[Module in Development]The Myu Collective

[Oranos]

I like the sound of the Mind/Shadow recon line. The shadowed thoughts spell sounds good, though maybe make it Mind II/Shadow II, with temporary invisibility being the Mind I/Shadow I, the reasoning being they prevent anyone from thinking about them. Maybe perception could allow units to see them.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Not really looking for a pyrokinesis unit... I considered making the Recon line fire-based, but a) I think fire is overused, b) I don't see it as thematically appropriate, and c) they already have a mudball, so I'd rather go a different route from Fireballs.

Personally, I see the Recon line being less about personal enhancement (I feel like the Melee line is already based on that, though Mind II/Earth II is kind of an exception - but then again, Earth II giving Stoneskin is definitely in the personal enhancement boat), and more about manipulation and/or divination.

I was considering maybe Dimensional, though... psychoportation and the like. Possibly a spell to "Mark" an allied unit and then later teleport him to the location of the caster.

 

[azzedar]

I was considering maybe Dimensional, though... psychoportation and the like. Possibly a spell to "Mark" an allied unit and then later teleport him to the location of the caster.

could be difficult to mod, but im not the expert on that.
the first question is, what do you want your recon units to be able to do? usual scout stuff? support damage/effects? get-away-abilities? damage without beeing in danger to die aka ranged attacks? or just anything as long as it fits and is cool?

you wrote divination. give them a spell to enhance vision. like beeing stuned for two rounds in exchange for +2vision on 1st round and +3 on third. like concentrating to scry mentally

 

[EugeneStyles]

Okay, added some Shadow stuff (among other things). Azzedar - though the Shadow spells don't really resemble your ideas, I did use them as a jumping off point... I'm considering that the Mind I/Shadow I spell might need to stun the caster at the end of the turn (until the end of the next turn), because otherwise it might be too strong. And it does, in a way, give your unit extra sight/movement like you suggested.

I didn't add the maze-trap spell - currently planning on making it a special ability for the Ranger UU.

 

[Jabie]

Here's a shot at some Lore for your unnamed Myu leader.

Spoiler :

“Mr. Sulman. What can the Myu do for you?”

You didn’t even shake my hand. You just sit there looking out the window. Can’t even be bothered to make eye-contact with me. You haven’t even looked at your notes. Hells, I’m feeling tense. Can’t let him get to me. Musn’t show tension. “You must be the Prefect. I’ve heard so much about you.” Good opening gambit. Sounds friendly. Just a hint of menace.

“My reputation evidently precedes me.”

Yes, and I notice you didn’t add, unlike yours, Mr Nobody. Bloody Nobs, they’re all the same. “I would like to make some business arrangements. I understand before any merchant can trade with the Collective they must seek an audience with you.”

“That is correct. Perhaps we can discuss this matter over a cup of tea. The kettle has just come to the boil.”

Nice touch. Makes you look like you’re in complete control. You must’ve known I was coming and put the kettle on beforehand. “Yes, thank you. Two...”

“...spoonfuls of milk and a squeeze of lime?”

Damn! That was impressive. Your spies must have seen me drinking in the cafe earlier. “Thank you.” Good. Good. Got that one right. Surprised, trying to hide it, and almost succeeding. You're just playing with me, projecting a sense of apprehension. Trying to get me off-guard so you can winkle out all my secrets. I must be getting better. I can’t believe some of the things I told Perp...

“The Myu Collective welcomes trade from all corners of Erebus. So long as you respect our customs and obey our laws, you will find that the Myu are renowned for their openness and honesty.”

You sound keen all of a sudden. “That’s excellent news.” Play it easy, play it easy. “My patron would like to obtain a contract to sell Myu glass in Prespur.” And provide me with a plausible excuse to observe your military capacity.

“Tell me. What do you know about glass?”

“Not a lot, but everyone knows that the Myu craft the finest glass in all of Erebus.” Flattery. That ought to swing it. Most Nobs are suckers for the old honeyed lips.

“Indeed. And what do you see when you look through this window?”

