I am trying and failing to imagine what they are, unless you are talking about orange tabbies or calico/tortoiseshell cats, who often have patches or streaks of orange hair (along with black, white, brown, and grey).

Does it? I don't feel in danger from the Muslim population where I live. What makes my Muslim population less dangerous than your Muslim population, or the Muslim population visiting the US or trying to acquire citizenship in the US? Can you definitively tell everyone here that the Muslims visiting the US all want to spread terror? Can you even make the claim that it's likely that they want to spread terror on US soil?

Maybe the Muslims who go to the U.S. are more dangerous. One of the Syrian families accepted here decided to open a bakery. You'd think that would be a good thing... but nope, the Reformacons pounced on the part of the news story that said this family wanted to employ other Syrian refugees so they would have jobs, and complained that they were "stealing" jobs from Canadians.

Although I do have to say you've come up with an amazing conspiracy theory. Most terrorists are Muslim. We're accepting of Muslims. Therefore, we want terrorists to emigrate to the US because we want more Democrat voters. The logic is irrefutable.

Yeah, apparently all the Syrian refugees we took in are going to be voting Liberal in the next federal election after they get their citizenship. Well, some likely will. Others will vote for other parties. Life goes on.

I'm not saying they should... People only work for what they agree to, so I'm saying that some teenagers might want to work these low wage jobs. Why? Maybe to gain valuable skills. Maybe to help out a friend or family member. Maybe just for fun. I don't see why it should be restricted.

I did work for low wages when I was a teenager. Back in the '70s I was paid a whopping 50 cents an hour for babysitting. Eventually that was raised to 75 cents, and then a dollar an hour. I don't know what teenage babysitters get now, but I'd be very surprised if it was less than $5/hour, probably more like $10/hour (minimum wage is $15/hour in my province). My wages when I worked in the library started out at 75 cents/hour and eventually got up to $2.50/hour. This was over 35 years ago.

Since the type and amount of work would be the same now as it was then, I don't see why anyone working such jobs should settle for being paid at '70s and '80s wages, particularly because the cost of getting to these jobs is considerably more now (I was lucky enough to be within walking distance of most of my jobs, transit wasn't too bad back then, or the parents whose kids I babysat out of the neighborhood would give me a ride). Add in the increased costs of work-appropriate clothing and food... nope. I don't see why anyone should settle for what you propose.

Again, I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying you should be allowed to. My Grandma is retired and she works a minimum wage job for fun. She doesn't need the money so much as she wants something to occupy her time with, that's why I mentioned elderly.

About the only time I've ever literally worked for pennies has been with Amazon Mechanical Turk. The thing with that is that if you can do enough hits fast enough, it does add up. The downside is that most of them are ungodly tedious and nitpicky, and if you make a mistake, you don't get paid anything. And of course Canadians aren't paid like the American workers; we get the amount credited to an account that we can use to order stuff from Amazon.com. It's not transferable to Amazon.ca, so it takes a long time to accumulate enough to make it worthwhile (the Marketplace books are cheap, but the shipping is where the high costs are).

Unskilled people often work unpaid internships for a whopping $0/hr in order to gain experience that will vastly improve their earning potential. You think this should be allowed, but not if we raise it to $2/hr or $4/hr? What sense does that make?

There is growing opposition in Canada to unpaid interships. Interns shouldn't be expected to work for free if they don't have any other income. How are they supposed to pay for rent, food, and tuition (if they're still students)?

Like I said, I automate things for a living. Will probably take longer than my lifespan though.

I don't want anyone to have to work a job that they consider menial.

So where's that robot that cleans litter boxes, then? That's a menial job I'd gladly give up.

 

[bernie14]

.....So where's that robot that cleans litter boxes, then? That's a menial job I'd gladly give up.

nearly $500 bucks and you still need other boxes if you have seven cats!!

EDIT: does seem to save quite a bit on litter $

 

[Berzerker]

Some crime went away, but the criminal organizations that arose during prohibition didn't. They just focused more on gambling, prostitution and still illegal drugs and they were still killing each other over it.

Now you can say that those things should also be legal, and I'd agree on gambling and prostitution, but even in legal German brothels there are girls who are forced into the trade. The associated crime never goes away completely.

You also can't really compare alcohol to heroin in terms of addictiveness, health risks and availability. When the USA banned alcohol it was still readily available in Canada, Mexico and Cuba which made bootlegging really easy. I just don't believe that legalizing really hard drugs would solve more problems than it would create. You just know that the Pharma industry would find a sneaky way to market meth to teenagers. The USA already has a opioid epidemic caused by perfectly legal "painkillers".

I didn't compare booze and heroin, I compared the homicide rates under Prohibition to the rates in the 80s under the drug war. What problems did we solve by letting the Mob sell pot, heroin and cocaine instead of booze? Thats one of the reasons they stayed in business, we gave them the job. Opioids were perfectly legal in this country long ago, then came the temperance movements followed by racist laws. Now it takes permission based on medical need from a doctor who also needs permission from politicians. So we have corporations making powerful drugs while buying elections for people waging a war on other drugs.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

nearly $500 bucks and you still need other boxes if you have seven cats!!

EDIT: does seem to save quite a bit on litter $

What is it?

I used to have a Smart Sifter, but my cats neglected to read the instructions on how to use it. I double-checked to make sure I'd assembled it properly, watched the YT video on how to use it, and it still never worked right.

When I moved apartments, I tossed it out and bought a smaller, more normal litter box (Maddy doesn't need a big one just for herself).

 

[danjuno]

Got a citation that shows that a higher minimum wage tends to lead to significant job losses? Because from what I've read the job losses are minimal

I am also interested to see what Commodore's source is.

 

[bernie14]

What is it?

I used to have a Smart Sifter, but my cats neglected to read the instructions on how to use it. I double-checked to make sure I'd assembled it properly, watched the YT video on how to use it, and it still never worked right.

When I moved apartments, I tossed it out and bought a smaller, more normal litter box (Maddy doesn't need a big one just for herself).

Yep, an expensive electronic version of the smart sifter. Cats seem to like it though.

 

[Berzerker]

So you think it's good that people are losing their jobs because of this? You're all heart.

Got a citation that shows that a higher minimum wage tends to lead to significant job losses? Because from what I've read the job losses are minimal

I am also interested to see what Commodore's source is.

warpus must have sources for the job losses, but I thought Commodore was relying on the OP study.

 

[Akka]

Now you can say that those things should also be legal, and I'd agree on gambling and prostitution, but even in legal German brothels there are girls who are forced into the trade. The associated crime never goes away completely.

Not that I agree with making hard drugs legal, but binary thinking and "either it's absolutely zero crime or it's not worth it" is ridiculous.