1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Monarchist Cookbook Game 3, Hammurabi of Babylon!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Bleys, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,276
    I vote for Winston, with FH a close second (if I even have a vote). The problem with most of the saves is lack of any kind of military. I like Rolo's expansion, and having the GLH almost done means you have a chance to get it, but the gems city will be worthless for a long time without IW, and he only has warriors. Ditto with many of the other saves. If the barb action heats up, a lot of those warrior-guarded cities will be lost (and it was already heating up in my game).

    Another problem is that all of you have now seen Dave's save, which shows you the location of iron. At least Winston and FH have second cities that are "properly" placed to pick up the iron, and so will not be unduly influenced by knowing it's location when choosing subsequent city sites. It's almost as if you opened WB to take a peek.:( WH and FH (and Ranion and Rameau as well) also have archers up, which I think will be important if someone else on this continent builds the GW first - it often sends a stream of barbs towards other players.

    In any case, I think the best strat going forward is to take Toku out with quick IW and cats. Some cities should be settled towards HC to box him in (another plus for WH). Let Toku build those nice cities for you (and he can't work those gems yet, either).

    I think it's too bad that only Diamond and I went for the Oracle. Early CoL for early courthouses would really leverage organized for a powerful early rex (in addition to grabbing confucianism).

    Just my 2 :commerce:
     
  2. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,724
    I don't care which save we get as long as we get the GLH and can defend ourselves against barbs. I would veto any save that can't ensure us those two things.
     
  3. Negator_UK

    Negator_UK King

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    758
    Hi, I'm thinking about shadowing this agme, but my game has the HoF mod, not the BUG mod.

    If I install BUG will it screw up the other mods I have ??
     
  4. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    The save is a "no MOD loaded" save. There is an installation option of BUG that does not make it a "Loaded MOD".

    I am pretty sure that having BUG installed has no effect on the HoF MOD, but I would double check both of those forums. Also, this save is 3.17, has HoF been updated?

    You could just play the game with "no MOD loaded", but being a former HoF MOD lover myself, it can be more difficult without the warnings and such you are used to seeing. I have played BotM's with the HoF MOD while still having BUG installed (BUG does not modify game assets), but I had to re-set my Blue Marble and Civ Scale to the default settings (cloud cover, etc). However, that was 3.13, and I have not checked since upgrading to 3.17. As far as I know, 3.17 saves are not backward compatible, but 3.13 saves are forward compatible.
     
  5. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,735
    Location:
    A state of unquenchable rage
    @Bleys

    It looks like we're playing from your save. Can we get the next round started?
     
  6. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Well, I kind of thought we would have more votes, but I suppose the decision has to be made. I still dont think my save is all that great (especially compared to Dave, well done, learned something there, go IW early when you see no Copper and a potential monster Jungle city that you need to grab ASAP)

    We will be playing Round 2 from my save, which is linked here. This round will go until 400 AD.

    Please remember to use spoilers for your reports, and we also ask that once you decide to play the round, you avoid reading the reports of those who have already played that particular round.
     
  7. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,724
    Congrats Bleys! If we can get both the GW and the GLH that will be excellent.
     
  8. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Played my set, and I will just say this for now. I am LOVING this game! So far, its the best MC we have had, IMHO. EXCELLENT map set up S-Man! Maybe its this tectonics, since I am also way hooked on the Joao NC IX game, which has a very similar "feel" to it.

    I am going to wait until tomorrow to post my report though, but wow, I cant wait til next week. I am very pleased with my status, VERY pleased indeed! Went smoother than I expected, actually. I can forsee a TON of great play in the future rounds, with lots of room for everyones own "style" to make a dent in the game. I will say this much as well, I think we will have a hard time deciding next round.

    Heh, I wanna play it out, now, I knew that would happen. Hurry up and play guys! Its a BLAST of a map!
     
  9. ranion

    ranion Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    I played out my set too, i'm not sure i'm happy with it though, i'll have to see some other rounds before i can say for certain. I'll post it in a bit and you can all tell me what you think. its this part of my game that is usually pretty bad unfortunately, at least i think it is... i always have trouble with my tech choices, and i'm never quite sure how to properly run a classical era war quickly enough.

    I definatly agree with bleys, this map is lots of fun.
     
  10. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    I think this is a problem for many Monarch level players. I think we can all start respectably, and do the "Lib for a big tech, get Rifles, Draft like a sicko, Good Game" parts reasonably competently, but this "middle area" is where I start to wander myself.
     
  11. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    6,899
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Thanks... :blush: :D But I think several of you also deserve some credit for the map, since you provided the parameters. Glad you're enjoying it.
     
  12. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    6,899
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    A Classical Era war (note I'm not talking about an early Axe rush here, which is different) makes heavy use of two units, mainly: Swordsmen and Catapults. Of course you'll use other units: Axemen to defend your stack and newly-captured cities from melee units; Spearmen to defend the same from mounted units; and Archers to defend the cities period. If you're lucky enough to have ivory, War Elephants make a dandy supplement to your forces, and Horse Archers can be handy too. However, Swords and Cats are the workhorses.

    To get there, obviously, you need the Iron Working and Construction technologies, and you need a source of iron. An early Axe rush can help here, claiming more land for you and increasing the chances that you have iron somewhere. IW is available after the always-important Bronze Working tech, but it's expensive. Unless you were lucky enough to start with gold, silver, or gems in the fat cross, you may want to go after Alphabet instead and then trade for it, as some nearby civ is likely to have researched IW while you pursued Alphabet. Construction is harder to come by, as you have to tech from Pottery through Writing and Mathematics. The first two are crucial techs, though, and therefore high priorities; either one is going to power your chosen economy (Pottery for cottages or Writing for libraries and science specialists).

    You might be able to trade Alphabet for Mathematics. I often trade Alphabet for the religious techs, but if a classical era war is a priority you may want to hold on to Alphabet so you can trade it for IW and Mathematics. However, this may delay you too long. You may want to pursue Maths yourself; just be warned that the AI likes this tech, so you may not be able to trade it. Research Construction on your own; the AI often delays this tech, and if it doesn't, it charges an arm and a leg to obtain it through trade.

