Since this mod doubles the tech tree, how long should a Standard game last? (Normally 500 turns)

  • 2x as long (1000 turns)

    Votes: 26 61.9%
  • 1.75x as long (875 turns)

    Votes: 7 16.7%
  • 1.5x as long (750 turns)

    Votes: 6 14.3%
  • 1.25x as long (630 turns)

    Votes: 3 7.1%

  • Total voters
    42

TheOneHitPupper

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
97
Maybe we can make that second Settler drastically more expensive to get? I actually wouldn't mind if the early game is mostly single city since it doesn't make sense to have even a second settlement until Agriculture starts becoming a real thing. This will also make it possible to keep Natural Wonders in the game since no one can take advantage of them except maybe city states...

The more I think about it, the less I like about the culture from Tree of Life. That culture can be used to expand borders naturally and I'd personally would rather see the expansion kept to a minimum until Ancient Era or so. In addition, is there a reason why we have gold production early game? What's producing the gold and, with units and buildings all maintenance free, it seems silly to have it.
I do think borders need to be able to expand in the early game, else the Prehistoric Eras will be too uneventful. I will look into increasing the Culture costs of expanding tiles though. Gold also provides another avenue of choice and to take it away would make the early-game more stale in my opinion. I think I will probably remove the second Settler though.

Supply for player extremely low, trying to hold AI, I had 11 units (Hero & Giant included) supply was 8, so I got penalty, still I was last in techs & military
Definitely planning to increase unit supply in the next update.
 

AndreyK

King
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
638
Location
Yakutsk, Russia
Is it possible to edit duration of turns? Standard speed on turn 221 I am in 7522BC, turns take 8 years, I took Authority and killing lots of barbs, getting culture&science. Have 20 techs, most AI have same, Babylon has 23. Looks like in 100-120 turns will get all pre-Ancient techs, so it will be around 6650BC I'll get to Ancient Era and will have 200+ turns before 4000BC. I'm afraid by that time I'll be close to Medieval, and Babylon much sooner.
Also, balance-wise, I think turns shall have much more length, so time-table will be more accurate.
In beginning, game is interesting and you have to make choices what to build and when, then, starting by middle of Mesolithic Era you have no choice but build and destroy military units.
In general game feels much slower in normal than base VP in marathon from middle of Mesolithic.
I think that number of turns could be cut by 1/3 in Mesolithic and at least by 1/2 in Neolithic, or there should be redesign, adding more techs (or costs to techs) new buildings or whatever. It's takes too long, I just wait till I hit Ancient, and then I think by this game pace it will be possible to get to Future Era by 1AD, especially for Babylon (now without Old Faithful).
 

AndreyK

King
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
638
Location
Yakutsk, Russia
In addition, we have 2 religion and 7 pantheons - looks very early. Also AI don't use priestesses for religious spread, so I will spread religion much faster and reform early, even if they found & enhance before me. In previous game we both enhanced before 6000BC and had 5 or all 6 religion founded.
 

AndreyK

King
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
638
Location
Yakutsk, Russia
I didn't meet many AI yet, 3 last game and 3 this game, have to say that something wrong with Babylon - it gets runaway before rest of us reach Ancient. By turn 273 in 7106BC I and 2 other AI have 2-3 policies and 21-23 techs, Babylon has 7 policies and 33 techs and keeps getting away
 

AndreyK

King
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
638
Location
Yakutsk, Russia
Workers are now very cheap as you have more production and lots of gold in beginning of Ancient, also they work very quick my turns now still 8 years long. I have connected 3 cities and will connect 2 more in 8-10 turns
By turn 307, in 6834BC 2 AI have 2 cities still, Indonesia (me) 6 cities, Ethiopia 6, Babylon 7 - and only stopped because he got no more space - ocean and me+Ethiopia
 

AndreyK

King
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
638
Location
Yakutsk, Russia
Sorry, I just deleted all saves, cleaned cash, cleaned everything, reinstalled VP. Think I will retry the mod if number of turns will be decreased in pre-Ancient Eras and some rebalancing done.
 

myles718

Chieftain
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
68
Runtime Error: C:\Users\Myles\Desktop\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\MoreTech (v5)\MoreTech\Lua/FutureLua.lua:235: attempt to call global 'GetCityMapDatas' (a nil value)
 

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anastazjasz

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
46
Boi that is awesome, huge project and it seems like I have to drop my cautiously made mod-mods collection for my VP (I have more then 25 mod-mods currently installed on top of VP atm to enchant my game and all are working as intended, finished 10+ games with them) Vp is great as a base but I love longer games so even small balance issues are not a big problem, if u can have future era techs :0 e.g. playing with civics and reforms mod is messing up the religion spread cos of blockade from Theocracy.

