"Minutemen" plan to patrol Arizona border

[MarineCorps]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Intent on securing the vulnerable Arizona border from illegal immigrant crossings, U.S. officials are bracing for what they call a potential new threat this spring: the Minutemen.

Nearly 500 volunteers have already joined the Minuteman Project, anointing themselves civilian border patrol agents. They plan to patrol a 40-mile stretch of the southeast Arizona border throughout April when the tide of immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border peaks.

"I felt the only way to get something done was to do it yourself," said Jim Gilchrist, a retired accountant and decorated Vietnam War veteran who is helping recruit Minutemen across the country.

"We've been repeatedly accused of being people who are taking the law into our own hands," said Gilchrist, 56, of Aliso Viejo, California "That is an outright bogus statement. We are going down there to assist law enforcement."

Officials concede the 370-mile Arizona border is the most porous stretch on the U.S.-Mexico line. Moreover, recent intelligence indicates that al Qaeda terrorists are likely to enter the country through the Mexican border, James Loy, the deputy secretary of the Homeland Security Department, said last week.

"Several al Qaeda leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the country through Mexico, and also believe illegal entry is more advantageous than legal entry for operational security reasons," Loy said in written testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the U.S. Border Patrol last year, 51 percent crossed into the country at the Arizona border. The agency increased the number of agents in the Tucson sector, which has its largest staff, from 1,700 to 2,100 over the last 18 months.

But that number is going to grow to try to plug the remaining holes, said Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert C. Bonner. About 10,000 federal agents now patrol the 2,000-mile southern border, he said.

Officials fear the Minuteman patrols could cause more trouble than they prevent. At least some of the volunteers plan to arm themselves during the 24-hour desert patrols. Many are untrained and have little or no experience in confronting illegal border crossings.

"Any time there are firearms and you're out in the middle of no-man's land in difficult terrain, it's a dangerous setting," said Bonner, whose agency is keeping a close eye on the Minutemen plans.

"The Border Patrol does this every day, and they are qualified and very well-trained to handle the situation," he said. "Ordinary Americans are not. So there's a danger that not just illegal migrants might get hurt, but that American citizens might get hurt in this situation."

Civilian patrols are nothing new along the southern border, where crossing the international line is sometimes as easy as stepping over a few rusty strands of barbed wire. But they usually are limited to small, informal groups, leaving organizers to believe the Minuteman Project is the largest of its kind on the southern border.

It may also prove to be a magnet for what Glenn Spencer, president of the private American Border Patrol, described as camouflage-wearing, weapons-toting hard-liners who might get a little carried away with their assignments.

"How are they going to keep the nut cases out of there? They can't control that," said Spencer, whose 40-volunteer group, based in Hereford, Arizona, has used unmanned aerial vehicles and other high-tech equipment to track and report the number of border crossings for more than two years.

"There's a storm gathering here on the border, and there are conditions ripe for some difficulty," he said.

The border agents agree.

The Minutemen "clearly have every reason to be upset with the federal government for abandoning them," said National Border Patrol Council president T.J. Bonner, no relation to the commissioner.

But "if anything goes wrong, God forbid, someone does injure an agent, this government is going to be turning both barrels on them and come after them with a vengeance," he said.

Gilchrist said the Minutemen are under strict orders to merely identify and follow illegal border crossers and alert federal agents. They should not interact with the immigrants except to offer food, water or medical care. If there's a couple of "bad apples" who turn up in the group, Gilchrist said, they will face prosecution if they step outside the law.

Something dramatic needed to be done to curb the years of crime, property damage and trash dumping caused by the border crossings, Gilchrist said.

"Things are out of control" he said. "And they've been out of control for decades."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/21/border.minutemen.ap/index.html

Dumb DUmb DUmb idea. SOmeone is going to get hurt here.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

What's dumb is that the government isn't enforcing immigration laws. I prefer shoddy civillian law enforcement to no law enforcement at all.

 

[Scuffer]

I would be concerned that those would would sign up for this might not resist violence, especially when someone starts lobbing anti-terror grenades into the debate. Some may join explicitly for that purpose.

 

[carlosMM]

yeah, take the states responsibility out of the states hands, go ahead and get killed - then have your family sue the state


and don't tell me that is not what is coming.

 

[Pirate]

You can't really stop anyone from sitting and watching the border, and if the mere presence of watching eyes is enough to discourage crossing, then I can't see how any harm has been done. But if an armed vigilante harms, assults, or harasses any other person they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. These "minutemen" have not been granted the use of police power by their fellow citizens and therefore constitute yet another group of people that the border patrol must police. It might just make the problem worse. That's about all I can say without knowing exactly how these minutemen plan to observe the border.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

This may sound a little extreme but, line the border with razor wire, landmines, and pillboxes every couple hundred yards. I believe the only way to discourage illegal immigration is to use threat of death to those that wish to do so.

 

[Scuffer]

It might reduce it, but they'll just find other ways. In trucks, or aeroplanes, or boats, or people smugglers.

Unless you are implementing a shoot on sight policy for illeagal immigrants, which might upset the human right lobby a bit.

 

[cidknee]

wow what an interesting idea.... but i think marine corps is right someone is gonna get hurt and then the lawyers are gonna throw a coniption fit. hell next thing we know once some illegal immagrant gets hurt and sues the US, the border will be taken down just so nobdy will get hurt. bloody lawyers...... Now I am all for stopping immigration, heck there are times i walk down the street and feel like im the only white guy around. But this is a good idea thats gonna get way outta hand

 

[De Lorimier]

Civilians with guns patrolling the border with Mexico, what could go wrong?
Er, yeah, ok.
Stupid idea but like SN said, and it pains me to agree with him on something, I prefer civillian law enforcement to no law enforcement at all.

