MSTK1 - Monarch (Training?) Game

Thanks Whomp, didn't know that, this is the first time I'm down to zero :(

I don't think that we need to lower any sliders as we are at +3 gpt now, that is an old picture :)

I counted on that Green dot city to go into +gpt again after I paid tribute to Inca, but those nasty French made it impossible :( After that didn't pay attention and we have one scout less :(
 
I need to quit doing city placement.

Philly should produce nothing but military. BOston nothing but settlers/workers and the occasional warrior.

The other fly in our ointment is that the Dutch built in our elephant graveyard.

Boston is about to riot so turn the lux slider up before anything else and change the barracks to a settler.

Chop a forest at Washington to get the barracks sooner then add the worker. The worker digging a mine at Washington might be better employed chopping the forest or even irrigating the plains. Irrigated and roaded riverside plains deliver 2f1s2g and take less time to develop than mined grassland.

Rule of thumb: Towns should stay at pop4 when a settler finishes, especially the capitol. Anything else loses too much commerce. Obviously needs adjustment based on circumstances.

The trades you did were OK Mel, as we now know the location of Iron. However I would probably have delayed as we don't really need swordsmen and can't build them in a reasonable time anyway. Worker turns need focus so that Philly gets to 5 (warriors, archers) then six spt (swordsmen), Washington to 5 and then 6 (warriors then swords) , Boston 5 at pop4 to 7 at pop 6 to 7(workers/warriors/settlers). Develop riverside tiles first

The settler should go 1SW of where he satnds and build there. It will be a tundra limtied fishing village but will hold the silks
 
Looking good. We still have 3 lux available to us. Silk and Gems should be safe but we may need to hurry to get the Ivory.

As Bede says we should change Boston to settler in 1 (hire a clown for that turn). I suggest we send him to Atlanta. Meanwhile change Philly to spearman in 1 and send him as an advance guard to the mountain just west of Atlanta. If there is no sign of another Dutch settler I suggest 3 hex NW from there, on the coast, for our next town. Am I right in thinking that would put the Ivory in our territory?

Hopefully this will also block off the Dutch from expanding in our direction. Nice of them to place The Hague exactly where we were going to build. That means when we capture the town we won't need to move it.
 
dalgo said:
Meanwhile change Philly to spearman in 1 and send him as an advance guard to the mountain just west of Atlanta. If there is no sign of another Dutch settler I suggest 3 hex NW from there, on the coast, for our next town. Am I right in thinking that would put the Ivory in our territory?

Hopefully this will also block off the Dutch from expanding in our direction. Nice of them to place The Hague exactly where we were going to build. That means when we capture the town we won't need to move it.

Nice planning to capture the ivory to NW, but, we don't need no steekin' spears, ever. Archers and warriors - warriors upgrade, archers kill things.
 
Sorry, I've been busy as of late :(
Here goes nothing...


Preturn
Change Boston from building Barracks to Settler, without wasting shields.
Production will over-run, so I change two laborers to a tax collectors. This also solves the Riot problem.
Adjust Science Slider to 80%.
Change Philadelphia from building Granary to Archer, without wasting shields.
Production will over-run, so I change one worker to a tax collector.
England wants Iron Working for The Weel. I don't budge.

Turn 1
Philadelphia Archer -> Warrior
Boston Settler -> Worker
We are in negative gold, so I adjust Science slider down.
Chicago founded on southern silks. Starts on Warrior. Queue Temple, to expand towards north silks.

Turn 2
Workers moving to the forest south of Washington to cut.
Worker starts roading Iron.

Turn 3
Boston Worker -> Settler
We're getting 0 GPT, so I adjust science down some more.

Turn 4
Philadelphia Warrior -> Archer.
English start Collosus.
Seattle founded between southern cattle and river. Start on Warrior.

Turn 5
Forest is to be chopped in next turn...
We are now at +4 GPT.
Washington to grow next turn.

Turn 6
FOrest chopped
Washington Barracks -> Settler

Turn 7
Scouts clear out some black areas. Otherwise, ZZZzz...

Turn 8
Iron is connected.
Philadelphia Archer -> Swordsman
Code of Laws will overrun production. Adjust slider to 30% to minimalize waste.