    Now, you need to get your classical era army built quickly, so that means whipping and chopping. Fortunately Mathematics increased your chopping yield. Your cities should also be larger now, able to work more tiles and regrow faster. You may even have a couple of early happiness resources to take the sting out of whipping. The point is, however, this: the AI loves Feudalism and Longbowmen. You want to field your army before those medieval units show up. Otherwise you're going to need a lot more Catapults. So get whipping and chopping.

    If you can get Open Borders with your chosen opponent, do so and scout his land and forces. Pick the best cities to target. Hint: they're not always the weakly-defended ones. If you can catch your opponent's main force in the first city you attack, you may be able to wipe it out and romp through the rest of his territory.

    Don't attack until you have enough units! You'll need around 4-6 Swords at least and the same number of Cats, and like I said, at least one Axe and Spear for protection. If you earned a Woodsman II or III Warrior, now's the time to upgrade him to an Axe. An Archer who earned Guerrilla II while fog-busting can be a handy stack defender as well.

    And don't forget to bring along units to defend the cities you capture
    ; this is a very common mistake. If you had to assemble defenders in a border city, move them to the new border city once their former home is no longer in danger of attack or counter-attack. Ideally you'd like to leave an Axe, a Spear, and an Archer in each captured city. If you can also leave a Chariot, Horse Archer, or War Elephant and a Catapult behind, you should be able to ward off any counter-attack.

    Keep building units. You're going to lose Catapults and very likely a couple of Swords in desperate fights as well. (Don't be afraid to do this a few times; winning the war is more important than preserving a unit or two, even a veteran.) Your empire is small at this time and has relatively low production, so you need to keep building reinforcements.

    You probably don't have Currency, let alone Code of Laws, so pick which cities to keep very carefully lest you wreck your economy post-conflict. Capitals are almost always worth keeping. Same for holy cities and cities with wonders. Also look for cities that have valuable resources or that can pay for themselves because they have a gold, silver, or gem mine. Don't be afraid to raze cities that have nothing to offer you immediately.

    A moment will eventually come when it's obvious that you've broken the enemy's back. That's the time to shift your core cities toward recovering the economy in the aftermath of the war. Stop building units back home and shift to infrastructure.

    And that's more or less it! Oh, and have fun!
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,910
    Catapults are the main catalyst for classical wars.

    Try to get them in your GG city for CR II.

    You can fight classical wars with a tech deficit with the right strategic resources:

    Catapults: Attack cities
    Axes: Stack defense - melee
    Spears: Stack defense - mounted
    HA's: Stack defense - Xbows

    Then with just

    Xbows: Stack defense - ALL melee (even maces)
    Pikes: Stack defense - knights +
    Knights: Stack defense - muskets

    Notice that in every case, you can counter a more recent unit with an earlier tech PROVIDED YOU HAVE THE STRATEGIC RESOURCES. I left elephants out, but they defend against both crossbows AND mounted effectively, making for a very simple stack.

    If you have access to both metal and horse, all you need is construction and HBR. Whip out a TON of units at the risk of economy (do avoid strike) and attack. Siege handles city attacks, the rest is handled by counter unit mechanics.

    This is a lot simpler if the AI lacks certain strategic resources, but the key point here is that anything can clean up after siege. Get the whip going!
     
  14. ranion

    ranion Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    HC was nothing but trouble for me this round, but he'll get his...

    final thoughts are in the state of the union at the bottom.

    short version (pictures not included)

    Spoiler :
    tech path went: finished pottery, IW, Writing, alphabet, math, currency, construction, start HBR.

    I probably could/should have traded for some of them and i probably could have prioritized better, ie construction and or hbr before currency, but i got some use out of what i teched.

    in babylon i finished the great wall, and went onto a bowman until it grew to pop 5, when it grew i threw a worker in for a couple turns to get it to a 2 pop whip with lots of overflow, and then when i whipped it the overflow went to complete the bowman. after that i went and tried for the GLH, which i lost by 1 turn. :mad: after i lost the glh i promptly put out a settler to grab our iron so i could start making swords and things to take my glh by force.

    Akkad whipped its monument and then did a bunch of stuff to prepare it to push out units galore, while dur-k mostly focused on making the most of its gems. I settled the new city Nippur on the desert tile near the wheat and iron, i figured i could take one of the poorer tiles out of its fat cross this way. with just wheat and alot of plains it was never going to be very big anyways.
    Once everything was connected (which probably took longer than it should have) i started working on swordsmen to stomp on HC.

    towards the back end of the round HC took that barb city that was sitting down to our south before i could get my hands on it. this annoyed me and granted him metal and pushed up my time line on crushing him for his insolence. it turns out that the iron that hc snagged from burgundian wasn't his only source and that he was also getting some through trade from KK. so in order to have a distinct advantage in war, when i felt i was ready to start beating on hc i bribed KK into war and jumped in and took away hcs iron. its really a pity i wasnt ready to start things earlier, because as it is, i was kinda stuck between holding off for 10 turns, both to build up and leave the choice for the next round, and declaring right away to keep HC from making any constructive use of his new found resource. hope i did the right thing.


    Wall of text version (albeit with a few pictures)
    Spoiler :
    Logging by BUG Mod 2.30 [Build 742] (BtS 3.13)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 100/750 (1500 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:47:40]

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Akkad
    Babylon grows to size 4
    Akkad finishes: Monument

    First thing I did this round was Whip the monument in Akkad, imo it should have been done on the turn that Akkad grew to pop 2, but I'm not going to complain too much its easy to overlook, I do it alot.

    Turn 101/750 (1475 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:47:56]
    Akkad begins: Bowman (37 turns)
    Dur-Kurigalzu founded
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Monument (45 turns)

    Tech learned: Pottery

    Turn 102/750 (1450 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:48:56]
    Research begun: Iron Working (25 Turns)

    I start iron working as soon as pottery is in, we need to get those gems and that rice hooked up asap, we also need to 'find' and hook up our iron.

    Turn 103/750 (1425 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:50:37]
    Babylon begins: Lighthouse (5 turns)

    i threw this lighthouse into the queue behind the Great Wall, i dislike how the autolog has it start on the turn it was put into the queue rather than the turn the first hammer goes into it.

