[Module in Development]The Myu Collective

[EugeneStyles]

The Myu Collective - Psychic Dwarves

I have started this thread for a module I'm working on. Looking for any feedback you would like to give. Note that I'm new to modding, so if you make a suggestion that is super cool but involves too much work, I probably won't do it. I'm posting this now because I've convinced myself that I'm not too stupid to add a civ. I currently have them working as a new civilization, however the only unique thing they have on my current version is their Palace, the Psychic trait, and the Psionic promotion. And since I haven't fixed anything else, the Psionic promotion does nothing particularly useful.

Some of my design plans are included below. More info as I figure it out and/or implement it.

Note that this is likely to take me a while to finish, as I have a full-time job and a 1 month old baby. So it's been tough squeezing in time to work on it. It's coming along decently though... the hardest part, as always, is going to be finding/creating art.

8/27 - Added Sentinel (Fort Commander UU), removed Medium (Warrior UU) because I changed how access to spheres is granted, gave Telepath (Axeman UU) free Mind II, added Mind/Shadow/Psionic spells (castable by Recon units).

8/23 - added Fortune Teller and Crystal Works UB's, Crystal Weapons promotion.

8/22 - a bunch of stuff changed and/or finalized. Most importantly, 4 psionic spells are now implemented, including Mutable Landscape, which was kind of a monster.

Spoiler Background :

More detail to come, but here's a rough idea of their lore: The Myu succumbed to the influence of Mammon during the Age of Magic, giving in to a lust for power and discovering forbidden secrets of the mind. When the Age of Ice hit, Kilmorph cursed them to wander the ice while her more loyal subjects took refuge underground. But when they were decimated by frost and starvation, they begged her for mercy. She could not stand to see any of the dwarves suffer, because they have always been first in her heart, and she took pity. She banished them to the very depths of the earth, where they would live as ascetics and reflect on the evils of greed. Long after the Age of Ice ended, they emerged again, finding a world bursting with life and sunshine, but also harboring a growing evil.

Spoiler General Stuff :

Civilization Trait: Psychic
Free Psionic and Channeling I promotion for Melee, Recon, Archery, Mounted. Debating whether to also add it for Arcane.

Damage type: Psychic
New damage type. Debating whether to modify existing promos to give resistance to it. For instance - Combat I - V might each give -5% resistance to Psychic. Sentinel might give +20% resistance to Psychic.
(Note, may not work, and also some people are calling me stupid for wanting to include it at all.)

Promotion: Psionic
25% resistance to Psychic damage. (may change to 10% magic resistance)
Blocks ability to gain Bronze Weapons, Iron Weapons (Mithril no longer blocked)
Allows promotions Mind I and Force I.
Allows Earth I with Melee. (handled with an autoacquire promotion)
Allows Shadow I with Recon.
(Planned - Allows Air I with Archer? Allows Dimensional I with Mounted?)
(Removed Psychic damage from Psionic trait. May still have it on individual UU's.)

Promotion: Accelerated
(i.e. created by the Accelerate spell; comes from base RifE)
Added +50 workrate. Considering increasing this. Note this affects Luchiurp as well.

Myu Palace
Standard Palace. Mana types currently Mind, Force, Earth.

Hero
Master Zho, an Archmage-type hero
Most of the pedia text for psionic spells will be Master Zho quotes.
Currently comes in at Divination (early, I know), 0/5 starts with Channeling 1/2/3, Mind 1/2/3, Dwarven. I'm thinking of a couple different ways to spice him up:
a) Gains Mind 3 at the end of each turn... Totally obliterates the one drawback to Mind 3, so could be tough to balance. If I did this, I think I'd cut back his strength to 0/3 and require Arcane Lore. Would that be enough?
b) Change unit combat to Commander (undecided on whether to let him command units, but probably yes - otherwise the unitcombat would be mostly because it makes sense and so he can use Crystal Weapons without being Melee or Adept), keeps Channeling 3 and Mind 3, gains Shadow 1, Earth 1 (and any other spheres that I make psionic spells for). This would block him from most spheres but still allow 3 levels in psionic spells.
"Looks can be deceiving, my student. Now I appear as an old dwarf, now an old human, now an orc."
"Can you appear as a young lass, master?"
"Hush, child."