 

[Uiler]

This may sound a little extreme but, line the border with razor wire, landmines, and pillboxes every couple hundred yards. I believe the only way to discourage illegal immigration is to use threat of death to those that wish to do so.

They already do. A lot of them die of thirst and snake bites in the desert. Part of the job of the patrolmen is to save their asses as much as it is the haul them in. As others say, a lot of them come by truck as well. Also, there is a very large possibility of innocent Americans getting hurt by the landmines etc. as well by accident. What if a kid accidentally wanders into a landmine by accident? Even if you put signs up, over time, they get lost, people forget, paperwork gets misplaced. In 10 years time it could be a real hazard. It is one of the plagues on war-torn nations in that even after the war is over forgotten land-mines cause a lot of casulties. Land-mines being *buried* and unmarked are very easy to lose track of. Even if you can somehow keep track of 99% of them, it only takes one and an inquisitive 6 year old for it go boom. Also, the first time some kid gets killed or injured by a forgotten land-mine say in 10 years time, their family is going to sue the state into oblivion.

 

[Double Barrel]

What's dumb is that the government isn't enforcing immigration laws. I prefer shoddy civillian law enforcement to no law enforcement at all.

Straight up.

This President, and his dog-and-pony show about "fighting terrorism", are all bark and no bite if he fails to protect our borders.

What does he not understand about the statement: "Several al Qaeda leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the country through Mexico, and also believe illegal entry is more advantageous than legal entry for operational security reasons"?!

It is an asinine policy to invade other countries to "fight terrorism" but fail to even try to protect our gateways.

And what about ILLEGAL aliens do folks not understand? THEY ARE BREAKING FEDERAL LAW!! You and I would go to federal prison for breaking any given federal law, so why the double standard?!?!

 

[Flak]

Now I am all for stopping immigration,...

I'm sure you meant illegal immigration as you yourself (by the fact that you are white) are the result of some type of immigration.

I've been to unpatrolled areas of the border in Texas and to think that there are enough resources to cover this vast expense is an idea of fantasy only slightly potentially realistic because of the history of the cold war. IF, and that's a very big if, they are able to close down that stretch in Arizona, there are still thousands of miles of open border. The only way to stop people from going either direction is to raise up the American equivalent of an Iron Curtain on the border, with hundreds of thousands of patrolmen there supported by all of the latest technology to prevent penetration.

Now consider this: Many hundreds of thousands of Mexicans come across the border every year to work and go back to Mexico with their money (migrant workers which our agricultural industry depends on). Hundreds of thousands of others come across to work and stay. Sometime within the next hundred years, there is a decent possibility of this border effectively vanishing anyway as the U.S., Canada, and Mexico join forces economically face growing challenges.

Is sending out vigilante patrols, or building a multibillion dollar Iron Curtain really how we want to approach the near future?

a) How many known terrorists are known to have crossed the border from Mexico (or Canada)?

b ) How many are known to have simply entered the country by flying right on in using normal air traffic (ref 9-11)?

c) How many known terrorists have actually been born in the U.S. (ref OKC bombing)?

I bet the answer to c and/or b is larger than a.

 

[Uiler]

Honestly speaking, the money from the white elephant with no results and which most reputable rocket scientists including those from one of the most influential and powerful physical societies in America who publish some of the highest profile well-known physics journals in the world, and who issued a recent 500 page report on this topic, think is impossible, known as missile defence could probably provide the funds to not only patrol the land borders but also the seaports and airports as well. The difference though is missile defense is "The Sexy" and has the benefit of pork barrelling a lot of defense contractors who are not only very large campaign contributors but have manufacturing bases in states belonging to key Republican senators.

I've been to unpatrolled areas of the border in Texas and to think that there are enough resources to cover this vast expense is an idea of fantasy only slightly potentially realistic because of the history of the cold war. IF, and that's a very big if, they are able to close down that stretch in Arizona, there are still thousands of miles of open border. The only way to stop people from going either direction is to raise up the American equivalent of an Iron Curtain on the border, with hundreds of thousands of patrolmen there supported by all of the latest technology to prevent penetration.

 

[Damnyankee]

I propose taking the Nation Guard of Border states and placing them on the border

 

[Uiler]

I propose taking the Nation Guard of Border states and placing them on the border

Most of the national guard that can be mobilised is in Iraq or preparing to go to Iraq or just got back from Iraq. After just realising your ignorance about basic facts about N. Korea in another thread I can't believe that this extends to your own country.

 

[Damnyankee]

Most of the national guard that can be mobilised is in Iraq or preparing to go to Iraq or just got back from Iraq. After just realising your ignorance about basic facts about N. Korea in another thread I can't believe that this extends to your own country.

I know, but not all of the National Guard are in Iraq, most are if you would have given me the chance to respond, but there are still enough to carry out more "official" and effective patrols of the border outside the border police. At least 500 or so National Guardsman can be trained, and sent to the border. And not to carry other stuff from other threads, I said that in Saddams over twenty years of reign, he has killed more people the North Korea, not to mention what might have happened before that. The Painful indoctrination imposed by Kim is far worse, but deathwise, saddam "wins"

 

[Jawz II]

if this thing catches on, i dont think the border patrol is going to be able to do anything about them

then maybe after a while, mexican gangs start smuggling people in larger groups, guarded by armed guards!

it would be like the old west!
maybe unlikely, but funny scenario

 

[blindside]

Great. A bunch of vigilantes getting killed by drug trafficers and families suing the state over it.

 

[MarineCorps]

Make them sign a release form in order to avoid being watched extra extra carefully by police.

 

[Azadre]

Interesting concept, but they'll end up dead or murdering. Thus, they'll be gone in 4 years unless legislation passes.