What is this, an archery lesson? “I can see several houses, the granary, the bridge and the city walls.” Through the steam, that is. Damned thing’s completely misted up. Maybe it’s a trick. Best keep it honest. “It’s a credit to your craftsmanship that I can still make out the buildings so well through the steam.” Honesty and flattery, sometimes I excel myself.

“As I thought. I’m afraid this pane is only of a moderate quality. You do not see the full picture. Look at the shapes within the steam. This mark here shows where the gaffer had not cleaned the marver completely. It is not obvious, but under the application of an external influence its failings soon becomes apparent. Glass has history, Mr Sulman. A man who learns to read a pane of glass is a wise man indeed.”

Was that a threat or are you just trying to show off? You’re probably just trying to make me feel inferior. Best to meet you with a little force of my own. “I trust you will ensure that my patron only receives glass of the finest calibre. He is a powerful man and does not tolerate fools lightly.” Fools. I wonder who they sent to replace me in Jubilee.

“Rest assured we take our responsibilities seriously. Our reputation depends upon honest trade. We will ensure that all the glass we supply is of the highest quality... And in return you will negotiate a new market within Prespur for the Myu.”

“Yes. My patron would pay handsomely for your finest work.” I bet he bloody would, especially if it comes with a red tint. Makes it easier to hide the....

“Have you lived in Prespur long, Mr Sulman?”

“Most of my life.” Always leave a little wriggle room. “Though like any merchant I’ve had occasion to travel.”

“Indeed. And where did your voyage last take you?”

“Jubilee. It’s true what they say. See Jubilee and die.” I could have. Got out in time, though, not like the last poor sod. Still I don’t know why the Master recalled me. He didn’t even want to what happened to the ambassadors for the Bannor Protectorate and the Clan of Embers. Two weeks in Jubilee, then straight off to Bikupa.

“Did you enjoy your time in Jubilee? I have heard a great many things about the Balseraphs.”

I’m sure you have. “They have a great many wonders to behold and their people are the most inventive I have ever met, but their government is too unstable and their traders too unreliable for the Calabim to foster any but the most trivial business relationships with them.” I know where this is leading.

“Your patron. You are completely loyal to him? I'm sure a man with your financial capabilities would have little difficulty finding employment elsewhere.”

Like a spring-loaded dagger. Got to get this one right. Do I tell you the truth? Can I trust you? “Without a shadow of a doubt. My patron looks out for my best interests.” Mostly by locking them in a dungeon! Can’t afford to show dissension. Not yet. Maybe later. When the time is right.

“I’m glad to hear to hear that, Mr Sulman. You understand my caution. It would not do for us to employ a disloyal servant. The scandal would inevitably harm our long-term interests with the Calabim.”

“I understand.” No allies for the resistance here then. Strange. The steam on the window has evaporated. Looks like it’s going to be a clear day.

“I think our business is concluded. The Myu will accept your offer in return for a quarter of all the glass profits in Prespur and the surrounding territories. My clerk can help you with the necessary paperwork and we will arrange a tour of the glassworks tomorrow afternoon. In the meantime, please feel free to enjoy the liberty of the city”

-Well- I’m glad that’s over, I always find speech so tiresome, how do they manage it?-Jubilee’s- -got- -him- -all- -mixed- -up- –Cunning- -gambit- -on- -Flaurous- -part.- Yes, he doesn’t realise he’s a tool. –Still-, -he- -could- -be- -useful.- Did you harvest anything of interest? -Fragments- some of the things I told Perp... plausible excuse... sometimes I excel... I wonder who they sent to replace me in Jubilee... a little wriggle... what happened to the ambassadors for the Bannor Protectorate and the Clan of Embers... spring loaded dagger... resistance And the seeds? –Yes- -Tension- -apprehension- -and- -dissension- -have- -begun-

Notes.

Spoiler :

I gave your leader the name "The Prefect" As a telepath, it's quite possible that those that his name is only known within the upper echelons of his own civilisation, so using only his title might convey this. The Prefect also implies authority, based on power been granted by another.