World Spell
Actually I have no idea right now. Thoughts include "reveal map", or "add building in each of your cities".

Spoiler Leaders :

Zeriadh - female, neutral good, Philosophical / Creative. Adds to the fact that the Myu get good early-game growth benefits by discounting some early buildings, increasing cultural spread, and doubling the GP benefit from Mind I.

TXT_KEY_UNNAMED_EVIL_LEADER, emergent, male, lawful evil, Controlling / TXT_KEY_UNNAMED_TRAIT that gives Psionic promotion to Divine units. Planning to develop some additional psionic/divine spells, possibly with random chances to summon hostiles as the gods punish your hubris.

Spoiler Unique Buildings :

Fortune Teller
Replaces Pagan Temple
+1 with Gems, +2
Allows 1 Priest specialist. Training bonus applies to arcane units instead of disciple.

Crystal Works
Requires Alteration
+10% from Gems, +5% from Gold, +5% from Mithril
Sells Crystal Weapons for 25.
Crystal Weapons give +1, +10% vs. Iron Weapons, 2 per battle won.
Overwrites Bronze Weapons, overwritten by Iron or Mithril Weapons (not that any Myu can get Bronze or Iron). Available to Melee, Mounted, Arcane, and Commanders.

Spoiler Unique Units :

Mud Golem
Replaces Worker - same as Luchiurp unit.
"Whether unable or unwilling to do the manual labor themselves, the Myu have learned to shape mounds of the earth into tools for tilling and harvesting itself."

Dwarven Slinger
Replaces Archer. Same as Khazad unit.

Removed Medium (Warrior UU), because it was basically just there so I could give it Earth I. That's handled with an autoacquire promotion for all melee units now. Medium is now the name of the Adept UU.

Telepath
Replaces Axeman.
Currently 2, +2 Lightning.
Free Promotion: Mind II.

Veteran
Replaces Champion - Free promotion Channeling II (which in turn allows Mind II, Force II, and Earth II).
Currently 3, +3 Lightning. May even reduce to 5.
"Although all Myu have some innate psionic talent, only one in every thousand Myu warriors has the physical and mental prowess to become a Veteran. Their full title is, Veteran of a Thousand Psychic Dwarves."

Crystal Guardian (changed name)
Replaces Fort Commander - UnitCombat_Adept, Free promotion Channelling I & II. Starts with a 4/45%/1 ranged attack, with collateral damage (considering removing collateral or reducing it). (Originally had Drill I and Archery I promotionallows, which I've removed, because I forgot that Commander I gives +10% ranged damage limit anyway. This fort commander can get a kill-capable ranged attack by level 4, with Force I, Mind I, Force II, and Commander I.) In return for this, the fort commander loses his first strikes, bonuses vs. melee and mounted, and collateral damage limit is much lower.

Medium
Replaces Adept. Free Promotion Mind I. Starts with a 1 Str, 1 Range, 25% ranged attack.

Mentalist
Replaces Mage. Free Promotion Mind II. Starts with a 1 Str, 1 Range, 35% ranged attack.

Omnipath
Replaces Archmage. Free Promotion Mind III. Starts with a 2 Str, 1 Range, 55% ranged attack. When combined with Mind I, Force I, and Force II, this becomes 10 Str, 3 Range, 100%. Ouch!

Will need to add a tier 4 melee UU (Transcendent), and a tier 3 and tier 4 Recon UU (Grey Seer? Shadow Tamer? Skull Hunter? I dunno...). Tier 3's get Channeling II, Tier 4's get Channeling III.

Blocked Horseman, Horse Archer, Knight.
Blocked Longbowman.