    Turn 104/750 (1400 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:51:05]

    After End Turn:
    Akkad grows to size 2

    Turn 105/750 (1375 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:55:48]

    Babylon finishes: The Great Wall

    Turn 110/750 (1250 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:57:34]

    After End Turn:
    Babylon finishes: Lighthouse

    I built a bowman after the lighthouse in distant anticipation of a new settler after getting/losing the GLH, in retrospect this may have been a mistake. also, babylon had 1 turn left before it grew and i wanted another worker before starting the glh and i didnt think that stopping babylon from growing when it was that close was overly efficient.

    Turn 111/750 (1225 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:58:53]
    Babylon begins: Bowman (6 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Babylon grows to size 5

    Turn 112/750 (1200 BC) [11-Jul-2008 16:59:48]
    Babylon begins: Worker (6 turns)

    Turn 113/750 (1175 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:00:21]

    After End Turn:
    Akkad grows to size 3

    Turn 114/750 (1150 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:00:38]

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Babylon
    Babylon finishes: Worker

    what you see here is i threw the worker in once babylon grew to pop 5, and let the worker build for 2 turns, turning it into a 2 pop whip with lots of overflow. the overflow built the archer in queue. this here may have been the biggest part of the mistake, throwing babylon down to pop 3 to regrow while it built the glh, although it's hard to say.

    Turn 116/750 (1100 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:02:02]
    Babylon begins: The Great Lighthouse (75 turns)
    Akkad begins: Granary (45 turns)

    Between city growth and a couple of premined hills the time on the GLH came noticeably down.

    Turn 117/750 (1075 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:04:05]

    After End Turn:
    Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 2

    Turn 121/750 (975 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:06:12]

    The whip was applied in Dur-Kurigalzu
    Dur-Kurigalzu finishes: Monument

    notice the delay between when Dur-K hit pop 2 and when i whipped? yeah i forgot, just like i said usually happened... :blush:

    Turn 122/750 (950 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:07:38]
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Granary (90 turns)

    Turn 125/750 (875 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:09:33]

    After End Turn:
    Tech learned: Iron Working

    Turn 126/750 (850 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:10:09]
    Research begun: Writing (11 Turns)

    I want librarys and the techs that lie beyond...

    Turn 130/750 (750 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:13:43]

    After End Turn:
    Babylon grows to size 6

    babylon at max pop, i rejig all the tiles for max prod.

    Turn 133/750 (675 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:14:17]
    A Camp was built near Akkad

    After End Turn:
    Buddhism has spread: Dur-Kurigalzu

    I have the option to switch, i decline, for now, i don't want the anarchy or the potential diplomatic hassle if it turns out that another religion or 3 show up.

    Turn 136/750 (600 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:15:08]

    After End Turn:
    Tech learned: Writing
    Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 2

    Turn 137/750 (575 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:15:23]
    Research begun: Mathematics (26 Turns)
    Babylon begins: Settler (9 turns)

    Logging by BUG Mod 2.30 [Build 742] (BtS 3.13)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 136/750 (600 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:17:20]

    After End Turn:
    Tech learned: Writing
    Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 2

    Other Player Actions:

    Turn 137/750 (575 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:20:29]
    Research begun: Alphabet (32 Turns)
    Babylon begins: Settler (9 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Akkad finishes: Granary

    Right here, you notice how i reloaded, and changed what i researched? this wasn't intentional, honest. what happened was that the GLH dropped somewhere else and i reloaded to see how close i was. i missed it by 1 turn :mad: 1 TURN!! :mad: 1! BLOODY TURN!:mad::mad::mad:

    ahem... I was somewhat angered by this, and i was so horribly tempted to reload and cheat my way to the glh either by whipping it, or chopping out another forest like i 'should have' in the first place, but i restrained myself and went looking to see who built it. I'm sure you can guess... no, really, go on i'll wait.







    yeah, thats right it was HC, the certifiable pain in everyones ass. Damn industrious little bastard, he just scored a huge diplo penalty with me for stealing my wonder. well, needless to say i instantly started making plans to take that wonder that he so thoughtlessly snatched right out of my greedy little hands. Granted i was in no way ready to instantly march on whatever incan city had built the damn thing, but i instantly started working towards that goal, as you will see...

    Turn 138/750 (550 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:23:40]
    Akkad begins: Barracks (7 turns)

    Turn 140/750 (500 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:24:17]
    A Farm was built near Dur-Kurigalzu

    rice is in, now onto the gems...

    After End Turn:
    Akkad finishes: Barracks

    Turn 144/750 (440 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:25:07]
    Akkad begins: Bowman (7 turns)
    Akkad begins: Galley (13 turns)

    i really should have been more up on the ball with getting a settler to our iron, it took way too long for me, and had i not thought about the glh i would easily have had it by now. i blame FH for planting the seed in my head with his post just before we started. :p

    After End Turn:
    Babylon finishes: Settler

    Turn 145/750 (425 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:25:26]
    Babylon begins: Galley (5 turns)

    at this point the barbs and their galleys reminded me that the great wall does nothing to stop boats, so i had babylon and akkad get some galleys to whip out. i put a turn or so into each and then whipped them for 2 pop. i lost 2 fishing boats, but i managed to save the third.

    Other Player Actions:
    A Fishing Boats was destroyed near Akkad
    A Fishing Boats near Akkad was destroyed by Barbarian Galley

    Turn 146/750 (410 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:26:02]
    A Mine was built near Dur-Kurigalzu

    Other Player Actions:
    While defending in the wild near Akkad, Bowman (2.52/3) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 90.1%)
    A Fishing Boats was destroyed near Babylon
    A Fishing Boats near Babylon was destroyed by Barbarian Galley
    State Religion Change: MC3 Bleys Rd1(Babylon) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'
    Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards MC3 Bleys Rd1(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    3 things happened here, 1. that bowman i built before the glh, he saved the settler i built after the glh from certain doom at the hands of a barbarian archer. 2. the galley continued on his warpath, my response is just about to be whipped. 3. HC asks me to convert. i agree, inspite of the fact that i want to kill the bastard, because i figured he might be willing to trade something juicy before i kill him, and that he might try to convert kk, his other neighbor, and diplo bonuses like that are never bad, also, since no other religions have popped up in the area there was no real reason not to.