Turn 9
Boston Settler -> Settler
Seatle Warrior -> Worker
Code of Laws researched.

mstk19zn.jpg

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I stopped my turn in order to decide which tech to reasearch next, and to decide the position of the next settler.

Any thoughts?

(Sorry if I didn't play very well :()
 
I am still in favor of getting New York online, especially since we've effectively run out of good city locations unless we want to try and culture-war Rheims.

If the AI doesn't have or just recently got Writing I see no reason not to run full steam towards Philosophy and snag Republic as the free tech. If we can make Philo in 20 turns at 30% it should be way less at 80% - 100%.
 
I agree, go for Philosophy at the max rate we can afford, even if it means negative gpt. We want to get out of despotism asap and that is probably the fastest route. Does anyone else have CoL? We can probably choose between The Republic and Monarchy (by trading for Polytheism before we get Philosophy). However I would prefer Republic to reduce the number of periods of anarchy. I played a game recently where I drew 8 turns, 9 turns then 8 turns again for three changes of government. That's a lot of anarchy!

As for the settler, I still think we should grab that NW ivory (see previous posts).
 
Crank up the science to 100% if you can. Don't worry about cash in the treasury as technology sales should finance the deficit.

Washington and Boston should be kept at pop4 minimum. Never drop to two or three as the cost in commerce is just too great.
 
I really think we should be sending memos as notifications. Sorry for the delay, got it, will play shortly.
 
Since we're one turn off I'll play 11 turns...

TURNLOG:
Turn 01 / 1525 BC - Change Luxuries from 10% to 0% - no need for them currently. Change Research from 30% to 90%, running at -2 GPT, Philosophy due in 9 turns. Notice a Goody Hut due South of Chicago - dispatch a Warrior from Boston to go pop it. Since I suffered a power failure while doing this turn the first time I know Workers in Washington are on automated move - do not do this please. Also, having workers work individually is just a waste of time, especially when we're Industrious and paired workers can complete a road a turn. A check of the Wonder screen shows both the English and Dutch working on the Colossus - it seems highly unlikely we could get it in time at this point, which really sort of irks me as with New York being costal, with a river, and having two gold hills, it was a perfect massive commerce site - kinda ticks me off as I think it would have helped us more than a fairly slow to develop town like Seattle. Based on city size difference I say the Dutch will get it. Not happy with this at all - that city could seriously have been a commercial monster.

Dispatch the Settler in Boston there for reasons I'll explain shortly. Move Scouts around. Considering there's an Ivory source right outside Atlanta I see no reason to send a Settler way off to the East of Philadelphia to get Ivory, especially when Atlanta is relatively food and shield poor and will remain so without Worker assistance, when there are better things they could be doing. Switch the Granary to a Temple to snag the Game and the Ivory. No clue why Chicago is working on a Swordsman when it has no Barracks and no Shields - switch to a Worker. Diplo shows we're down The Wheel but nothing else - not worth trading for at this time. I think Bede has a point about the cities not dipping below a certain population level and so Washington is switched to a Swordsman. IBT French want to trade Writing for the Wheel - rebuffed.
Turn 02 / 1500 BC - Switch Boston to a Barracks as we have no high priority city sites at this juncture, IMO, and going to a Settler too early would reduce its size too much. As GPT costs are down to -1 GPT, set Research at 100%, Philosophy due in 7 turns at -4 GPT. IBT Tours is founded at the Ivory gathering East of Phily - we never would've made it there anyway.
Turn 03 / 1475 BC - Goody Hut gives a Conscript Warrior, weak. Notice there's an irrigated BG by Washington, unroaded, and an unroaded mine - big waste of turns to work on a tile and not road it... irrigating grassland is also worthless during Despotism. I'd rather have this shields adding up and redo it later than a worthless improvement that only becomes useful later. Put Washington on another Swordsman - we're going to need to do some pointy-stick "diplomacy" later anyway.
Turn 04 / 1450 BC - Unit movement.
Turn 05 / 1425 BC - New York founded, already hooked up to trade network. Put Chicago on a Barracks to try and churn some units - it can't do much right now anyway. I really don't like its positioning and if I have any say it'll get abandoned once Rheims is history. Sacrifice the Conscript Warrior and chop a Forest to speed up construction there. IBT the English offer The Wheel for Iron Working and 14 Gold. I tell Elizabeth to sod off.
Turn 06 / 1400 BC - Unit movement. Put New York on a Barracks since we lack any commercial options.
Turn 07 / 1375 BC - Chop another forest near Chicago. Washington finishes another Swordsman, switch to Settler. Set Research at 50% without reducing Philosophy time, going to make 10 GPT. IBT we learn Philosophy and get The Republic as our free tech. Set Research at 90% for Mathematics, due in 9 turns at -1 GPT - Statue of Zeus will be our lord and savior. Opt not to revolt just yet.
Turn 08 / 1350 BC - Boston starts on a perfectly timed Settler that will bring it to 4 Pop. Washington goes back to Swordsman to round off and not sink below 4 Pop once the Settler completes. Switch New York to the Mausoleum of Mausollos as a prebuild for the Statue of Zeus. Set Luxuries at 10%, Research at 90% - move Warrior from Chicago to Boston, Warrior from Philadelphia to Washington so can lower Lux to 0% next turn.
Turn 09 / 1325 BC - Set Luxuries at 0%, Research at 100%, Mathematics due in 8 at -2 GPT. Begin moving Scouts home for disbandment as we know pretty much the enitre continent's disposition. IBT Washington completes its Swordsman and starts a perfectly timed Settler to bring it to 4 Pop.
Turn 10 / 1300 BC - Unit movement.
Turn 11 / 1275 BC - Unit movement. Ivory roaded outside of Atlanta. Rename Chicago to Fort Minot because it really is, in my eyes, a terrible permanent city location and should be thought of more as a grab for the Silks. There's a Swordsman on automove to Philadelphia and two Workers on automove through Washington towards New York to mine alone the river.

