mm13:Incan Insanity-AWP-1CC

Some thoughts...

Been doing a bit of figuring as epic isn't a usual game speed for me. Our UU is 18 shields so breakpoints at 3, 6 and 9. 9 will probably never get used as by then we'll have Axes and Swords, ditto of course the bonus from forges.

Chop rush Stonehenge if it can be done in a couple of turns? Probably not a good idea. I love superspecialists in OCC but I suspect we cannot take the time. Still the bonus from a great prophet or engineer is not to be despised. Shields plus coins are always handy.

Our UU has a ~30% chance to take out a warrior city defender with no culture or hill bonus. We actually do somewhat better against archers.

IIRC prince AIs don't have any bonus starting units do they? That makes things considerably easier.

We're going to need a mort of workers.

We're going to need some double forest promoted units if for no other reason then the movement bonus. Scouting is going to be a real headache with 1 move units.

150 culture to get to size three. So assuming no bonuses we would get the third ring around.. damn, cannot remember with epic..... 75 turns anyway.

I can see from the screenshot we have gold which is damn nice. We are 5/5 at Prince with the trees and 7/6 with cows, ivory and gold. 8/6 with forges.

Phant's are cool but slow. In fact that is our biggest problem I suspect, which is speed. Hope we have horse around somewhere close. That may be too much to ask though.

Enough meandering for now.

Gotag
 
Well it was so long that I couldn’t find that start I had so I picked another with lots of goodies. We have gold, marble, wines and as you can see in the picture a workable Iron. The one problem we have is health as we have only cows. I’m not sure how smart this was but I went straight up the path to iron working and as you can see in 2000 BC we will have access to Iron soon. This is not my usual play with Quechuas but they are really only good for suppression and the sooner we have swords the sooner we can take cities. The wines on river gave us 3 gpt unimproved and made for fast research. I started right away with a Rax thinking I would stay close to home and delay the trigger of war but we popped a scout from the nearby hut and I sent him out to explore. We got nothing else from huts but maps and we have met everyone. We seem to be in the middle of things with Liz and Ashok in the E and Cyrus in the W. I would try to keep the scout alive (Barbs are off) and find as many civs as possible so we can send the troops out efficiently. After the worker I would send out Quechuas to pillage and harass especially the more distant civs and even a few after the iron is hooked. Then we can crank swords and take our nearest neighbors out.

Do not chop any forest in our cross, and don't mine the hills next to the forest in the hope that 1 grows which would give us 1 extra health. I would say we just irrigate everything and work max shields we can. We will have to finish this sooner rather than later. We want to head for math and construction. Or we could try to do the oracle for civil service but I fear we may miss that but it might be worth a try as that would be a huge help.
 
Mark
Grey Fox-UP
Gotag-On Deck
Maksim
Shadzy

Take 20 each
 
I’ve been thinking about this one and I think we should try to get the oracle. We have no industrious civs and we want masonry to work the marble so it would really only divert us to 1 expensive tech, CoL which should also net us a religion. Civil service would be very big if this goes on for a while which it might. Also, I like gotag’s idea on using the woodsman 2 promotion for Quechua’s. Since we have a Rax that is only 1 battle to win to get that. Will greatly increase speed and they will be very safe in forests to suppress workers at least until axes appear. Also, our swords will only need 1 win to be CR2 so it should be pretty easy to produce a city killing SoD very early. We will need the war income soon as I got nothing from the huts.
 
Also remember from a growth standpoint, food=health. Farming the flood plains and cottaging one wine might be the way to go. We have 2 wine so "wasting" one isn't damaging. With a mined gold and a cottaged wine we are going to be ok for beakers for a while. Getting the Iron on line is pretty critical too of course and is the first priority. Thankfully it isn't on a two movement tile square. Every little bit helps.

So much to do, so little time!!

Asoka already seems to be at 150 culture, not surprising but at 40% bonus he's going to be tough to crack. If I read the map right his capital cannot be on a hill (we would have spotted a hill city from the nearby hill that gave us the view we have) so at least that helps. That is assuming we didn't get our view from a hut.

We really need some scouting done due north and south west. Note that you can just spot Sally almost due south of our scout. One city tile exposed.

Heh, we have plenty of happy but little health. Our people will be sickly but at least their working!!

Asoka's iron is exposed and should be easy to supress/pillage. Figure Monty to grow towards his.