I wish u best of luck with the project and don't bother with compatibility for now, make it stable and balanced which is obviously huge work.
Anyway I'm gonna test it slowly with some of the mods I have installed and see how much mess its gonna create (I have 10 more days of quarantine). Cheers and gl.
 
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t10451379

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
2
Great mod, love the eras so far. I was playing Rome at level difficulty (not very good at the game and when I am trying a new complex mod that's what I play). In the first era I had the problem where I had built everything and could only create units which took ~3 turns each. I was at the point where I was spamming out units and deleting them because of the supply cap. Don't know if that was intentional or maybe I was just playing badly.
The biggest issue is with capitulation not being activated when I entered the medieval era. The game simply would let me select the option on the diplo screen and it said that I had to wait until the medieval era.
Otherwise, great mod, keep it up.
 

TheOneHitPupper

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
97
Alpha 6 released. Sorry for the delay. This is a major update. Lots of tweaks/changes. Addressed early Military Supply Cap problems. Hopefully all scaling by era bonuses are balanced. Tweaked the starting bonuses and gamespeeds as well so hopefully they make a little more sense now. AI handicaps are reduced, so the difficulty should be more balanced.

I've introduced a new game mechanic with how you obtain Laborer units in the early-game. Until you start the Renaissance Era, there's a 20% chance to capture enemy units and convert them into Laborer units for your empire. I've also implemented Wildlife Reborn into the mod which will allow you to hunt for extra :c5food: Food yields for your early settlements, at the cost of barbarian animal units being incredibly strong and fast. In addition, most units in the Paleolithic and Mesolithic have had their movement reduced to 1, so early-game scouting is substantially more difficult. Get the update from the original DL link or from here.

