Much Ado About Lesbian Teen Sex?

[Tee Kay]

Is a 16yo too young to give consent? How about a 18yo. How about we move it up to 21yo, or 25yo. How about we make it so that they have to be married first? AoC is 14-15 in most of Europe; does that make it a continent of sexual predators?

I think everyone here knows what the law says. The argument is over whether the law is just.

 

[Farm Boy]

It seems the coach did not do enough if she did not inform authorities.

I'd say you are probably right. Should probably receive a termination notice if not also a trip to court.

 

[Puck Nutty]

Given the evidence of statutory rape, in what way do you see the coach could have been silent on the issue?

According to the article, the coach was aware of their relationship, but not of any sexual contact between them. Also, the article indicates that Kaitlyn was 17 when the coach found out that the two girls were dating.

Ergo, it seems that they both minors at the time and no evidence of sexual contact was on hand. So yeah, it seems from the information provided that she kicked a girl off of the team for dating another girl. Which begs the question, if a 17 year old boy was dating his 14 year old female teammate, would he have been similarly dismissed?

 

[Bamspeedy]

The coach just knew they were dating not that sex was involved would be my guess. She's not a cheerleading coach so you can't say that coach allows hetero relationships and not homosexual relationships.

If the school knew where the incident took place they were even more justified in expelling her since it took place in the school bathroom.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...e-of-gay-bias-in-teen-sex-prosecution/2122506

 

[bhsup]

AoC is 14-15 in most of Europe; does that make it a continent of sexual predators?

Yeah, frankly, I'd say it does. I saw your example of what happened in Spain once and I was blown away that you took away from that the idea that we should lower our AoC over here. I was personally thinking "Holy crap, Spain is totally screwed up."

Regarding your other questions about the other ages, I personally have no interest in discussing those hypotheticals because they have nothing to do with this particular case, which was of an adult assaulting a 14 year old minor.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

18 year old who sexually assaults a 14 year old should be prosecuted

Isn't sexual assault about involuntary sex, not about whether it was legally consensual?

I think that makes a difference, if that's the case. (genuinely don't know)

 

[bhsup]

There is no valid counter-argument of it not being assault.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Great, well that was fun discussing. See you next time

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah, frankly, I'd say it does. I saw your example of what happened in Spain once and I was blown away that you took away from that the idea that we should lower our AoC over here. I was personally thinking "Holy crap, Spain is totally screwed up."

By the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Rate per 100,000 population:
United States of America 27.3
Spain 3.4

 

[JohannaK]

I saw your example of what happened in Spain once and I was blown away that you took away from that the idea that we should lower our AoC over here. I was personally thinking "Holy crap, Spain is totally screwed up."

That was me, not TK. And I was frankly quite astounded upon first hearing of it, but hey if there's love... then turned out the younger didn't really want a relationship, I mean he kept trying to avoid dating, so they split up. No harsh feelings. (Although the older I know for certain suffered quite a bit for 24 hours... before he started dating my crush T_T)

When people have some common sense and/or are responsible, nothing bad has to happen, as is the case. I do think that maybe 15 would be a better AoC, but that's because I can't help thinking that 18x14 is kinda creepy.

In any case, I find this absurd. If the girls were in a relationship already for about a year, a find it quite shocking that anybody could qualify that as Assault, moreover if there are no news on the alleged victim. And by that I mean, did she say anything on the matter?

EDIT: Thanks Ziggy. I was just thinking of that right now.

 

[bhsup]

Oops, sorry! It's those bloody avatars... One of you need to switch to one of the other ponies.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And by that I mean, did she say anything on the matter?

That has been missing from the story all along.

 

[bhsup]

She has nothing to say that would be of any relevance. Her personal opinion doesn't matter. Really, if we collectively think a 14 year old is incapable of giving consent for sexual contact and make a law stating that, should she be able to void its nothin by saying "hey no, it was okay with me" ??

The whole point is that regardless of what she may think, she's too young and immature to actually know, so we need the law to protect her.

 

[JohannaK]

Precisely my point. Although, of course, it's just a 15yo, whatever she has to say is irrelevant. In the face of the law, that is. Because it is quite relevant to me.

EDIT: x-post

 

[MobBoss]

I understand prosecutiorial discretion. If it's so great we could just make speeding a capital offense, or even just a 5-20 year sentence with optional offender registration and plea it down as appropriate.