Glass makes a good motif for the civilisation. It can be seen through, but yet acts as a barrier, epitomising the ease at which the Myu can read the thoughts of others, whilst other nations (excluding Perpentach and possibly high ranking Mind mages) are disadvantaged. Furthermore glass is typically created through heating sand. Given Kilmorph's rejection of the Myu, this could have an alternative reading as an act of revenge or rebellion. In-game, this can be represented by using the glassworks from Rise of Mankind which could act as a subpar forge replacement that provides a luxury item called Glass.

Narrative fluff. Sulman is the envoy sent to replace the Calabim envoy in the story Life at the Top which you can find in the Story thread in the Lore forum. (You can also find out a lot more about the Bannor and Clan ambassadors and the lives of a diplomats in Perpentach's court.)

Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun is a line from The Demolished Man, but you knew that anyway.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Jabie - I like it and will definitely try to work it in when I add the evil leader. I feel like you definitely get where I'm coming from with this race and I appreciate that.

I'm not sure that I necessarily want to add Glass Works. I already have Crystal Works. The Myu use Crystal and Gems to attune their psychic powers, and yeah, Glass does make sense in a similar way and for the reasons that you mention. So I might think about adding it in, but I'm not too keen on adding a new resource even if it's only a luxury resource.

The evil leader won't make it into the first version, so I've got some time to decide on that. I'm actually getting close to finishing the first version of this modmodmod, so I can release and let people test and tell me what still needs work. I'm trying to decide on a hero and worldspell, need to add a 4th tier melee and 3rd & 4th tier recon UU, and need to test a few things before I can release. I would like to add 3rd level psionic spells too, and try to test/balance as much as possible, but those things might wait until 2nd version. Beta release will have very little new art (basically a mudball is the only thing), and very little lore or pedia entries.

 

[Jabie]

Thanks. Some other thoughts that occur to me. As ever, disregard them if they are of no use to you.

A psychic or semi-psychic race ought may be more prone to groupthink than a normal civilisation. This is a phenomenom which occurs in tightly-knit groups whereby particular memes become dominant, possibly at the expense of more beneficial ideas. A typical example might be in a group of gamers that play Puerto Rico or Magic the Gathering where certain strategies become perceived as dominant and as a result other startegies are neglected. When a new player joins the group, they may have new strategies of their own which completely blindside the original playing group.

There are a number of ways this could be modelled within the game - the simplest being a flat science and culture penalty. An alternative might be variable tech costs - sometimes the dominant idea will be right and will circumvent a lot of trial and error, sometimes it will be wrong and will delay research. This modcomp might be useful: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=248981 if you decide to take this path.

If you decide on the simpler option of a flat penalty, then there needs to be some balancing mechanics. These can be used to give your Civ a unique playstyle, like the Khazad or Kuriotates, where the player needs to take into account the unique nature of the Civ they are playing. Crystal weapons which give a tech bonus for every combat victory have been discussed. An additional option might be a civilisation which gives a trait to every combat unit by the Myu a +1 Science and +1 Culture for every successful combat. Another mod which is almost certainly worth looking at for this Civ would be the tech by conquest mod, which grants bonus beakers upon the conquest of another Civilisations cities. You can find this mod here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=245593

I'm pretty sure I've seen a mod which allows tech creep based on trade routes. Sadly I couldn't find it. The idea is that every trade route to a foreign Civ that possesses one or more techs you do not possess also adds an equal amount of science to one of those techs. For instance, if you have a trade route worth 5 Gold with the Sheaim who possess the Poisons, Corruption of Spirit and Iron Working techs, you would get 5 Science towards one of those techs randomly. This means that you occasionally get random techs, quite possibly in a tech you had no interest in researching. It also plays well with their general Lore. They (used to) worship Mammon, so running Civics such as Foreign trade and building commercial buildings plays into their hands.... and Mammon's as well.

As I stated in a previous post, there are some things in Erebus which it may be better to be ignorant of. The Octopus Overlords are the most obvious example, although Hyborem whispering into your dreams and meeting Perpentach for the first time may also prove exceptionally dangerous for the Myu. This could be modelled with a Dark Age, the reverse of a Golden Age (i.e. just multiply the bonuses provided by a golden Age by -0.5 to -1) To balance this Golden Ages could be rewarded at certain activities such as researching Strength of Will and/or building the Bazaar of Mammon. In addition, after experiencing a Dark Age, the Myu could use these memories to inflict a double-length Dark Age on everyone else as their world spell, essentially the diametric opposite of the Balseraphs.