    Turn 147/750 (395 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:26:31]
    Nippur founded
    Nippur begins: Monument (23 turns)

    built Nippur on the desert tile NW of the wheat and SW of the iron, there is no other food anywhere in that area, and it seemed like a better spot than on the iron like the little blue circle wanted me to. it also means i can start working on improving both right away.

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Babylon
    The whip was applied in Akkad
    Babylon finishes: Galley
    Akkad finishes: Galley

    Turn 148/750 (380 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:28:15]
    Akkad begins: Work Boat (8 turns)
    Babylon begins: Work Boat (5 turns)
    While attacking, Galley decimates Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 32.2%)

    This made me happy, i only needed one of the 2 galleys i had built, and i saved the third fishing boats. the overflow from the whips was practically enough to finish the new workboats in 1 turn.


    Turn 157/750 (245 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:36:05]
    A Farm was built near Nippur

    I farmed the wheat before mining the iron, possibly a mistake, but i was thinking more about city growth at this point than getting iron to my other cities, my other workers were inbound to help hook up the iron quick though, so i think it worked out.

    After End Turn:
    Akkad finishes: Lighthouse

    Turn 158/750 (230 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:38:06]
    Akkad begins: Bowman (7 turns)

    since i dont have the iron hooked up yet, and my power is lagging i've started to think about some token defence for my north and west borders to keep toku from getting any ideas.

    Turn 159/750 (215 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:39:22]

    After End Turn:
    Tech learned: Alphabet

    Turn 160/750 (200 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:39:31]
    Research begun: Mathematics (13 Turns)

    alphabet in, math -> construction & currency, i'm going to need cats for HC, and the extra trade route for the economy.

    After End Turn:
    Babylon finishes: Granary

    Turn 161/750 (185 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:40:13]
    Babylon begins: Library (14 turns)

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Nippur
    Nippur finishes: Monument

    Turn 162/750 (170 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:40:58]
    Nippur begins: Barracks (19 turns)

    Turn 163/750 (155 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:41:17]

    After End Turn:
    Akkad finishes: Bowman

    Turn 164/750 (140 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:41:38]
    Bowman promoted: City Garrison I
    Akkad begins: Swordsman (10 turns)
    Babylon begins: Swordsman (6 turns)

    Iron in, i start building swords.

    Turn 165/750 (125 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:42:31]

    After End Turn:
    Nippur finishes: Barracks

    Turn 166/750 (110 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:43:36]
    Nippur begins: Granary (45 turns)

    Turn 171/750 (35 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:46:55]

    After End Turn:
    Tech learned: Mathematics
    Babylon finishes: Library

    Turn 172/750 (20 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:47:06]
    Research begun: Currency (13 Turns)

    Turn 173/750 (5 BC) [11-Jul-2008 17:51:15]

    That Barb city down near our south eastern border, turns out there is iron in its first ring, and HC is bearing down on it faster than i can, since it looks like aside from that city he has no metal (from the sit-rep screen he cant build anything that requires it). This is bad. I really had to start speeding up my plans. HC grabs it in the next few turns and as soon as he has it he upgrades the quechua he took it with to a spearman. This annoyed me, greatly, turns out that he does have metal, right? so i sent a unit scouting into his lands to scope things out, look at his defenses and cities and such.

    Turn 174/750 (10 AD) [11-Jul-2008 17:54:34]

    Other Player Actions:
    State Religion Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'

    yay, a new Buddha buddy!

    Turn 180/750 (100 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:00:16]
    Ethel Rosenberg (Great Spy) born in Babylon

    I settle the great spy, it may not have been the best use of it, but the beakers and the eps are pretty solid at this point in the game. if i get another, i'll build scotland yard.

    Turn 181/750 (115 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:01:09]

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd1(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    this time his pleased status becomes important, just wait for it.

    Turn 183/750 (145 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:03:57]

    After End Turn:
    Dur-Kurigalzu finishes: Library

    Turn 184/750 (160 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:07:13]
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Barracks (6 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Tech learned: Currency

    Turn 185/750 (175 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:09:38]
    Research begun: Construction (9 Turns)

    Turn 189/750 (235 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:18:04]
    Babylon begins: Axeman (6 turns)
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Market (33 turns)

    At this point, i've finished scouting HC's land and i find that he indeed has no metals aside from that barb city he just captured. so that means he's getting his Iron from his obviously very obliging neighbor KK. this annoys me greatly because the AI will rarely trade a strategic resource like that to a human player, even at friendly, yet KK dosn't seem to have a problem trading HC iron at pleased. However i have a solution to this problem, you see KK will declare war on his friend and my pest for a price (which is strange to me, becuase he's willing to declare war on his friend, but not willing to stop trading :crazyeye: ), its a pretty steep price, but its a price i'm willing to pay if it means HC caves and KK stops trading him iron. So i hand over currency and maths and a 163 gold, KK declares war on HC, and so do i...




    Turn 190/750 (250 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:24:02]
    Kublai Khan(Mongolia) declares war on Huayna Capac(Inca)
    MC3 Bleys Rd1(Babylon) declares war on Huayna Capac(Inca)

    Turn 191/750 (265 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:25:43]
    Christianity founded in a distant land

    Turn 192/750 (280 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:26:05]

    I take burgundian with minimal losses (see: no), also i kill a barb sword thats sitting just outside it menacing me.



    Other Player Actions:
    Civics Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 194/750 (310 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:30:02]

    After End Turn:
    Tech learned: Construction

    Turn 195/750 (325 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:31:11]
    Akkad begins: Catapult (11 turns)
    Research begun: Horseback Riding (8 Turns)

    I go after HBR so we can start fielding hefalumps as soon as possible.

    After End Turn:
    Whip anger has decreased in Akkad
    Nippur finishes: Swordsman

    Turn 196/750 (340 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:32:47]
    Nippur begins: Catapult (7 turns)
    Babylon begins: Catapult (6 turns)

    now that i have construction i start building the catapults that i'm going to need to break cities like Tiwanaku and Cuzco.