Code:
Leaders
    - Venice no longer starts with Venetian Merchant
    - Barbarians no longer build Obsidian Archers
    - Venice gets free Venetian Merchant at Currency
General
    - Removed some redundant code
    - Fixed some resource reveals
    - Reclassed bonus resources
    - Fixed some Civilopedia entries
    - Fixed some missing Future Eras Civilopedia entries
    - Increased cost of first Border Growth tile acquisition
    - Removed LeeS Unit Spawn Handle script (couldn't get to work)
    - 20% chance to capture enemy units until the Renaissance era to make them into Laborers
    - Reduced CS quest rewards
    - Tweaked gamespeeds
    - Reduced early-game AI bonuses
    - Tweaked difficulty AI bonuses
    - Increased beginning City Defense
    - Incorporated Slavery Mod by Mk Z
    - Barbarians are limited to Wildlife units until the Neolithic/Ancient Era
    - Adjusted Warmonger percentages by era
    - Reduced first Policy cost
    - Cities cannot bombard until they construct Walls
    - Increased ConstructPercent / TrainPercent for gamespeeds
Tech
    - Redid all Tech costs (reason update took so long)
    - Converted XML generator to use Standard gamespeed as base
    - Gathering now a prereq to Hunting
    - Art now a prereq to Trapping
    - Slowed growth rate through Paleolithic to Ancient eras
    - Adjusted Tech AI flavors
    - Increased Research percentages for Paleolithic through Neolithic
    - Harmony leads to Warfare
    - Harmony leads to Leadership
    - Ropemaking leads to The Wheel
    - Warfare leads to Painting
    - Trading leads to Mining
    - Music leads to Agriculture
    - Painting leads to Religion
    - Painting leads to Agriculture
    - Added starting minor defense units by era
    - Changed starting units by era
    - Trapping leads to Military Theory
    - Mining leads to Construction
    - Archery leads to Copper Forging
    - Scouting leads to Archery
    - Vassalage unlocked at Medieval Era
    - Fixed missing Copper Forging 256x icon
    - Removed AI free techs
Buildings
    - Increased Video Rental building GPP output towards a Great Director
    - Video Rental building provides -1 unhappiness from Urbanization
    - Changed Entertainment Server building culture output to a modifier
    - VR Cafe building produces -1 unhappiness from Boredom
    - Milling Center building requires Factory
    - Fixed Airbase building requires Airport
    - Aerospace Complex building requires Airbase
    - Aerospace Complex increases Air Capacity to 15
    - Halved Cathedral building scaling Gold bonus
    - Reduced Order building scaling Faith bonus
    - Reduced Ornate Cathedral building scaling Gold bonus
    - Reduced Teutonic Chapter building scaling Gold bonus
    - Reduced Council building scaling Science bonus
    - Reduced Colosseum building scaling Golden Age Points, GG/GA bonuses
    - Reduced Runestone building scaling Gold bonus
    - Reduced Police Station building scaling Science and Culture bonuses
    - Removed free Prehistoric Settler from Tribal Campfire
    - Reduced cost from Tribal Campfire
    - Renamed Tribe's Campfire to Tribal Campfire
    - Reduced Gold output from Tribal Campfire
    - Increases Military supply cap from Tribal Campfire
    - Adjusted AI flavors on Tribal Campfire
    - Food Storage building increases Military supply cap
    - Raised Food Storage building cost
    - Tribe's Meeting Place provides +1 unit supply cap
    - Courthouse now drops 2 Slave resources
    - Removed Gold output from Tree of Life
    - Tree of Life outputs 3 Science
    - Tree of Life outputs 1 Production
    - Causeway moved to Tool Specialization
    - Reduced Slave Auction's Gold output
    - Removed Slave Auction's Happiness AI flavor
    - Removed Slave Auction Policy Happiness modifiers
    - Removed Slave Market Policy Happiness modifiers
    - Added Passage Grave building
    - Added Reservoir building
    - Removed National ID's Policy Happiness / Culture modifiers
    - Made National ID building exclusive to the Order and Autocracy ideologies
    - Added Wooden Huts building
    - Lectern provides additional Science
    - Lectern no longer provides Production
    - Increase defense from Lectern
    - Fire Pit requires animal resources
    - Fire Pit provides Science
    - Monument provides +2 Culture and +1 Science
    - Changed Border Charter obsolete tech to Navigation
    - Removed Boundary Markers' border growth points bonus
    - Reduced Boundary Markers' border growth bonus
    - Added Title Deed building
    - Totems require appopriate nearby resources
    - Haleness Totem lowers global needs modifier by 15%
    - Spiritual Humanism Totem provides +1 Happiness for every 3 Citizens in capital
    - Council outputs 2 Science
    - Hunters' Hut bonus increased
    - Reduced Totem of the Goddess' Food bonus
    - Chieftain's Hut no longer provides Happiness / Gold
    - Reduced Chieftain's Hut cost
    - Reduced Shaman's Circle cost
    - Reduced Heros' Hut cost
    - Tribal Campfire no longer yields Happiness
    - Increased Stone Shelter cost
Wonders
    - Fixed Browning Arms Company civilopedia entries
    - Hotel de Toulouse must be built on Flat terrain
    - Silicon Valley must be built on Flat terrain
    - The Apollo Program has 2 Science specialist slots
    - Wonderwerk Cave gives +1 movement to Laborers
    - Reduced Broadway's scaling Culture bonus
    - Reduced Great Pyramid's scaling Golden Age Points bonus
    - Menin Gate provides scaling Golden Age Points bonus
    - Reduced Prora's scaling Culture bonus
    - Reduced Rockefeller Center's scaling Culture bonus
    - Reduced Terracotta Army's scaling Culture bonus
    - Reduced University of Sankore's scaling Science bonus
National Wonders
    - Hero's Hut provides +1 unit supply cap
    - Shaman's Circle provides +1 unit supply cap
    - Reduced Internal Defense Mechanism's scaling Science bonus
    - Reduced Mausoleum's scaling Faith bonus
    - Reduced National Intelligence Agency's scaling Science and Gold bonuses
    - Reduced National Monument's scaling Golden Age Points and Culture bonuses
    - Reduced Oxford University's scaling Culture bonus
    - Reduced White Tower's scaling Science and Gold bonuses
Religion
    - Reduced Bran, the Sleeping Guardian belief's scaling Culture bonus
    - Reduced Epona, the Great Mare belief's scaling bonuses
    - Reduced God of the Expanse belief's scaling Faith and Production bonuses
    - Reduced Goddess of the Home belief's scaling Food and Faith bonuses
    - Reduced Morrigan, the Harbinger belief's scaling bonuses
    - Reduced Hero Worship founder belief's scaling bonuses
    - Reduced Way of Transcendance founder belief's scaling bonuses
    - Reduced Cooperation follower belief's scaling bonuses
    - Reduced Crusader Spirit reformation belief's scaling bonuses
    - Reduced Divine Teachings reformation belief's scaling bonuses
    - Reduced Global Commandments reformation belief's scaling bonuses
    - Raised first Pantheon cost
    - Raised first Prophet cost
    - Raised first Faith Great Person cost
Units
    - Reduced Autochthon movement to 1
    - Autochthon upgrades to Hunter
    - Autochthon gains XP from recon
    - Made Autochthon weaker
    - Reduced Firecaster units movement
    - Caveman movement reduced
    - Savage units movement reduced
    - Laborer moved to Complex Tools
    - Great Hero movement reduced
    - Giant movement reduced
    - Added missing Priestess AI flavor
    - Added missing Shaman AI flavor
    - Hunter movement reduced
    - Reduced Hunter strength
    - Laborer works slower than Worker
    - Incorporated Wildlife Reborn by LeeS & Xarsus (removed all Dinosaur units)
    - Incorporated Mammoth Unit mod by Deliverator
    - Lion obsoletes at Trapping
    - Removed Kon Tiki Raft Naval AI flavor (AI building too many)
    - Increased Obsidian Archer AI flavors
    - Reduced Primitive Archer AI flavor
    - Boosted Primitive Archer strength
    - Great Hero ranged strength reduced
    - Great Hero strength reduced
    - Shaman strength increased
    - Increased Hunter strength
    - Reduced Hunter AI flavor
    - Increased Warrior strength
    - Decreased Savage strength
    - Primitive Archer movement reduced
    - Primitive Archer cost increased
    - Reduced Caveman AI flavors
    - Autochthon goody hut changed to Hunter
    - Reduced Autochthon AI flavor
    - Barbarians can no longer build Prehistoric Settlers
    - Naval/Air/Hover units no longer capable of being captured as slaves
Improvements
    - Outpost no longer works on Stone
    - Outpost cost reduced
    - Outpost expanded to work on more animal resources
    - Fixed prereq techs for Outpost
    - Fixed missing artdefs for Outpost
    - Laborers can now build Pontoon Bridges
 