Mind Stapling (which comes after OO on the tech tree and would hence engender experiencing a Dark Age) would be of particular interest to the Myu. One could envisage a new Labour civic - Hivemind - which further crippled their Science and Culture, but massively increased their productivity as a result.

Finally, another mod worth a butcher's, more from a flavour perspective is the Show Hidden Attitude mod. Sometimes the AI hides it's true feelings, so although it states it's attitude with you is +5, it's actually only +1. This mod http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335966 reveals their true sentiments about you. A psychic race ought to benefit from this mod.

 

[EugeneStyles]

A psychic or semi-psychic race ought may be more prone to groupthink than a normal civilisation. This is a phenomenom which occurs in tightly-knit groups whereby particular memes become dominant, possibly at the expense of more beneficial ideas. A typical example might be in a group of gamers that play Puerto Rico or Magic the Gathering where certain strategies become perceived as dominant and as a result other startegies are neglected. When a new player joins the group, they may have new strategies of their own which completely blindside the original playing group.

The evil leader will get the Controlling trait (in addition to psionic disciple units), which reduces culture and prevents anarchy. I'm fine with leaving the good/neutral leaders without it. Actually with the good leader (the only one implemented so far), the Myu economy is very good. Not quite on the level of Lanun or Khazad, but early access to Inspiration is quite helpful.

Crystal weapons which give a tech bonus for every combat victory have been discussed.

This is implemented already. The xml variable that allows science on combat win only gives you beakers toward the tech that the killed unit requires, so I made a python function to give you beakers toward your currently-researching tech.

An additional option might be a civilisation which gives a trait to every combat unit by the Myu a +1 Science and +1 Culture for every successful combat.

There is also a way to add culture on win via xml, but I haven't tested it. I'm wondering if it gives you culture on the square you're standing in? Because just gaining +2 Culture doesn't seem to mean anything to me. Not planning on adding it, anyway.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a mod which allows tech creep based on trade routes.

Very interesting, but doesn't entirely make sense to me as a mechanic for just the Myu... Tech creep by culture seems like something that should happen to all civs, or perhaps a civ that is specifically a "trader" civ.

As I stated in a previous post, there are some things in Erebus which it may be better to be ignorant of. The Octopus Overlords are the most obvious example, although Hyborem whispering into your dreams and meeting Perpentach for the first time may also prove exceptionally dangerous for the Myu.

True, but I'm going to look at it this way: Psionics as practiced by most of the Myu is fairly limited and not particularly punished by the gods. However the evil leader uses psionic disciple units that try to wrest power directly from the gods. I'm planning to model this as psionic/divine spells having powerful effects but potential for backlash (dependent on the spell). However, the Dark Ages thing does sound interesting and I might add something like that when I add in the Evil leader in the second version.

Mind Stapling (which comes after OO on the tech tree and would hence engender experiencing a Dark Age) would be of particular interest to the Myu. One could envisage a new Labour civic - Hivemind - which further crippled their Science and Culture, but massively increased their productivity as a result.

Mind Stapling should definitely be a target for the Evil leader.

Finally, another mod worth a butcher's, more from a flavour perspective is the Show Hidden Attitude mod. Sometimes the AI hides it's true feelings, so although it states it's attitude with you is +5, it's actually only +1. This mod http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335966 reveals their true sentiments about you. A psychic race ought to benefit from this mod.