    Turn 200/750 (400 AD) [11-Jul-2008 18:37:24]
    I move on and capture Ollantaytambo because its lightly defended and on a flat spot, so I don't need cats to break its defenses like i would with the other two big cities near by.



    this is where the round ends. I'm not sure i like ending at the beginning of a war like this, but i don't think it'll be much of an issue. I probably could have done things better, like i said, this is quite probably the worst part of my game, gearing up for and executing a war quickly, they mostly turn into a horrible slug fest. Normally I wouldn't have gone to war so close to the end of a round in a format like this, however I think that delaying it 10 turns would have been a bad idea and left HC too much time to make use of that iron that he took from under my nose. finishing him off won't be too hard though so i'm not too worried.

    I'm not sure if it was mentioned in the auto log anywhere, but gold popped in one of the mines south of Babylon, which is cool, and probably helped the tech rate a bit.

    It'll be interesting to compare my game to the others, I tend to meander a bit looking for the right techs at this point in the game.



    State of the union (mostly pictures)
    Spoiler :
    first up, an overview of what we see


    second what we intend to take


    third how much everyone likes (or doesn't) us


    fourth what we teched (sorta)


    fifth whats up for trade


    and finally the resources under our control, note the new gold


    FINAL THOUGHTS

    the good: Hey, we got some gold, thats good right? we're building a potential ally in KK, although he's going to be blocked off from the rest of the world and therefore of limited use in the long term, but thats okay, he's useful now. The war with HC should be a relatively easy one, especially once the cats show up. he has nothing but archers to throw at us, and he has plenty of wonders and a holy city for us to grab. i feel bad about starting it so late in the round and before i was completely ready, but i can't see how delaying it would have payed off given the circumstances.

    The bad: I'm at war. this is really pretty huge. i geared up for it slowly, losing the GLH in the process, i made a few mistakes with my techs and didn't get any good trade bait, granted by the time i was done, there wasn't much of anything worth trading that the AI's were willing to give up. i think the biggest thing was that i got into the war too late, yet too early. too late because i only got 10 turns of fighting before the end of the round, and too early because I wasn't quite ready, my stack was only half assembled, i didn't have any garrison troops ready to go with it, and my catapults hadn't even been started yet. generally i think i made a mess of it, but i think it could have been worse.



    sis and tmit are both quite right, its not that part of the classical war that is all that difficult to figure out, and thats certainly not what puzzles me. my abilities to amass the units in good time (even through whipping and chopping) tend to be the place where i fall short. i usually do okay in my execution, but i sometimes get to a point where i stagnate and get stopped short even if i'm streaming reinforcements, and i think i need to learn to sue for peace at this point, or start from a stronger position so that i get farther before this, and can move onto the mop up.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. PickledDictator

    PickledDictator Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    117
    Hey Guys.... Long time lurker and indeed very much interested in these games. I am a struggling Monarch player myself and seeing all the detailed reporting and playing is just a brilliant way of learning.

    I would be interested in playing in one of these in the future, right now, I think I would be way to embarrassed to play and post.

    Speaking of posting, I noticed that some of the reports have detailed turn by turn analysis and in multiple colors. Forgive my ignorance, but is their a program which does this automatically?

    How do you guys post so many screen shots and remember which ones are which?

    One more comment, Dave is such a talented player, it's great to see his starts/finishes and everything in between. When you play these series, do you ever take "lessor" starts just to try out a less played option?

    Keep up the great work, consider me subscribed
     
  16. ranion

    ranion Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    go on, pick up a save and play, even if you dont post you'll learn something by comparing what you did to other people, you may even gain confidence in your abilities, perhaps enough to post.

    as for the colours and detail, i used bug mods auto log and then cut out all the unnecessary crap that i puts in. its alot of work to pair it down, but i'm not good enough at taking notes and pictures as i play to do something simpler, i'm going to try and refrain from using the autolog anymore because as you get more and more cities it becomes more and more populated with useless junk.

    as for your comment on the starts we chose, last game they chose a start from vale that was clearly superior and it put them in a position that was clearly a walk. so for this game they (we) specifically chose a save that was less well played, mainly by omitting daves save, to play from. I think the general idea, particularly with the first save, is to pick a save that has alot of potential for several different courses of action to see how different people play different approaches to make for a better learning experience for all.
     
  17. Negator_UK

    Negator_UK King

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    758
    Looks like my install isn't as standard as I'd hoped. Since I want to investigate older ALC/Hof games at the moment it looks like new stuff like this thread is out of bound to me at the moment.

    I'll post a technical query elsewhere to keep this thread clear, thank for the tips.
     
  18. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    OK report ready! I like this game, Hammu is a cool leader, shame he isnt PRO, or those Bowman would be . . . well, broken, LOL.

    Spoiler :

    Turn 100/750 (1500 BC)
    The whip was applied in Akkad
    Babylon grows to size 4
    Akkad finishes: Monument

    Turn 101/750 (1475 BC)
    Akkad begins: Bowman (37 turns)
    Dur-Kurigalzu founded
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Monument (45 turns)
    Tech learned: Pottery

    Turn 102/750 (1450 BC)
    Research begun: Iron Working (25 Turns)

    Turn 104/750 (1400 BC)
    Akkad grows to size 2

    Turn 105/750 (1375 BC)
    Babylon finishes: The Great Wall
    Spoiler :

    Turn 106/750 (1350 BC)
    Great Wall comes in, and I was a little annoyed at myself because I could have SWORN I built a Lighthouse already. Oh well, I can whip into the GLH from it.

    Babylon begins: Lighthouse (5 turns)
    Akkad finishes: Bowman

    Turn 107/750 (1325 BC)
    Akkad begins: Granary (45 turns)
    The whip was applied in Babylon
    Babylon finishes: Lighthouse

    Turn 108/750 (1300 BC)
    Babylon begins: The Great Lighthouse (30 turns)

    Turn 113/750 (1175 BC)
    Akkad grows to size 3

    Turn 114/750 (1150 BC)
    A Farm was built near Akkad

    Turn 115/750 (1125 BC)
    Whip anger has decreased in Akkad
    Akkad's borders expand

    Turn 117/750 (1075 BC)
    Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 2

    Turn 122/750 (950 BC)
    A Camp was built near Akkad
    Babylon begins: Settler (11 turns)

    Turn 123/750 (925 BC)
    Akkad grows to size 4

    Heh, GW is so much fun.
    Spoiler :

    Turn 126/750 (850 BC)
    A Cottage was built near Akkad
    The whip was applied in Akkad
    The whip was applied in Dur-Kurigalzu
    Tech learned: Iron Working
    Akkad finishes: Granary
    Dur-Kurigalzu finishes: Monument

    IW in, I go to Writing, I want to get to CoL ASAP so we can grab some land.