Spoiler New Spells :

All have been successfully implemented at this point.

Telekinesis
Req Mind 1, Force 1, Psionic
Gives the unit a weak ranged attack. Currently 1 range, 2 str, 20% damage cap. Stacks with other ranged attacks.

Collapse Walls
Req Mind 2, Force 2, Psionic
Gives the unit a 20% bombard. Seems a little weak?

Shoot Stones
Mind 1, Earth 1
Summons a shooting stone. Similar to fireball. 2, no collateral damage.

Mutable Landscape
Req Mind 2, Earth 2, Psionic
Can "pick up" Mithril, Iron, Copper, Gold, Gems, Obsidian, Stone, Salt, Gunpowder, or Sheut Stones from neutral or own territory. I don't see a way to get the caster on top of Obsidian, but it's in there for completeness - all non-organic resources other than mana. The resource can then be dropped anywhere. You may not "cover up" a visible resource in your own or neutral territory. You may not cover any resouce, visible or not, in rival territory.

Shadow Jaunt
Req Mind 1, Shadow 1, Psionic
Similar to Divided Soul's ability, except that the Penumbral Form has only 2 move and is only a single turn summon. In return, he is also not blind, so he can scout. And like the Divided Soul, he can summon the caster to himself. Which I'm afraid might be overpowered since it in effect gives all of your scouts 2 extra movement that ignores terrain, though it does require two different sphere promotions and a mana type that you don't start with... (planning to have the summon effect stun the caster for a turn, so you can get 2 extra movement this turn at the cost of losing movement and casting next turn. or you can just summon the Penumbral Form and send him in one direction while you send your Scout in the other direction, scouting an extra couple of squares)

Coalesce
Req Mind 2, Shadow 2, Psionic
Damages all hidden, invisible, and illusion units in a large radius around the caster. Currently also works on Hidden Nationality, but considering whether I should remove that. Currently the damage is Physical 30%, max 75% - will probably be Psychic damage if that ever gets added in. Thinking I should bump up the damage limit to 100%, since it would still require 4 mages to kill a unit (in one turn, at least), and only damages hidden units... It's only castable when there is a valid target in range, so it also works as a limited Detect Invisibility. I do not intend for it to declare war, for the same reason that attacking an HN unit doesn't, although I'm not sure if calling the damage effect on a unit might auto-declare war anyway? Will have to test.

 

[EugeneStyles]

(...Reserved for more content...)

 

[shoggi]

Not much there yet, but I will comment on what you have so far.

To begin: A new damage type will require dll work. You can't do this with python or xml. This means your mod will have an own dll and be never fully modular.

Psionic Promotion: psionic resistance doesn't make much sense. If you don't plan to add psionic damage to other non-myu units, this will have no effect at all, except if you have selfdamaging spells, or your units go berserk and attack you.


Units:
Veteran.... is that a reference to the blue oyster cult song "veteran of the psychic wars" or is that just a coincidence?

Psion: There is already a unit named psion. it was a khadi unit originally and is still available as a mana guardian and if you get the khadi event as the amurite.


Spells:
Mutable Landscape should be easily possible via python and a promotion for the mage that represents the picked up resource.


Can't say if I will like them yet. I'm big on lore and besides "psychic dwarves" there isn't much yet.
But don't let that stop you from working on them.

 

[Viatos]

To begin: A new damage type will require dll work. You can't do this with python or xml. This means your mod will have an own dll and be never fully modular.

Psionic Promotion: psionic resistance doesn't make much sense. If you don't plan to add psionic damage to other non-myu units, this will have no effect at all, except if you have selfdamaging spells, or your units go berserk and attack you.

Just using normal damage seems fine; seems like ranged attacks are going to be a Thing for this civ, and AFAIK they can't transmit damage types anyway. Psionic could grant 10% spell resist instead of resistance to a non-extant damage type you will never get hit by.

