civver_764
Deity
Yes, I'm pretty sure you just restated my argument.
minimum wage
- Thread starter Berzerker
- Start date
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Ahh yes the "Create a better society and more people will want to move here" argument.
I've got another one: "If you put water on things, they will probably get wet"
I've got another one: "If you put water on things, they will probably get wet"
civver_764
Deity
Please reread my posts, I never made this argument.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Yes.. yes you did.
It's obvious that more people would want to move to wherever you are, if the minimum wage was higher there. It's not an argument, you are just stating a fact.
civver_764
Deity
You misunderstand me. I already corrected GoodSamaritan on this here:
In other words, without the minimum wage there would be a significantly decreased demand for illegal immigrant workers.
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So you are all about paying Americans less than $8.00 an hour. How low would you go? $5.00? $2.50? What is your hourly wage?
civver_764
Deity
I'm not "all about it", but keep in mind that for many Americans their current hourly wage is $0. Are you suggesting that Americans are too good to work these jobs, that they are only fit for immigrants?
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
So basically employers are breaking the law and that is the cause of illegal immigrants being more likely to move there..
Okay so that's an argument against raising the minimum wage how? The only thing I see here is a potential argument as to why employers need to be better regulated and existing laws more tightly enforced..
People are too good to work for such low pay. Such pay will not support any lifestyle in the US. Companies should reduce profits and reduce top management salaries to increase the pay of their low wage hourly folks. As stated above, companies are the problem when it comes to illegal workers. Maybe we should deport those owners.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Really we need a Citizen's Dividend, but a UBI would still be an improvement over the current system even if funded by sources other than land value taxes and Pigouvian fees on negative externalities like pollution.
Berzerker
Deity
making it harder for the unskilled to get jobs is positive?
drug gangs are the price we're paying to keep heroin illegal
civver_764
Deity
That's kind of like arguing that we need to crack down even harder on drugs and enforce existing laws more harshly.
What about teenagers? Elderly people? Unskilled people looking for experience?
Yeah, and we should all sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya...
It's not a matter of who to deport. To bring back the drug war analogy -- it doesn't matter if we lock up the dealers or the users, the negative effects of the drug war are still there.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Maybe if we were talking about drugs. Which we weren't
civver_764
Deity
You're right, we aren't. But I bring up the drug war because I think there are a lot of similarities at play. What do you see as the difference between the two such that increased enforcement will improve the situation of one but not the other?
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Cats and oranges have a lot of similarities, it doesn't mean that every single conclusion about cats is going to apply to oranges, and vice versa.
To answer your question though (because, why not? I mean it's irrelevant, but..) the war on drugs is a failed experiment that has caused much suffering to many. Much better approaches have been tried and been proved a success. A cat on the other hand just meows. Oh wait. I meant to say that the minimum wage is a completely different type of scenario and I wouldn't know how to begin to draw up a comparison
To answer your question though (because, why not? I mean it's irrelevant, but..) the war on drugs is a failed experiment that has caused much suffering to many. Much better approaches have been tried and been proved a success. A cat on the other hand just meows. Oh wait. I meant to say that the minimum wage is a completely different type of scenario and I wouldn't know how to begin to draw up a comparison
So you think it's good that people are losing their jobs because of this? You're all heart.
Even if that "freedom" condemns them to a life of poverty? You also assume that just because you hate working that everyone else does as well. This might come as a shock to you, but there are people out there that actually love their jobs and don't want to lose them, no matter how menial that job may seem to you.
Berzerker
Deity
I had a job like that, and I probably wouldn't have gotten it if the owner had to pay us $15/hr
Why should teenagers work for less than non teenagers when doing the same work? I am elderly. Retired in fact. Why should I, with 40 years of work experience, work for $4.00 an hour? Unskilled people might well have a family to support; child care to pay for; medical problems; live in a place without mass transit.
So you jump to Kumbaya rather than answer the question? Why shouldn't business owners who employ illegals be prosecuted? If they didn't hire illegals much of the problem would go away.