    Turn 127/750 (825 BC)
    Research begun: Writing (11 Turns)
    Akkad begins: Barracks (10 turns)
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Barracks (38 turns)
    Whip anger has decreased in Babylon

    I whip a settler into the GLH, forest chopping has also been used to get this Wonder built ASAP.

    Turn 128/750 (800 BC)
    The whip was applied in Babylon
    Babylon grows to size 3
    Babylon finishes: Settler

    Turn 130/750 (750 BC)
    Dur-Kurigalzu finishes: Barracks

    Turn 131/750 (725 BC)
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Bowman (37 turns)
    Nippur founded
    Nippur begins: Monument (23 turns)

    City to claim the Iron and Wheat is founded, Toku has already grabbed the horses, and I have seen Immortals, so Darius has horses as well. We will need Spearman as well as Axes and Swords. I built Barracks where I could as well. Love those AGG cheap Barracks.

    GLH also comes in this turn:
    Spoiler :

    Turn 132/750 (700 BC)
    Babylon finishes: The Great Lighthouse

    Turn 133/750 (675 BC)
    Babylon begins: Barracks (6 turns)
    Akkad grows to size 4

    Turn 134/750 (650 BC)
    Babylon grows to size 4
    Akkad finishes: Barracks

    Turn 135/750 (625 BC)
    Akkad begins: Worker (12 turns)
    Babylon finishes: Barracks

    Turn 136/750 (600 BC)
    Babylon begins: Worker (6 turns)

    I crank out a few more workers, we have LOTS of unimproved tiles, especially with IW in.

    Turn 137/750 (575 BC)
    Tech learned: Writing

    Turn 138/750 (550 BC)
    Research begun: Polytheism (8 Turns)
    A Cottage was built near Babylon

    Turn 141/750 (485 BC)
    Whip anger has decreased in Akkad
    Whip anger has decreased in Dur-Kurigalzu
    Babylon finishes: Worker
    Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 2
    Dur-Kurigalzu's borders expand
    State Religion Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'

    Turn 142/750 (470 BC)
    A Mine was built near Dur-Kurigalzu
    Babylon begins: Bowman (6 turns)
    The whip was applied in Akkad
    Akkad finishes: Worker

    Turn 143/750 (455 BC)
    Akkad begins: Bowman (37 turns)
    Whip anger has decreased in Babylon

    Turn 144/750 (440 BC)
    Tech learned: Polytheism

    Turn 145/750 (425 BC)
    Research begun: Priesthood (3 Turns)
    A Mine was built near Babylon
    Babylon grows to size 5
    Akkad grows to size 4

    Teching pre-req's for CoL.

    Turn 146/750 (410 BC)
    Babylon finishes: Bowman

    Turn 147/750 (395 BC)
    Babylon begins: Granary (9 turns)
    Bowman promoted: City Garrison I
    Tech learned: Priesthood
    Nippur grows to size 2

    Turn 148/750 (380 BC)
    Research begun: Code of Laws (17 Turns)
    A Mine was built near Nippur
    The whip was applied in Nippur
    A Hamlet was built near Akkad
    Dur-Kurigalzu finishes: Bowman
    Nippur finishes: Monument

    Turn 149/750 (365 BC)
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Library (34 turns)
    Nippur begins: Barracks (7 turns)
    Bowman promoted: City Garrison I
    Akkad finishes: Bowman
    Nippur finishes: Barracks

    Turn 150/750 (350 BC)
    Akkad begins: Library (34 turns)
    Nippur begins: Granary (15 turns)
    Bowman promoted: City Garrison I

    Iron hooked up, so I start some real units. First order of business will be to raze the barb city to our east, and re-settle the 2 spots suggested by hermit, 1E of each of my signs. I want a settler before I take the barbs though, so HC cant sneak one in on me.

    Turn 151/750 (335 BC)
    Babylon begins: Axeman (5 turns)
    Nippur begins: Axeman (9 turns)
    Akkad grows to size 5

    Turn 152/750 (320 BC)
    Babylon grows to size 6

    Turn 154/750 (290 BC)
    A Farm was built near Nippur

    Turn 155/750 (275 BC)
    The whip was applied in Babylon
    Babylon finishes: Axeman
    Hattori Hanzo (Great Spy) born in Babylon
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

    GSpy born in the cap, I settle him. We will have a nice Espionage advantage now, and force the AIs to use their sliders to keep up.

    Turn 156/750 (260 BC)
    Axeman promoted: City Raider I
    Babylon finishes: Granary
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 157/750 (245 BC)
    Babylon begins: Swordsman (6 turns)
    A Farm was built near Akkad
    Whip anger has decreased in Akkad
    Akkad grows to size 6

    I have been sending units toward the barbs to the east, and we opened borders with a few AIs as well. Now, Buddhism spreads to us, and since HC founded it, I take it. CoL will be in soon, and we should get Confu, but I would rather let HC spread religion for us.
    Spoiler :

    Turn 158/750 (230 BC)
    Buddhism has spread: Babylon

    Turn 159/750 (215 BC)
    State Religion Change: MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'
    Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 160/750 (200 BC)
    A Camp was built near Akkad
    A Farm was built near Dur-Kurigalzu
    Buddhism has spread: Akkad

    Turn 161/750 (185 BC)
    The whip was applied in Akkad
    Babylon grows to size 6
    Babylon finishes: Swordsman
    Akkad grows to size 5
    Akkad finishes: Library
    Nippur grows to size 2

    Turn 162/750 (170 BC)
    Babylon begins: Axeman (5 turns)
    Akkad begins: Swordsman (15 turns)
    Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
    Civics Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

    Turn 163/750 (155 BC)
    Whip anger has decreased in Nippur
    Tech learned: Code of Laws
    Confucianism founded in Dur-Kurigalzu
    Confucianism has spread: Dur-Kurigalzu
    CoL comes in, and Confu gets founded in our Gem City, NICE! That will help with culture pressure and as a potential Commerce with those gems. I send the Missionary to our Cap, for another Monastary.
    Spoiler :

    Turn 164/750 (140 BC)
    Research begun: Monarchy (13 Turns)
    Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 3
    Nippur's borders expand

    I go Monarchy next. Happiness is a problem already, the seafood is great, but we are growing fast. Whipping helps, but we need population now, to work tiles. We are also WAY behind in power, so Monarchy will push me to build units to cure the happiness problems.