For a Hero, you could also go with a psychic dwarven musketeer so that he can stack gunpowder, archery, and Force II + Telekinesis all in one disgusting package. Just sayin'.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Thanks for the critiques.

To begin: A new damage type will require dll work. You can't do this with python or xml. This means your mod will have an own dll and be never fully modular.

Are you sure about that? I mean, you definitely know more about it than I do. But I created the Damage type in the XML and it seems as easy as adding <DamageType>DAMAGE_PSYCHIC</DamageType> to the right place in the promotion... I fully realize though, that even though it looks from the XML like it should be completely modular, that doesn't mean that it will work that way. (Haven't had a chance to test it yet.)

If it can't be done, then it can't be done. Normally, I wouldn't shy away from dll stuff - would probably be more comfortable than python stuff, honestly - but I do want it to be modular, and it's a minor flavor point that can be glossed over. I didn't really want to create a new damage type, but I assumed that there were more damage types than there really are. Unfortunately, none of the existing damage types are appropriate. Maybe I can convince the team to add a new one? It doesn't have to be Psychic. "Mental", "Mind", "Force", "Magic", or even "Air" type would work. Actually, come to think of it, maybe I could use Lightning...

Psionic Promotion: psionic resistance doesn't make much sense. If you don't plan to add psionic damage to other non-myu units, this will have no effect at all, except if you have selfdamaging spells, or your units go berserk and attack you.

You definitely have a point, but I kind of put it in because it "makes sense". That is, if I do add psychic damage to other units, or perhaps make a second psychic civilization. Sort of intending to make Psychic damage strong against physical units, but level off the amount against itself. Especially if I gave Combat I-V -5% resist to psychic, then the +25% from Psionic would balance it out. Of course, if I can't add the damage type then it's all moot.

Units:
Veteran.... is that a reference to the blue oyster cult song "veteran of the psychic wars" or is that just a coincidence?

While every Myu has some innate psionic ability, only 1 out of every 1000 Myu Warriors has the physical and mental prowess to become a Veteran. Which makes their full title "Veteran of 1000 Psychic Dwarves". (rimshot) Good eye, BTW. Was wondering if anyone would catch that.

Can't say if I will like them yet. I'm big on lore and besides "psychic dwarves" there isn't much yet.
But don't let that stop you from working on them.

Fair enough. I'm not big on lore past the point of "oh, they're woodelves, but a little different", or "Dwarven golem masters". But I'll definitely put together something a bit longer for the Myu. They are going to draw at least a little bit on these guys. I wouldn't say "inspired by", because I had the idea to make a psionic dwarves faction and then did a search and found the Aleithians.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Just using normal damage seems fine; seems like ranged attacks are going to be a Thing for this civ, and AFAIK they can't transmit damage types anyway. Psionic could grant 10% spell resist instead of resistance to a non-extant damage type you will never get hit by.

True. The Psychic damage is more of a flavor thing anyway.

For a Hero, you could also go with a psychic dwarven musketeer so that he can stack gunpowder, archery, and Force II + Telekinesis all in one disgusting package. Just sayin'.

That's just sick. Sick! =)

I did forget to mention a few things about units, which I'll put into the main post sometime soon... Worker UU will be the Mud Golem (will explain lorewise). And planning to block Longbowman. Archer will be a UU - probably the Dwarven Slinger, but I might make a new UU for them... Considering moving it away from Archery, but probably won't do that. Otherwise it would make the whole line useless. I will probably leave Crossbowman in. All mounted will probably be blocked except for War Elephant. Dwarven Shadow and Dwarven Druid seem fairly obvious.

 

[Jabie]

Couldn't you just make Psychic a flat bonus for every Mind Mana you owned? It seems a lot easier to comprehend than a whole new variety of combat and is probably a damn sight easier to code. I can't see why becoming more competent in combat would make you more vulnerable to psychic abilities.

Also, with the former Patrian Archmage of Mind Magic a lunatic, Hyborem Whispering into your dreams and the Octopus Overlords waiting for the stars to be right, being psychic in Erebus is arguably more of a curse than a blessing.

