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My fear of the liberal communists...

Richard Cribb

He does monologues
Joined
Nov 5, 2003
Messages
4,291
This thread is triggered by a few observations, both on this board and in real life, a most rational fear of a certain type of people, as well as a quite good article I just happened read and wanted to share.

At least some of you might find it interesting.

Some of the observations first:
- Many young people here seem to be attracted by the so-called libertarians (a word they nicked from us anarchists, but OK), a group that might be a very good illustration on the type discussed in the article.
- Some people here has brought forth the generosity of people like mr. Bill Gates, as shining examples of moral virtue to follow.
- A lot of people seem to think that we (the countries in the industrialized world, that is) have more or less, arrived at the end of history. Only the other day I noticed, on this very board, somebody gushing over Fukuyama's old yarn. I wish I had a Norwegian krone for everytime somebody said or wrote "liberal democracy". Those of us who are impertinent enough to present some system critique of this, are usually seen upon as euphemistically speaking confused individuals.

Besides, I can't recall many threads on Davos or Porto Alegre, which is a bit strange.
However, my memory might play me a trick here, after all I am :old:
So enjoy:

The Liberal Communists of Porto Davos
By Slavoj Zizek

In the last decade, Davos and Porto Alegre have emerged as the twin cities of globalization. In Davos, the exclusive Swiss ski resort, the global elite of managers, statesmen and media personalities meets under heavy police protection, trying to convince us (and themselves) that globalization is its own best remedy. In the sub-tropical, Brazilian city of Porto Alegre, the counter-elite of the anti-globalization movement convenes, trying to convince us (and themselves) that capitalist globalization is not our fate, that, as their official slogan has it, “another world is possible.” Lately, however, the Porto Alegre reunions seem to have lost their impetus. Where did the bright stars of Porto Alegre go?

Some of them, at least, moved to Davos itself! That is to say, more and more, the predominant tone of the Davos meetings comes from the group of entrepreneurs who French journalist Olivier Malnuit ironically refers to as “liberal communists” (that is “liberal” in the pro-market, European sense) who no longer accept the opposition between “Davos” (global capitalism) and “Porto Alegre” (the new social movements’ alternative to global capitalism). They claim that we can have the global capitalist cake (thrive as profitable entrepreneurs) and eat it too (endorse the anti-capitalist causes of social responsibility, ecological concerns, etc.). No need for Porto Alegre, they say, since Davos itself can become Porto Davos.

So who are these liberal communists? The usual gang of suspects: Bill Gates and George Soros, the CEOs of Google, IBM, Intel, eBay, as well as court-philosophers like Thomas Friedman. What makes this group interesting is that their ideology is becoming indistinguishable from that of Antonio Negri, who has praised postmodern digital capitalism, which, according to Negri, is becoming almost indistinguishable from communism. By Negri’s reckoning, both the old Right—with its ridiculous belief in authority, order and parochial patriotism—and the old Left—with its big Struggle against Capitalism—are the true conservatives today, completely out of touch with the new realities as they fight their shadow-theatre struggles. The signifier of this new reality in the liberal communist Newspeak is “smart.” Smart means dynamic and nomadic against centralized bureaucracy; dialogue and cooperation against central authority; flexibility against routine; culture and knowledge against old industrial production; and spontaneous interaction against fixed hierarchy.

Bill Gates—software mogul and philanthropist—is the icon of what he called “frictionless capitalism,” the post-industrial society in which we witness the “end of labor,” in which software is winning over hardware and in which the young nerd has replaced the black-suited manager. In the new company headquarters, there is little external discipline, and (ex)hackers dominate the scene, working long hours and enjoying free drinks in plush surroundings. In this respect, it is a crucial feature of Gates as icon that he is (perceived as) the ex-hacker who made it. At the fantasmatic level, the underlying notion here is that Gates is a subversive marginal hooligan who has taken over and dresses himself up as a respectable chairman.