What I'm more looking for is an addressing of the Illinois statutes I linked in. How is a law that is based on gradations and steps based around the age difference between the parties in the sexual relationship not preferable in a statutory rape law compared to one that massively jumps around like the Florida one where 6 years is ok here, 3 years and 1 day is send you to a sodomy-dungeon at a different point and oh maybe we wont if the prosecutor got laid last night and is in a good mood, etc?

Overhyping the issue isn't helping your point.

Well I can certainly see how you would be confused about that, then. See, this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality or how one approves or disapproves of it. It has only to do with an adult sexually assaulting a fourteen year old minor. Whether the adult or minor is a male or female has not bearing whatsoever on it. Now, if some want to try to do such a silly and misguided thing as to bring homosexuality into it, that's their failing.

Yes, I said sexually assaulting. There was no consent because consent could not be given in this case because the minor in question was too young to be capable of giving consent. That's the whole idea behind these laws.

Also, I've noticed a lot of people trying to bring up 15, 16, and 17 years of age for some reason. Those ages have no bearing on this specific instance. The only two relevant ages are 14 and 18. Now if the general concept wants to be discussed, fine, but don't then use those reasonings used for those other ages and try to apply it to the specific case here of the 18 year old violating the 14 year old. Yes, obviously teens are going to have sex. I'm not suggesting we arrest two 17 year olds being barely dressed by the dashboard lights, but that's not what happened here. Again... 18 > 14. I don't know how many times I have to say that before it sinks in.

18 > 14
18 > 14
18 > 14
18 > 14
18 > 14
18 > 14
18 > 14

Anyone, anyone at all, suggesting that it should not be prosecutable... well, I simply have no common ground with you on this issue then because I think every 18 year old who sexually assaults a 14 year old should be prosecuted. IF you think otherwise, all I can say is that I pray you are never in a position to affect these laws in any way.

Well said.

 

[Bamspeedy]

By the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Rate per 100,000 population:
United States of America 27.3
Spain 3.4

Sweden 63.5

Sweden has more than double the rate of the US with an AOC of 15. It's because of sweden's strict definition of what counts as rape not because of the age of consent. The us and other countries have a stricter definition of what is rape (higher age of consent) than spain, so there will be more cases.

 

[Farm Boy]

Eh, it's not overhype. Prosecurial gatekeeping is a necessary escape valve, but relying on it as the primary means of preserving justice, as you seem to by implying we should here, is advocating for rule of man not rule of law. It's a necessary evil, not what should be a primary tool.

 

[MobBoss]

Eh, it's not overhype.

Yes. It is. When you start flinging around terms like 'sodomy dungeon' it sure as hell is overhype.

 

[DinoDoc]

Regarding the thread title: Isn't that the basis for whole sections of the internet?

 

[BvBPL]

Ah, but the age range doesn't have to be a flat 3 years. It could but two years for a younger party at say 13, three years at 14, 12 years at 17(or whatever, just pulling numbers). The punishments for violations could also scale depending on how far outside the accepted range one is.

There already is a floating age of consent based upon the elder participant in Florida and other states. 23 year-olds can engage with 16 year-olds. A case can be made that the floating age should be modified in some manner, but you should be aware that it already exists.

It might be a good idea to reevaluate punishments as well.

Bodies mature sexually before we bestow the magic of legal adulthood in the USA.

Generally speaking, people also mature sexually before they are sufficiently mature socially to engage in meaningful, loving romantic relationships. We need to weigh recognizing the hormones of teenagers against the potential harm letting those hormones run lose could cause.

There’s a balancing act going on between the liberty of teenagers to have sex and appropriate protections of minor children. An age of consent of 12 is too liberal; one of 21 is too authoritarian. Somewhere in-between is appropriate. I don’t think that Florida’s laws are necessarily ideal, but they’re sufficiently reasonable that I can’t overly chide them.

As for the distribution of condoms and the role of mandated reporters, I don’t have a response. That’s too broad an issue for me to tackle at the moment.
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If I had a magic wand, maybe I would wave it and roll back the age of consent laws totally, along with the norm against children not seeing their parents have sex, monogamy, and expectations of sexual privacy. We’d all be Samoans. As Margaret Mead pointed out, Samoans, with their free love culture, don’t have the same sexual neuroses that plague our culture. Of course Mead also pointed out that what works for the Samoans in terms of sex would be both unacceptable and would not be a cure-all in Western culture.