 

[Valkrionn]

Any new combat type must be reflected in the DLL (same thing as a game option; Looks easily done in the XML, but won't work without DLL work).

That said, It's just like 2 lines of code per damage type. I'm not opposed to adding them, even if they aren't used in the core mod.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Couldn't you just make Psychic a flat bonus for every Mind Mana you owned? It seems a lot easier to comprehend than a whole new variety of combat and is probably a damn sight easier to code. I can't see why becoming more competent in combat would make you more vulnerable to psychic abilities.

It doesn't. It's the same thing as Iron Weapons being +10% vs. Bronze Weapons (as opposed to +0% vs. no weapons). You could say "why does having a bronze weapon make you more vulnerable to iron weapons." But you'd be ignoring that the Bronze Weapons give a +1 str (modified by your percentage bonuses). It's extremely rare that a unit with Iron Weapons has a higher chance vs. a unit with Bronze Weapons than vs. that same unit with no weapons.

The idea is that your combat training is less useful against an opponent that attacks your mind. My thought is actually that -5% resistance is actually too little since the units don't even do Psychic as their entire strength. Of course, this all assumes that it's even possible to add a damage type. Which I've been told it is not.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Any new combat type must be reflected in the DLL (same thing as a game option; Looks easily done in the XML, but won't work without DLL work).

That said, It's just like 2 lines of code per damage type. I'm not opposed to adding them, even if they aren't used in the core mod.

Please???

I feel like it'd be nice for there to be almost one per mana type (certain mana types wouldn't need it, like Metamagic). But if that can't/won't be done, could you add one called "Psychic" or if not that, maybe "Mind", "Mental", "Force", or "Magic"?

Not critical to my modmod, but it would be kind of nice to have available.

 

[isthmus]

I can't see why becoming more competent in combat would make you more vulnerable to psychic abilities.

Everyone knows that psychic is super-effective against fighting!

This civ looks cool by the way

 

[Evalis]

Yeah just ask Xavier... >.>

A couple notes though.. I'm fairly certain that giving something channeling I or II does not make them eligible for either the experience gain or the ability to choose spells. Only arcane units can choose spells that are level 1.. so you don't really need to worry about them being able to choose a plethora of abilities or from gaining extrordinary ammounts of experience.

As far as world spell is concerned.. perhaps give all units magic resistance (permanent) and magic immunity for 20 turns (probably based on game speed).

 

[Viatos]

True. The Psychic damage is more of a flavor thing anyway.

Given that "force" doesn't have a damage type, and the arguments raised, why not let it stay in the lore, represented ingame with spell effects and UUs? In particular, psychic resistance is kinda silly and the idea of giving units lowered resistance is nonsense, why not just make Myu units with the damage you want them to deal?

For a worldspell, you could also go with something like Orchestra of Minds, allowing all cities to produce Research at 50% higher then normal (100% for most cities, 150% for Academy cities) for 10 turns. Could be done through a UB that appears and disappears at the end of duration.

I wouldn't say "inspired by", because I had the idea to make a psionic dwarves faction and then did a search and found the Aleithians.

Huh. Woulda guessed duergar, the ancient WotC psychic dwarf standby. If you need lore help, let me know.

 

[cvx]

What about moving the damage type thing completely into xml? Shouldn't be that much of a problem and if done right there is no additional overhead imo.

And btw psychic dwarfs <<< illithids ... FOREVER

 

[Valkrionn]

What about moving the damage type thing completely into xml? Shouldn't be that much of a problem and if done right there is no additional overhead imo.

And btw psychic dwarfs <<< illithids ... FOREVER

IIRC, there is a reason changes must be matched in the DLL.

More than likely, the simple fact that it is a BasicInfos file. The majority of those files must have new additions matched in the DLL.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

You should look at how Machinos Affinity is worked out.
You could have all sort of bonuses instead of just flat +X strength.