GL and a good looking start.

Gotag
 
Lost ...

Ok, I moved our Quechas out to suppress AIs, and a Monty scout simply walk in and take our city ... :eek:


Okay, bad April's Fool Joke :mischief:, on with the actual report.

---

Actual Report

IBT: Some idiot told us we are the hopeless in terms of wealth. Yeah right, that's only because we have yet to stat pillaging ...



On Research

So we want Oracle.

That requires Masonry, Mediation, Preisthood to enable the Oracle.

We want to use oracle for a slingshot to Civil Service. That requires Priesthood -> Writing -> Code of Laws

I set us on the pursue of the first path:



Mediation in 2 turns.

On the War Front

Nothing much. A stupid monty scout really appreaoch our capital, and gave our Quecha the needed xp to goes to Woodsman II.

As I send another Quecha towards NE, an Arabian Warrior was heading towards our capitol, I backtracked the Quecha and finally the warrior goes into open space, apparently to harrass our worker building the marble quarry. Siezed that opportunity, and free xp to our Quecha again. Promoted himto Woodman II for faster healing, then he should be on his way to harass the eastern AI.

One Quecha has already reached Asoka's land, and pillaged a few gold. Teased by the pillaging, the Indian warrior decides to try his luck to attack our Quecha across the river and up on a hill. Victory is pretty much guaranteed.

On the Home Matters

I revolted to slavery, and starts us another worker. Need it for chopping, and for connecting iron. Don't think our Quecha are going to capture us any free worker soon. At the ned of my turnset, the worker has just passed the 2-pop whipping cost to 1-pop whipping cost. Suggest the next player to whip it before you press enter, the overflow in hammers should also net us a Quecha in 1 turn.



MIsc

The world culture maps:

The east:



The west:



The autolog:
Spoiler :

Turn 50 (2000 BC)

Turn 51 (1975 BC)
Cuzco finishes: Worker

Turn 52 (1950 BC)
Cuzco begins: Quechua

Turn 53 (1925 BC)

Turn 54 (1900 BC)

Turn 55 (1875 BC)
Tech learned: The Wheel

Turn 56 (1850 BC)
Research begun: Masonry
Quechua defeats (1.74/2): Aztec Scout

Turn 57 (1825 BC)
Quechua promoted: Woodsman I
Quechua promoted: Woodsman II
Cuzco finishes: Quechua

Turn 58 (1800 BC)
Cuzco begins: Quechua

Turn 59 (1775 BC)

Turn 60 (1750 BC)

Turn 61 (1725 BC)

Turn 62 (1700 BC)
Cuzco grows: 5

Turn 63 (1675 BC)
Tech learned: Masonry
Cuzco finishes: Quechua

Turn 64 (1650 BC)
Research begun: Meditation
Cuzco begins: Worker
Quechua defeats (0.48/2): Arabian Warrior

Turn 65 (1625 BC)
Quechua promoted: Woodsman I
Quechua promoted: Woodsman II
GreyFox: Revolt to Slavery

Turn 66 (1600 BC)

Turn 67 (1575 BC)

Turn 68 (1550 BC)

Turn 69 (1525 BC)
Quechua defeats (1.70/2): Indian Warrior

Turn 70 (1500 BC)

EDIT: Forgot the autolog :crazyeye:

And of-course, the save (Gotag is UP):
 
Played a few turns. Everything looking good so far. Bypassing AH and Pottery for that long is gonna hurt.

Gotag
 
Looks good. I am surprised you hooked the marble before the iron. I think we need to start cranking swords and axes ASAP although I suppose it is because of the $$ from marble but it didn't need to be roaded for this. We need to start taking cities out. The quechua is really only good for harrasment and we should send some pillaging axes out for support to see if we can keep most civs from hooking metals/horses. We should exploit our early access to iron.
 
Turns completed.

Preturn, whipped the worker as he is 5 turns away and mining a square is 5 so basically we're trading a pop point for iron. Well worth it.

1475BC Worker->Quencua

Monty went slavery, don't know from previous turns who else does but this is important to know. During the rest of my turns no one else went slavery unless I missed it. Worker to build road to iron and then mine it.