    Confucianism has spread: Satsuma (Japanese Empire)
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
    Civics Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 165/750 (125 BC)
    Babylon grows to size 7
    Akkad grows to size 6
    State Religion Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'no State Religion' to 'Confucianism'
    Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

    Heh, Confu spreads to Toku even without Open Borders, and he converts immediately. Cool, more shrine gold for us (if we get a Shrine, that is). It gives us negative diplo with him, but who cares, its looking more and more like he will be our first target, probably at Trebs-Maces, which is WAY off, but worth thinking about.

    Turn 166/750 (110 BC)
    Babylon finishes: Axeman

    Turn 167/750 (95 BC)
    Babylon begins: Library (10 turns)
    Axeman promoted: City Raider I
    Babylon begins: Settler (8 turns)
    Confucianism has spread: Kagoshima (Japanese Empire)

    Turn 168/750 (80 BC)
    Confucianism has spread: Babylon
    Nippur finishes: Granary
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
    Attitude Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    KK picks up Buddhism as well, so we now have a strong block of Buddhists. I am not interested in attacking HC until he builds the AP for us, heh. I do like the fact that we can feel secure at our rear flank if trouble appears from the NW or SW.

    Turn 169/750 (65 BC)
    Nippur begins: Courthouse (13 turns)
    A Mine was built near Dur-Kurigalzu

    Turn 170/750 (50 BC)
    Whip anger has decreased in Babylon
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Turn 171/750 (35 BC)
    The whip was applied in Babylon
    Babylon's borders expand
    Babylon finishes: Settler
    Akkad finishes: Swordsman
    Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

    Turn 172/750 (20 BC)
    Babylon begins: Worker (5 turns)
    Akkad begins: Courthouse (15 turns)
    Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
    Babylon begins: Settler (9 turns)
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

    Courthouses going up, which is helping our gold situation. Love that ORG trait. I also finally have a settler on the way to the Barb City area to the East, and another building, so its time. A Sword and 3 Axes should be able to handle the 2 Archers there, even though one managed to get CG II, probably from HC.

    Turn 173/750 (5 BC)
    A Mine was built near Nippur
    While attacking, Swordsman decimates Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 65.4%)
    While attacking in Barbarian territory at Burgundian, Swordsman (1.68/6) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 65.4%)
    While attacking, Axeman escapes from Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 66.7%)
    While attacking in Barbarian territory at Burgundian, Axeman loses to Barbarian Archer (1.11/3) (Prob Victory: 66.7%)
    While attacking, Axeman decimates Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
    While attacking in Barbarian territory at Burgundian, Axeman (5.00/5) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
    Captured Burgundian (Barbarian)
    Razed Burgundian
    Burgundian lost
    Nippur grows to size 3
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Lost 1 Axe, not bad, settler will grab the spot 1E of the Iron, and 2nd settler will grab the spot 1W of the Sheep.

    Turn 174/750 (10 AD)
    Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
    Tech learned: Monarchy
    Attitude Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

    Monarchy in, so I go to Compass. Harbors are nice.

    Turn 175/750 (25 AD)
    Research begun: Compass (867 Turns)
    Confucianism has spread: Beshbalik (Mongolian Empire)
    Civics Change: MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 176/750 (40 AD)
    Borsippa founded
    Borsippa begins: Work Boat (23 turns)
    Whip anger has decreased in Akkad
    Akkad's borders expand
    Confucianism has spread: Tokyo (Japanese Empire)

    Turn 177/750 (55 AD)
    Babylon finishes: Settler

    Turn 178/750 (70 AD)
    Babylon begins: Library (17 turns)
    Borsippa begins: Monument (23 turns)
    The whip was applied in Akkad
    The whip was applied in Dur-Kurigalzu
    The whip was applied in Nippur
    Akkad finishes: Courthouse
    Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 3
    Dur-Kurigalzu finishes: Library
    Nippur finishes: Courthouse

    Turn 179/750 (85 AD)
    Akkad begins: Lighthouse (8 turns)
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Granary (23 turns)
    Nippur begins: Library (20 turns)
    Babylon grows to size 6
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

    Turn 180/750 (100 AD)
    Sippar founded
    Sippar begins: Monument (45 turns)
    Akkad grows to size 6
    Buddhism has spread: Nippur
    Civics Change: Darius I(Persia) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 181/750 (115 AD)
    A Cottage was built near Akkad
    Nippur grows to size 3
    Buddhism has spread: Borsippa
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 182/750 (130 AD)
    A Cottage was built near Babylon
    Babylon begins: Settler (9 turns)
    Akkad finishes: Lighthouse
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Turn 183/750 (145 AD)
    Akkad begins: Spearman (9 turns)
    Confucianism has spread: Sippar

    Turn 184/750 (160 AD)
    Confucianism has spread: Karakorum (Mongolian Empire)

    Turn 185/750 (175 AD)
    A Pasture was built near Sippar

    Turn 186/750 (190 AD)
    Whip anger has decreased in Babylon
    Tech learned: Compass
    Akkad grows to size 7
    Confucianism has spread: Kyoto (Japanese Empire)
    State Religion Change: Darius I(Persia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
    Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Darius I(Persia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Darius goes Buddhist as well. Now Toku looks like he will be dogpiled eventually. Good news for us, since we are close enough to mop up and claim cities, and let the AIs butt heads with their units.

    I go to Aesthetics, because I want the HE and GL. I like the GL, and Aesth is a good trading tech.