I mean, if your people are telepathic/telekinetic would this not be best reflected by them having +X First strikes instead of strength. The idea that they can read the opponents moves and use short range mind powers (think force push) would be perfectly reflected through this.

Something like +1 First strike per mind mana caped at +5 or something. But when you reach the cap, you also get first strike immunity. It would be like getting the drill line for free.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Okay, leaving aside the Psychic damage thing for a moment (incidentally, my units show up with +1 Psychic Strength, with the "correct" total strength, and the win percentage is calculated as if Psychic was a real damage type. Funny. I guess whatever makes added damage types not work forgot to notify the percentage calculation. )...

Anyway... Having Mind I available so early is pretty strong. +2 Science and +1 Great Sage starting around turn 10 (assuming you find something to kill for a promotion), is good, but is it too good? The Myu do give up some good stuff in order to have their regular units able to cast a few spells. No weapons, and few special features *other* than those spells.

Also, I'm adding a +50 Workrate bonus to Accelerate. This will work for both Myu and Luchiurp players using this mod. I think it's a good thing for Mud Golems especially since they don't get free XP and improvement rate has been slowed down so much (I wonder if Luchiurp needs the boost? I haven't played them in a long, long time. Certainly not since Force mana was created... TBH, I'm not sure how often Luchiurp players use Force mana.)

 

[azzedar]

reminds me of Clan Duergar, especially after the psions rule thing in d&d 3.5
nasty little fellows. i like them =)

why not be inspired by their fate...

... in erebus that would mean:
- exiles from the underhome?
- maybe a region of the underhome collapsed, isolating them from the rest? which they somehow twisted to "the other dwarfs left us alone"?
-> beeing comitted to some kind of evil deep beneath the earth?
-> beeing exposed to large amounts of pure mind mana?
- a splinter faction of the luchuirp? either also victim to a desaster or who have done experiments on themselves?
- a big ritual that was done many years ago, to bring magic to the dwarves? (which could also be a cross-remark to why the majority of dwarves doesnt like magic/doesnt use it) - which then hardly failed?

must be something that tells us why "all Myu have some innate psionic talent"

good luck with that project...

 

[EugeneStyles]

reminds me of Clan Duergar, especially after the psions rule thing in d&d 3.5
nasty little fellows. i like them =)

why not be inspired by their fate...

I actually don't see these guys as being much like the Duergar at all. For one thing, I never think of the Duergar as particularly psionic and didn't even know that they'd retconned them to *be* psionic. In 4e, they appear to be back to normal, underdark-dwelling, cruel and evil dwarves.

I also don't see these guys as evil. I'm working on a very basic knowledge of FfH lore, but I'm going with something like: they succumbed to the influence of Mammon during the Age of Magic, giving in to a lust for power and discovering forbidden secrets of the mind. When the Age of Ice hit, Kilmorph cursed them to wander the ice while her more loyal subjects took refuge underground. But when they were decimated by frost and starvation, they begged her for mercy. She could not stand to see any of the dwarves suffer, because they have always been first in her heart, and she took pity. She banished them to the very depths of the earth, where they would live as ascetics and reflect on the evils of greed. Long after the Age of Ice ended, they emerged again, finding a world bursting with life and sunshine, but also harboring a growing evil.

 

[EugeneStyles]

You should look at how Machinos Affinity is worked out.
You could have all sort of bonuses instead of just flat +X strength.

I mean, if your people are telepathic/telekinetic would this not be best reflected by them having +X First strikes instead of strength. The idea that they can read the opponents moves and use short range mind powers (think force push) would be perfectly reflected through this.

Something like +1 First strike per mind mana caped at +5 or something. But when you reach the cap, you also get first strike immunity. It would be like getting the drill line for free.

I prefer to manifest most of that with ranged attacks, which are going to be a major focus for this civ. Also, I will probably never include anything that demands stockpiling tons of the same mana - I find that strategy to be far too common already, and a little boring.