NOTES:
Although it's really my fault, since I should've been following the turnlogs closer and insisting on it, I'm really unhappy that New York did not get placed until my turn set. I've been playing some 20k games lately, and the power of the Colossus is truly awesome. With gold putting a +4 commerce bonus onto a tile, and a road on a hill putting a +1 commerce bonus, each of those gold hills near New York could've been making +5 commerce each under Republic. With another 8 tiles with River access in New York's radius, each roaded capable of producing +2 commerce, that's a grand total of an additional 11 commerce per turn (including the city tile) that the Colossus could've been netting us, plus the eventual cash it would've been generating as a tourist attraction. It could've been an incredibly powerful science city down the road if it had had Copernicus and Newtons built in it, which seems likely given how slow the AI is to research anything in this game. In my eyes, an opportunity lost, but again, my fault for not insisting on it.

We currently have 5 Swordsmen online and the force is slowly growing. Odds are we can knock-off The Hague sometime in the near future and then sue the Dutch for peace, then attack Rheims and eventually wipe out France. A key military concern will be finishing Mathematics and then getting SoZ online for awesome ACs and getting some Catapults build to support a stack. I'm also in favor of getting our Scouts back and disbanding them, as they serve little further purpose.

Regarding expansion, we've effectively run out of really great spots that won't require fighting for except one, which will require culture warring itself. The rest are mostly fill-in-the-hole to grab some costal spots that might be good later on after development. I am also absolutely in favor of abandoning Fort Minot later on and replacing it with a better lay out either after culture warring has started against Rheims, or it has been destroyed, because its position is awful.

I recommend starting the revolt to Republic immediately after Washington finishes its Settler.

Regarding Ivory, Atlanta's Temple will finish in 3 and expand in 5, getting us Ivory in 8. I also advise, after filling in some more cities, converting over from Settlers to Workers, and getting some of those Gems hooked up, as there is only so much more space worth expanding into. For more on that, see below:

DOTMAP:
MSTK1-DM1275.JPG


In my opinion as to order of importance: Lime, Purple, Yellow, Red, Orange, Pink.

Lime is important mostly because it's the best site left. Rheims has not yet culturally expanded and seems somewhat unlikely to do so, making cultural warfare with a rushed Temple possible that might flip the city and save us a few turns of combat. It also takes advantage of the river, and would ultimately snag both the Iron and Silk. Purple gives a port city with some room for growth and also secures the passage down to New York from the North, further hampering any efforts to try and get to that odd little peninsula except by sea. Otherwise it offers no real benefits other than to occupy space. The same is true for Yellow, except that Yellow has no real strategic value, and is mostly just a costal city that has decent shield capacity. Red seems valuable to me because it blocks the direct route from Paris to Washington even if the city itself is rather lackluster - its positioning also enables another city to be placed to the SE of the mountain near the two sugar which could have high food production once Paris is eventually destroyed. Orange is much the same as Purple and Yellow in that it merely fills space, but it's position is even less important and it would take effort to bring infrastructure to it. Pink is non-critical entirely and merely serves as Fort Minot's replacement, because if you're going to have a worthless tundra city it may as well be on the coast.