1450BC Med->Priesthood Quencua->Quencua

Move units

1425BC

Scouted Pasargadae, 2 warriors as garrison

1400BC

Marble mine completes, move to forest chop outside BFC, we need units ASAP, Quencua healed at Delhi and I pillage the mine for 6g. Scouted Persepolis, 2 Archers and 2!! gold mines, moving in to pillage.

1375BC

Little menage a trois with a Cyrus scout as unlucky Pierre. At least he died with a smile on his face. Cuzco expands at 150 culture

1350BC

Scout Bombay, 2 warriors, 3rd archer in Delhi, 11g on mine pillage Persepolis

1325 Priesthood->AH

I think long and hard about CC jump and decide we just cannot afford it at this moment. Even with chops it's going to take +10 turns never mind the research time on writing and Col. We need to get more units in the field.

1300BC

IBT our brave scout dies near Monty, an archer had just enough movement on the road to get to him. Archer at Delhi attacks out and dies, we're at 1.1/2. 14g from pillage of Persian gold mine, that's gotta dent his research!! 9g from a pillage of a mine near Mecca.

1275BC

Move some units around, forest chop completes 45 shields

1250BC Quechua->Quechua

Pillage a farm near Persepolis for 6g

1225BC Quechua->Quechua

Beat a Mansa Warrior, 1.2/2.

1200BC IRON IN!! Quechua->Swordsman

I've not seen any axemen so I'm going swords. Lost the Quechua near Mecca, Archer attacked out of the city and lost but a nearby warrior batting cleanup took us out. Moving another Quechua to take his place. An archer attacked out of Delhi and lost leaving only 1!! Sadly even though I blew both promos I couldn't get above 28% so I'm moving another couple of Quechuas in to try my luck.

1175BC

Scout trap failed as it appears the unit got dispanded. Smart move to deny the promo.

1150BC AH->Pottery

1125BC-1100BC moving units around

1075

Forest chop in,

moving units

1050 Swordsman->swordsman

1025BC

Move units

1000BC Pottery->Writing

Got lucky and caught a Monty settler/archer with a worker/archer pair next door, both pairs in forest. Killed the archer on the setter, grabbed the worker and am beating it south to meet a quechua moving north. Our First slave!!!

Feel free to change research as nothing is invested. We have two swordsmen, one moving towards Delhi which should be easy meat. We have 3 Quechuas there already and could probably take the city (1 archer defender) but would probably lose two doing it. Swordsman is around 3 turns away and the city has jack for production as it appears to be working nothing but floodplains. Taking Delhi would release the Quechuas to go give Lizzy a visit.

The second swordsman is preparing to snack on a warrior from Sally with a Quechua in nearby. He's just west of Cuzco. A worker is almost finished a floodplain farm whilst the other is almost done the cows. City production is a mix of production and research. As soon as the cows come in we can get some growth.

We have to find Mansa, I had no luck there.
 
Gotag said:
Preturn, whipped the worker as he is 5 turns away and mining a square is 5 so basically we're trading a pop point for iron. Well worth it.
Click to expand...
Not only that, don't forget the hammers overflow into Quecha in 1 turn.

Gotag said:
Got lucky and caught a Monty settler/archer with a worker/archer pair next door, both pairs in forest. Killed the archer on the setter, grabbed the worker and am beating it south to meet a quechua moving north. Our First slave!!!
Click to expand...
:goodjob: That's wonderful news!

Wonderful set of turns, Gotag, completely compensated for my relatively poorer turns :thumbsup:

I think Mansa is somewhere west, beyond Cyrus or Saladin.

Research-wise, we can continue to push for Oracle -> CoL -> CS slingshot, so writing is good, followed by CoL if people think its worth it. Else, we can go for Construction for the obvious reason.

Good luck, Maksim.

-
 
I had 68% on the Archer in the forest for the settler.

Monty popped a city south of that with 2 warriors in it but it's on a hill so a tough nut to crack. It's in the middle of jungle though so not a short term danger.

We had a couple of forests grow but sadly none within the fat cross.

There is a Monty worker/archer pair a knights move away from our worker/quechua pair They are in the fog at the choke, greed might be good.....

There is a Quechua (next to the water) moving NE to meet up with our Quechhua/Worker pair.

We grow to 5 in 2 turns and the cows will be pastured in 5 turns. The other worker is chopping due in 3.

We have ~56 gold at -5 per turn at 100%. We should be able to grab Delhi in 5-6 turns safely when the swordsman gets there so money shouldn't be a problem for a while. Unit and support costs will increase quickly from here on though.