Liberal communists are big executives reforming the spirit of contest, or, to put it the other way round, countercultural geeks who took over big corporations. Their dogma is a new, postmodernized, version of Adam Smith’s invisible hand: Market and social responsibility are not opposites, they can be employed together for mutual benefit. Collaboration with employees, dialogue with customers, respect for the environment and transparent deal-making are now the keys to a successful business.

Liberal communists are pragmatic, they hate ideology. There is no single exploited Working Class today, only concrete problems to be solved, such as starvation in Africa, the plight of Muslim women or religious fundamentalist violence. When there is a humanitarian crisis in Africa—and liberal communists love humanitarian crises, they bring out the best in them!—instead of employing anti-imperialist rhetoric, we should simply examine what really solves the problem: Engage people, governments and business in a common enterprise, approach the crisis in a creative, unconventional way, and don’t worry about labels.

Liberal communists also love May ‘68: What an explosion of youthful energy and creativity! How it shattered the confines of stiff bureaucratic order! What an impetus it gave to economic and social life after the political illusions dropped away! And although they’ve changed since then, they didn’t resign to reality, but rather changed in order to really change the world, to really revolutionize our lives. Didn’t Marx say that all the world’s political upheavals paled in comparison with the invention of the steam engine when it came to changing our lives? And wouldn’t Marx say today: What are all the protests against global capitalism in comparison with the Internet?

Above all, liberal communists see themselves as true citizens of the world, good people who worry. They worry about populist fundamentalists and irresponsible, greedy corporations. They see the “deeper causes” of today’s problems, the mass poverty and hopelessness that breed fundamentalist terror. So their goal is not to earn money, but to change the world (and, in this way, as a by-product, make even more money).

The catch, of course, is that, in order to give it to the community, first you have to take it (or, as they put it, create it). The rationale of liberal communists is that, in order to really help people, you must have the means to do it. And as experience—the dismal failure of all centralized state and collectivist approaches—teaches us, private initiative is by far the most efficient way. So if the state wants to regulate their business, to tax them excessively, it is effectively undermining its own official goal (to make life better for the large majority, to really help those in need).

Liberal communists do not want to just be machines for generating profits: They want their lives to have a deeper meaning. They are against old-fashioned religions and for spirituality sans confessional meditation (everybody knows that Buddhism foreshadowed brain sciences, that the power of mediation can be measured scientifically!). Their preferred motto is social responsibility and gratitude: They are the first to admit that society was incredibly good to them by allowing them to deploy their talents and amass wealth. And after all, what is the point of their success if not to help people?

However, is any of this really something new? What about the good old Andrew Carnegie, employing a private army to brutally suppress organized labor and then distributing large parts of his wealth for educational, arts and humanitarian causes, proving that, although a man of steel, he has a heart of gold? In the same way, today’s liberal communists give with one hand what they first took away with the other.

This is what makes a figure like Soros ethically so problematic. His daily routine is a lie embodied: Half of his working time is devoted to financial speculations and the other half to humanitarian activities (providing finances for cultural and democratic activities in post-Communist countries, underwriting the movement in the United States to get public money out of private elections, coining pejorative terms like “free-market fundamentalists”) that ultimately fight the effects of his own speculations. Likewise the two faces of Bill Gates: a cruel businessman, destroying or buying out competitors, aiming at virtual monopoly, employing all the dirty tricks to achieve his goals … and the greatest philanthropist in the history of mankind.

In the liberal communist ethics, the ruthless pursuit of profit is counteracted by charity: Charity today is the humanitarian mask that hides the underlying economic exploitation. In a blackmail of gigantic proportions, the developed countries are constantly “helping” the undeveloped (with aid, credits, etc.), thereby avoiding the key issue, namely, their complicity in and co-responsibility for the miserable situation of the undeveloped.

And the same goes for the very opposition between the “smart” and “non-smart” approach. Outsourcing is the key notion here. By way of outsourcing, you export the (necessary) dark side—low wages, harsh labor practices, ecological pollution—to “non-smart” Third World places (or invisible places in the First World itself). The ultimate liberal communist dream is to export the working class itself to the invisible Third World sweatshops.