And the save:
 
Good turns SD, we are in great shape and well ahead in tech. The switch to Republic will be tricky as we will have a big unit cost that we will need to plan for. Under Republic unit support is 1 per town and we have 7 towns and 23 units. Extra units cost 2 gold each so that is -32 gpt. I suggest we disband all regular warriors and spread Philly's swordsmen round to supply some defence. If the scouts don't make it home in time disband them where they are. I agree we should revolt in 2 turns so we can move those two settlers in place to help offset the unit cost. The other way to reduce cost is to grow some towns into cities which support 3 units each (eg Washington, Boston and Philadelphia). To do that we will need to hook up the other two lux as a priority.

It was never intended that we try for the Ivory east of Philly. I suggested NW of Atlanta (where you have just completed the road) by building a coastal town in the same spot you have the purple dot. That saves building a temple in Atlanta. We can in fact still do that. If we revolt in 2 it leaves Atlanta's temple one turn short. A settler can travel to the purple dot and build while we are in anarchy so by the time we become a republic we will already have the Ivory. We can then switch Atlanta to a Zeus prebuild. If the Dutch beat us to that spot we let the temple complete.

The other lux is Gems. We could either do this by sending the second settler to the orange dot or by building a Colony. The Colony uses up a worker but it saves us roading the mountain so that would also be completed while we are in anarchy. We have workers in place now to work on the required roads. I agree we should keep our workers in pairs to make the most of our industrious trait (although that won't apply during anarchy of course).

Even though unit cost will be hurting us I'd still like to see one more unit built - put a boat in the water. We still have 5 civs to find. If you look at the map to the east of the Incan town Olly something there is a wide tract of coastal water going well offshore and that could be our link to the other continent. We could switch Seattle to a curragh now, it will complete in one turn without any loss of shields.

Going to republic at this stage may make unit management tough but it is certainly better than an extra period of anarchy. However it will be a very bad time to fight a war until we have our costs under control again. Once we grow a few towns into cities and our Ancient Cavalry start arriving we'll be in better shape to fight.

I'm sorry we missed out on New York - you did mention it early in the game but I must admit it passed me by. I have never built the Colossus and didn't appreciate it's benefits.
 
Guess what I did read I still didn't read that carefully. :crazyeye:

I propose sending Washington's Settler to Purple Dot as you suggest and Boston's to Lime Dot. Then to consolidate support costs it might be better to get out two more Settlers and send them to Red and Yellow or Yellow and Orange before revolting. It might actually be better to go Red and Yellow because then Gems can be colonized rather than having to stick Workers on that mountain for however many turns.
 
NIce set of turns mate. I wonder will I ever be able to plan things as throughly as you do guys, instead of just doing stuff that "feels" right at the moment :/
 
As TC216 hasn't been sighted since he signed up I suggest he be dropped from the roster. MjM has also been absent for a while. If he skips this turn too we might be down to five. That should be enough to win the game though.
 
lurker's comment:
Symphony D. said:
Since we're one turn off I'll play 11 turns...

TURNLOG:
Also, having workers work individually is just a waste of time, especially when we're Industrious and paired workers can complete a road a turn.
:shakehead Sorry... Not a good idea....

Lets see 2 workers paired up will build a road in 1 turn... Yep...True...
Step-Step (Turn 1) -Road-Road (Turn 2)
Step-Step (Turn 3) -Road-Road (Turn 4)
In 4 turns using 2 workers... Thats 2 roaded tiles. Notice this is 8 worker turns! (2 worker turns per 'turn')

Doing it seperatly
Step (Turn 1) -Road (Turn 2) -Road (Turn 3)
Step (Turn 1) -Road (Turn 2) -Road (Turn 3)
Will require only 6 worker turns.

Stacking workers is a good idea when Mining/Irrigating/Clearing allready roaded tiles. But to road? Best do it with 1 worker if you want to be efficient with your worker turns.
 
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