The north will be easy to defend as monty can be stopped at a natural choke. We're leaning east towards Asoka and England but are not completely committed.

This will be tough but we seem to have gotten a break on copper/iron pops. Most are easy to find and deny so far. India is boned.

Gotag
 
As expected $$ will be the big problem. I think we crank out swords and when writing comes in do a library to speed our way to CoL. I think 4-5 swords is enough to wipe out India and England which should support full research. I still think we get the Civil Service Oracle slingshot although research is the key now not hammers. 1 or 2 FP cottages may help along with the wines.
 
So, my first turn in a new SG! Shouldn’t be too difficult, right? Except that we are at war with the known world, fending off enemies to our left and right. Now is probably not the time to mention that at heart I am but a peaceful builder. Or that my experience of playing Epic speed is not small so much as non-existent. :)

Oh well, there’s always a first time for everything.

There are two Quechas in front of Delhi, which is guarded by a single archer. I could wait for the swordsman to arrive, but Asoka will build another archer in the meantime. Oh well, those who risk nothing gain nothing. I attack, lose my first quecha, attack with the second and…

Win!

Delhi is destroyed, and we have money enough to continue our run to Writing/Code Of Laws.

The next twenty turns are a blur. I remember the occasional fight in the open fields (when we attack them) and forested hills (when they attack us) in the west, with our quechas winning every time, I remember the English settler planting a city on Delhi’s old spot – a city immediately raised by the swordsman passing by. Most vividly I remember the smell of my burning dinner, completely forgotten...

"The swordsman who came to Bombay" – it will make a fine name for an opera millennia later. In reality it was this swordsman alone who, attacking on two consecutive turns, burned down the last citadel of Indian civilization.

Not everything was so rosy, unfortunately. My two swordsmen and two quechas were decimated at the siege of Tenochitlan (Monty’s closest city). Only one sword barely survived, while we killed an archer and a warrior. The remaining sword is currently healing outside the enemy’s borders.

At the home front, writing was researched, a library was built, and we should have Code of Laws in 12-15 turns (depending on how the city is MMed). Oracle should take 8-10 turns to build, so we have time for a sword or two more.

Hope I didn’t make too much of a mess.

Good luck!

P.S. Oh, when I rushed to save the remains of my dinner, I panicked and exited without saving. :rolleyes: I reloaded from an autosave two turns before - hope that's OK.
 
Sounds very good to me. Who can complain about taking out 1 civ with a single sword and a couple of modified warriors. It might be a good idea to take out Monty next as he has that resourceless sword. With the slingshot we should be in good shape for $$ and hammers. I don’t think we really need to grow very large or get any other techs than construction for this one. If we can take out Monty and Liz then we face only the 3 civs in the west, which should be doable if we can keep at least 1 of them from getting metals before our army arrives.

Mark-On Deck
Grey Fox
Gotag
Maksim
Shadzy-UP
 
Well, if our Civil Service slingshot succeeds, I would suggest going for Machinery, and then letting Macemen take care of business.
 
That is a good point. I would still get const as cats will really help cut our losses but maces will be crushing at this stage and level.
 
Teotihuacan (Teno is his cap I think) can and should be bypassed IMO. At this point in the game it represents a drain on Monty rather then a bonus. It produces 1 coin and probably costs around 4-5. The same is true of Pasargadae although the distance cost is probably less. Neither city is any threat to us and if they cannot be built up via workers are nothing more then handy lunch buckets of enemy troops.

The validity of the OCC concept represents the power of the capital/original city in this game at the early stages. If we supress the capitals we have gone a long way to winning. Now later of course, secondary cities can sometimes surpass the capital but even then often not. I've played many a game where until the end my capital was the best city I had.

We need to push on passed the choke with Monty and start pillaging. You can see mines and roads there for the taking. Persepolis is already surpressed so we need to deal with London, Mecca and um.... Mali??

Good cajones taking Delhi. I thought long and hard about going in but decided to wait for the swordsman. I must admit I had a small hope, since it was the capital of both early religions, one would spread to us but sadly that never happened. CoL is big if we can grab Taoism. OR is great for us as the 50% capital boost is well.... rather handy in a OCC.

Game is shaping nicely.. Quechua upgrades to Axeman at 100g per btw.

Gotag
 
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