I like it, but it looks to be a dll mod, so I could not add it modularly. Which is too bad, because it would be perfect.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Added Hero:
Master Zho, an Archmage-type hero
Most of the pedia text for psionic spells will be Master Zho quotes.
Currently comes in at Divination (early, I know), 0/5 starts with Channeling 1/2/3, Mind 1/2/3, Dwarven. I'm thinking of a couple different ways to spice him up:
a) Gains Mind 3 at the end of each turn... Totally obliterates the one drawback to Mind 3, so could be tough to balance. If I did this, I think I'd cut back his strength to 0/3 and require Arcane Lore. Would that be enough?
b) Change unit combat to Commander (undecided on whether to let him command units, but probably yes - otherwise the unitcombat would be mostly because it makes sense and so he can use Crystal Weapons without being Melee or Adept), keeps Channeling 3 and Mind 3, gains Shadow 1, Earth 1 (and any other spheres that I make psionic spells for). This would block him from most spheres but still allow 3 levels in psionic spells.
"Looks can be deceiving, my student. Now I appear as an old dwarf, now an old human, now an orc."
"Can you appear as a young lass, master?"
"Hush, child."

Still trying to decide on a world spell --
Considering "Concentrate Power" - all of your units gain one level of Mind sphere (Mind 1 becomes Mind 2, etc.). Those with Mind 3 might receive something unique, like maybe a one-time use heavy damage spell or spellstaff.

I thought about "Reveal Map", but it makes the special recon units less attractive even if it goes back to fog of war a turn later.

Maybe some sort of psionic suicide bomber thing where all of your units gain a spell that lets them suicide for strong stack damage? Would expire in a few turns.

Anyone have any better ideas?

 

[Jabie]

Maybe the ability to randomly gain the Fear promotion.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Disappointed to not see much response here, but oh well. Jabie - not sure what you mean by that. I'm not sure I see these guys as particularly fearsome. Yeah, I guess they could use their mind powers to scare away enemies, but Fear is pretty strong, so I think I'd rather leave it alone for now.

World Spell currently implemented as Wave of Power - Your Mind 3 units gain a Spellstaff. Each of your other units gains +1 level of Mind. We'll see how it works.

I also added autopromotions that give all Tier 3 psionic units Channeling 2, and all Tier 4 psionic units Channeling 3. This saves me from having to make a lot of unique units that really just exist to give access to higher level spells. With this in mind, I removed the Transcendent (was a Phalanx replacement at one point and a Berserker replacement at another), and decided to skip the Beastmaster replacement for the time being (he will probably be back in Phase 2 with the neutral "shadowy" leader). If I end up with certain higher tier units that I want to limit their psionic power, then I'll just block promos.

Currently these autopromotions use a "Randomly Apply" promotion with 100% chance, but it might take a turn to kick in, depending on how you gain access to the unit (haven't fully tested yet). Once 1.31 comes out with a pyOnPromoTaken function (or whatever it's called), I can make it instant. Currently, I don't think there's any way to have an autoAcquire promotion give a unit another already existing promotion automatically and immediately. And I don't want to ForceOverwrite the Channeling 2 and 3 promotions.

So, with the hero and worldspell in, and higher tier units taken care of by autoAcquire promotions, I think I'm 95% ready to release verson 1 (or call it 0.5 alpha 1 ). I'm going to run a full game to test things out and make sure I don't have anything too crashy, and will start a new thread with download info once I get to that point.

 

[Jabie]

Fear would have been based on reading the fears of their opponents and then exploiting them. Giving all Units the Command I / Subdue Animals for free is another option, though potentially quite a powerful one which would mean they would need the average Myu unit would have to cost more.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

World Spell currently implemented as Wave of Power - Your Mind 3 units gain a Spellstaff. Each of your other units gains +1 level of Mind. We'll see how it works.

Don't you think that is quite meh for a world spell?

 

[EugeneStyles]

World Spell currently implemented as Wave of Power - Your Mind 3 units gain a Spellstaff. Each of your other units gains +1 level of Mind. We'll see how it works.

Don't you think that is quite meh for a world spell?

"We'll see how it works."

Anyway, I hate spells like Stasis or Arcane Lacuna that just makes the game annoying for every other player for X turns. Personally, I'd rather have this than some world spells, like March of the Trees, or whatever the Sidar crapspell is called...

I'm sure that it's not OVERpowered as currently implemented. It might be too weak, but then again if you have 30 or 40 tier 3 units that suddenly upgrade to getting Dominate, it might be pretty good... No one responded when I asked for ideas, but if someone comes up with an idea that makes sense to me, is more interesting than Wave of Power, and is reasonably doable, I'll give it a shot.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Fear would have been based on reading the fears of their opponents and then exploiting them. Giving all Units the Command I / Subdue Animals for free is another option, though potentially quite a powerful one which would mean they would need the average Myu unit would have to cost more.