Etienne Balibar, the French Marxist philosopher, distinguishes the two opposite but complementary forms of excessive violence in the world today: the objective (“structural”) violence that is inherent in the social conditions of global capitalism—i.e., the “automatic” creation of excluded and dispensable individuals (the homeless, the uninsured, the unemployed)—and the subjective violence of newly emerging ethnic and/or religious fundamentalisms. While they fight subjective violence, liberal communists are the very agents of the structural violence that creates the conditions for such explosions of subjective violence. Precisely because liberal communists want to resolve all these secondary malfunctions of the global capital system—to render it “frictionless” for their mechanations—they are the direct embodiment of what is wrong with the system as such.

In the midst of any necessary tactical alliances one has to make with liberal communists when fighting racism, sexism and religious obscurantism, we should remember: Liberal communists are the enemy of every true progressive struggle today.



Source:http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2574/

I fully agree with the last sentence, and I rather take a good, old-fashioned reactionary any day of the week.

Now, before the fun starts, some house rules:
- It is highly recommended to read the article before posting.
- No ad-hominem attacks, no slogans and no spam.
- The first one to use the term "politically correct" will be executed in a most horrible way.:mad:
- Stay focused on topic. Please. With sugar on top.

In short, any constructive feedback on anything remotedly connected to the relevant topics discussed here is most appreciated.:)
 
Ah, this is indeed a great article. Well worth the read.

In fact, I saw a fair bit of myself in there. It's always good to get that objective / reflective take on things. I wonder how many others could say the same? Here are the bits I found worthy of note:
The signifier of this new reality in the liberal communist Newspeak is “smart.” Smart means dynamic and nomadic against centralized bureaucracy; dialogue and cooperation against central authority; flexibility against routine; culture and knowledge against old industrial production; and spontaneous interaction against fixed hierarchy.

...skip to...

And the same goes for the very opposition between the “smart” and “non-smart” approach. Outsourcing is the key notion here. By way of outsourcing, you export the (necessary) dark side—low wages, harsh labor practices, ecological pollution—to “non-smart” Third World places (or invisible places in the First World itself). The ultimate liberal communist dream is to export the working class itself to the invisible Third World sweatshops.
The first bit totally sums up "the ipod generation" doesn't it? We've actually been seeing this really take off since the Punk movement of the 70s I would say, but it's an old political method that has been used since Roman times ie. the mainstreaming and consuming of subversion. Think of The Great Rock & Roll Swindle that Malcolm MacLaren performed and how punk sensibilities were totally processed into the mainstream.

And the second part, working in conjunction with the first, really highlights the colder truths about Globalisation.
This is what makes a figure like Soros ethically so problematic. His daily routine is a lie embodied: Half of his working time is devoted to financial speculations and the other half to humanitarian activities (providing finances for cultural and democratic activities in post-Communist countries, underwriting the movement in the United States to get public money out of private elections, coining pejorative terms like “free-market fundamentalists”) that ultimately fight the effects of his own speculations. Likewise the two faces of Bill Gates: a cruel businessman, destroying or buying out competitors, aiming at virtual monopoly, employing all the dirty tricks to achieve his goals … and the greatest philanthropist in the history of mankind.
Too true!!! I've always thought this about these two. And I'd be lying if I denied there was a small part of me mentioned in there somewhere.
Didn’t Marx say that all the world’s political upheavals paled in comparison with the invention of the steam engine when it came to changing our lives? And wouldn’t Marx say today: What are all the protests against global capitalism in comparison with the Internet?
I don't recall him saying this, or perhaps I'm getting lost in Zizek's sarcasm. What does he mean here?
 