    Turn 187/750 (205 AD)
    Research begun: Aesthetics (6 Turns)
    A Cottage was built near Akkad
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 188/750 (220 AD)
    Sippar grows to size 2
    Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

    Turn 189/750 (235 AD)
    The whip was applied in Sippar
    Nippur finishes: Library
    Sippar finishes: Monument

    Turn 190/750 (250 AD)
    Nippur begins: Spearman (5 turns)
    Sippar begins: Barracks (38 turns)
    A Pasture was built near Sippar
    The whip was applied in Babylon
    Babylon finishes: Settler
    Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 4
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Turn 191/750 (265 AD)
    A Mine was built near Borsippa
    Babylon grows to size 6
    Akkad finishes: Spearman

    Christianity founded in a distant land
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

    Christianity FIADL, I hope it was HC, so he builds the AP for us as Buddhist. I do notice that HC has Alphabet now, so I start some trades, first, I trade CoL to HC for Alphabet, and then I do a series of sweet deals:
    Spoiler :



    Turn 192/750 (280 AD)
    Akkad begins: Harbor (20 turns)
    Tech learned: Alphabet
    Tech learned: Mathematics
    Tech learned: Meditation
    Tech learned: Monotheism
    Civics Change: MC3 Bleys Rd2(Babylon) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
    Civics Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Nice, I revolt to OR right away, I want that bonus, every city needs buildings. Construction will be awesome too, we may even be able to grab a couple cities off Toku before Engineering, now.

    Turn 193/750 (295 AD)
    Tech learned: Construction
    Whip anger has decreased in Akkad
    Whip anger has decreased in Dur-Kurigalzu
    Whip anger has decreased in Nippur
    Tech learned: Aesthetics
    Babylon finishes: Library
    Akkad grows to size 8
    Borsippa grows to size 2

    Turn 194/750 (310 AD)
    Research begun: Literature (4 Turns)
    Babylon begins: Spearman (5 turns)
    Confucianism has spread: Sardis (Persian Empire)

    Turn 195/750 (325 AD)
    A Mine was built near Babylon
    The whip was applied in Borsippa
    Dur-Kurigalzu finishes: Granary
    Nippur finishes: Spearman
    Borsippa finishes: Monument

    Turn 196/750 (340 AD)
    Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Bowman (5 turns)
    Nippur begins: Bowman (4 turns)
    Borsippa's borders expand
    Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 197/750 (355 AD)
    Opis founded
    Opis begins: Monument (23 turns)
    A Farm was built near Babylon
    A Mine was built near Borsippa
    Tech learned: Literature
    A Village was built near Akkad
    Borsippa finishes: Work Boat
    Confucianism has spread: Turfan (Mongolian Empire)

    Lit is in, so the GL is open. Soon . . . soon, no real hurry, I dont think any AI even has Aesth yet. Currency is next, get that economy even more solid. Right now we have a strong tech rate and its getting stronger and stronger. We can afford some REXing.

    I do make one "flyer" move here, and settler this city:
    Spoiler :

    Planty of food, gold in 2nd ring, and note the barb city to the SE. Thats my next target, and I am building bowman all around so I can send my Sword/Axe garrisons toward this barb city. I will keep it if it has 2 pop, since its not a horrible spot. My original sign was on the grassland there, but the Plains hill will work out, and while it has a TON of unusable and weak tiles (mountains and ocean) it wont be horrible, it is coastal (GLH bonuses) etc.

    Turn 198/750 (370 AD)
    Research begun: Currency (9 Turns)
    Borsippa begins: Granary (15 turns)
    Babylon grows to size 7
    Sippar grows to size 2

    Turn 199/750 (385 AD)
    A Fishing Boats was built near Borsippa
    Babylon finishes: Spearman
    Nippur finishes: Bowman

    Turn 200/750 (400 AD)
    Babylon begins: Harbor (12 turns)
    Nippur begins: Bowman (4 turns)
    Bowman promoted: City Garrison I

    And that ends my set. Here are some screenies of various areas of interest:
    Spoiler :





    Pros-
    Decent economy, 80ish BPT, tech parity, with lots of potential
    Military not poor, not great, but not poor. Some spears and Swords
    7 reasonable cities, Cap looking strong.
    GL open to be built
    Confu founded, if we can get a Shrine, we will easily out-culture Toku in the Gem area.
    Solid diplomatic relations with 3 of the 4 known AIs

    Cons-
    Still not the best military.
    Many cities just online, need buildings
    Toku not happy at all, might DoW
    Almost out of gold again

    All in all I am pleased with the save. I think this is a very workable position from which we can power-tech soon and still get a big military ready to take Toku, and even HC once he builds some more Wonders for us.

     

    Attached Files:

  19. ranion

    ranion Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    bleys, nice round

    Spoiler :
    you did that the way i feel like i should have. your trading and brokering puts you in a great position with alot of good tech and your focus on domestics, while leaving you a little vulnerable in terms of military means you have a good empire and can whip out an army right quick incase the worst happens. a good thing to do would be to grab hbr from hc if he's willing to give it up for what you have, then you could field some pachyderms for war. you have a really good save for war or peace, lots of long term options. much better than my frustrated mess of a save.
     
  20. rddc05

    rddc05 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    292
    Location:
    Florida
    Hi guys. I just got back into Civ after getting BtS and saw this game. Looks fun, hope you don't mind if I jump in with a shot at this round:

    Spoiler :


    Finished GL->Settler-->GLH
    Founded Gems City and Iron City, prepped for war with Toku
    Researched CoL, founded Confucianism

    Razed three of Toku's cities, but Kyoto was a bridge too far. He has another iron and horse source up there, since I took out both in the south but the chariots/swords/axes kept coming. Settled GG in capital.

    Settled a great spy in Tiwaniku and stole construction and currency from HC. Should be able to get Monotheism with the spy right outside Babylon in about 5 turns (or HBR). After the current round of buildings, perhaps gear up to take Kyoto?

    I founded the NW city to squeeze Toku, but it is kind of a trash city, no food. I wish I had founded at the Gold site that Bleys used.

    Here are screenies:















    Pros:
    GSpy is infiltrated with Techhound Huayna
    Toku is disabled and backward, long way from Feudalism methinks
    Tech Parity, if not all out lead
    Solid Economy and Infrastructure (dyes and sugar are in)

    Cons:
    Junk city in the NW
    Mediocre military
    Little additional exploration
    All neighbors are buddhists (never spread to any of my cities)

    Save is attached below.

    Edit: Looking at Bleys' save, I can see a lot of good ideas that I didn't go for, like going for compass, and taking the barb city to the east. I'm also thinking I'm not adequately prepared in the north if/when Toku comes knocking. All in all, a good and fun learning experience.



    That was extremely fun, look forward to seeing the other saves.
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page