Were you suggesting it as the world spell? Or something else?

I considered Subdue Animals, but I'm seeing them as not really having any animal empathy, so probably not going that way. The Command promotions definitely seem like a good idea. Will think about working them in and where.

Fear will probably play some part in the divine/psionic spells which will be part of the 3rd release. I actually have expanded my plans for the evil leader drastically, as far as what the divine/psionic spells will do. At least one of the spells will be a ritual (not like the Rituals in game currently) that needs to be cast several times on the same square, and sacrifices the caster each time. The one I have in mind will also involve a brand new summonable civ. One of the spells will have the potential to damage every rival unit on the map, probably declaring war on everyone. I'm thinking powerful, far-reaching effects with high potential for backlash. Difficult to balance, but he will probably be entirely unplayable for AI, so meant just to be a completely different experience for a player.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Personally I think you should wait with the world spell to see how the whole willpower and casting mechanics will look. Since the obvious thing would be to have it do damage to enemy WP or increase your own.

Think about for example a spell that would damage (temporarily) the WP of enemy casters turning all their summoned units berserk.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Okay, very close to releasing the first version.

Planning to add the following changes before release:
Field Fortification requires Recruiter promotion (Valk has this as a planned change for 1.31, and I want it in so that the hero (Master Zho) cannot build field fortifications).

Grey Seer (Ranger UU) moved to Tracking. Strength reduced to 5 to compensate, but will be able to acquire Crystal Weapons (which most recon units cannot). He will not obsolete, and will be the only unit that can cast "Shadow Trap". I tried to implement Shadow Trap as a terrain feature, but it's not going to work that way. So instead it will be an invisible immobile unit with 0 strength. Units that can see it can destroy it (just by attacking). Each turn, it will check for enemy units on its square. If it sees any, it will give one of them the Wandering Curse and then destroy itself.

World Spell will remain mostly the same. However, units with Mind 3 will not get a Spellstaff. Instead they will gain 2 promotions. 1) Auger Nightmares - Fear, removed after combat. 2) Dominator - requires Mind 3, Must Maintain, degrades to Mind 3 (i.e. if they fail on Dominate, they will lose Mind 3, which will cause them to lose Dominator, which will give them Mind 3 back, once). (edit: I stand corrected. Dominate does not work like that in RifE.)

 

[Valkrionn]

The second part of your worldspell is useless in RifE. Failing Dominate does not remove the spell. Instead, you are limited to 3 dominated units per caster. I'd use the Dominator promo to increase that req (reqDomination, the following code:

if caster.getNumForcedMinions() >= 3:
		return False

)

After the if, but before the return, add a check for dominator. If the unit has it, run a second ForcedMinions check for a revised cap (4, 5, 6, whatever. Old cap + extra).

 

[EugeneStyles]

The second part of your worldspell is useless in RifE. Failing Dominate does not remove the spell. Instead, you are limited to 3 dominated units per caster. I'd use the Dominator promo to increase that req (reqDomination, the following code:

if caster.getNumForcedMinions() >= 3:
		return False

)

After the if, but before the return, add a check for dominator. If the unit has it, run a second ForcedMinions check for a revised cap (4, 5, 6, whatever. Old cap + extra).

Ooh...

Hadn't realized that about Dominate, seems to make it even stronger than I already thought it was.

Is increasing the cap something that can be done modularly? If not, I'm not sure that I really have to have a bunch of dominators running around controlling more than 3 minions apiece anyway, so I might just go more on the fear angle. Or maybe the 1 use fear + 1 use spellstaff.

(edit: oh, well I guess Dominate could be modded with bForceOverwrite... which I'd be more comfortable doing with a spell than with some other elements)

 

[Swinkscalibur]

This brings up a good question. In order to overwrite a python function do you need to simply include the editted function in the modular python file or do you need to do some funny stuff and force overwrite a new python req into the xml of the spell?