Last edited:

AndreyK

King
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
638
Location
Yakutsk, Russia
Hunter strength was a little bit too high already, they are very good units against any barbarians and they upgrade to pathfinder which is weaker.
Tree of Life outputs 3 science, lectern and fire pit, monument provides science, council gives 2 science and reduced first policy costs? Gaining techs and policies was much too quick in previous version.
 

TheOneHitPupper

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
97
Hunter strength was a little bit too high already, they are very good units against any barbarians and they upgrade to pathfinder which is weaker.
Tree of Life outputs 3 science, lectern and fire pit, monument provides science, council gives 2 science and reduced first policy costs? Gaining techs and policies was much too quick in previous version.
Will nerf Hunter a bit, but will likely leave Hunter to be stronger than Pathfinder on account that the Pathfinder is exclusively a Recon unit with faster movement than the Hunter.

The initial Policy cost is set to 500 for Standard. Should take you until the late Neolithic or Ancient Era to get your first Social Policy. As far as Techs go, I'm aiming for a game to last ~420 turns on Quick, ~630 on Standard, ~950 on Epic, and ~1900 on Marathon. Sped up techs are necessary so that you aren't spending 100 turns on the Mesolithic Era on Standard.
 

thothenki

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
97
Thank you so much for working on this mod! It's something I've been daydreaming about for years and looks great! I hate to add to your work, but...is there someway to use the More Wonders for VP mod that Adan Eslavo is working on instead of Vox Populi Wonder Expanded? He's done a lot of good work & I've grown accustom to it. Keep up the good work and thanks again!
 

danymatrix

Warlord
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
138
Thank you so much for working on this mod! It's something I've been daydreaming about for years and looks great! I hate to add to your work, but...is there someway to use the More Wonders for VP mod that Adan Eslavo is working on instead of Vox Populi Wonder Expanded? He's done a lot of good work & I've grown accustom to it. Keep up the good work and thanks again!
I was thinking exactly the same
 
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