Politically correct! :p

- Many young people here seem to be attracted by the so-called libertarians (a word they nicked from us anarchists, but OK), a group that might be a very good illustration on the type discussed in the article.
I can't say I agree here - I can only think of a handful of posters here who seem like they'd subscribe to Libertarianism. We've got at least as many hardcore commies, and many more leftists and american-style "conservatives".

As for the article, it is, in a way typical of "progressive" texts, much more substantial on what's wrong with the status quo than on what should be erected instead. You don't need to convince me that the present world order is imperfect, or that globalization won't lead to Utopia - what you do need, if you want me to join the ranks of progressives, is to convince me you've got a better alternative to capitalism. You shouldn't try and convince me that Mr Gates's philanthropy does not compensate for his predatory business models, but that you've got an economic system that will produce more wealth and distribute it more equitable than that which has allowed him to amass his fortune.
 
Fun article. A bit to ism-dropping to me, very abstract; it's just shortcutting definitions, boxing people in extravagant categories. Old school politics...
 
Bravo The Last Conformist. Exactly the point I would have said about progressive policy.

<--Libertarian. Doesn't see any better system than capitalism being proferred
 
Excellent article and definitely food for thought. It never ceases to amaze me that every new philosophy on how the world shouold run arrives with a fresh batch of elites ready to tell us what is best from an ivory tower (or in this case, a ski resort :p )

What happens when counterculture becomes mainsteam? The same as the culture that was there before, with new takes on age-old problems. Imperialists thought they would save the world by exporting thier 'superior' culture and beleifs to the masses, and now the new 21-century elites beleive they can save the world, too....by exporting thier superior beleifs to the masses. They aren't colonizing, instead they're 'outsourcing'. THey're not meddling in nations affairs, they're being 'philanthropic'.

Different labels, different backdrops, same b******.
 
The entire article is based on the premise that making alot of money is morally wrong, and those who do are bad people. The crime of wealth is so great, that even major acts of philanthropy cant wipe away the guilt of the wealthy. You either agree with that or you dont. The article has nothing to do with economics.
 
Rambuchan said:
In fact, I saw a fair bit of myself in there. It's always good to get that objective / reflective take on things. I wonder how many others could say the same?
:eek: So I should fear you then?

The first bit totally sums up "the ipod generation" doesn't it? We've actually been seeing this really take off since the Punk movement of the 70s I would say, but it's an old political method that has been used since Roman times ie. the mainstreaming and consuming of subversion. Think of The Great Rock & Roll Swindle that Malcolm MacLaren performed and how punk sensibilities were totally processed into the mainstream.

How true.

Too true!!! I've always thought this about these two. And I'd be lying if I denied there was a small part of me mentioned in there somewhere.
The part about dirty tricks?:p

About the Marx quotation; I have been unable to find it so far, but if Zizek claims he said it I am sure it is genuine.
It is indeed sarcastic.




The Last Conformist said:
Politically correct! :p
I hope you are a light sleeper...:mad:


I can't say I agree here - I can only think of a handful of posters here who seem like they'd subscribe to Libertarianism. We've got at least as many hardcore commies, and many more leftists and american-style "conservatives".
My impression is, that if we bunch together all the "libertarians", randroids and those vaguely attracted to those ideologies, we get a substantial over-representation.
Regarding communists; I can only think of one poster here which I would cathegorise as such, and except for me, only one anarchist as well.
It is of course true that the majority ofpeople represent more mainstream ideologies, but I still think I find a certain discrepancy here.

As for the article, it is, in a way typical of "progressive" texts, much more substantial on what's wrong with the status quo than on what should be erected instead.
Sorry, but that is quite an absurd critique, since that is not the aim of the article.
And apart from the fact that it in general always important to identify a problem before you solve it, you may also want to let people have their say in how to deal with it as well, perhaps "progressives" simply has more faith in collective wisdom than "moderates", "sedates","cynics", conformists or whatever we should term the bold upholders of DA system?
You don't need to convince me that the present world order is imperfect, or that globalization won't lead to Utopia - what you do need, if you want me to join the ranks of progressives, is to convince me you've got a better alternative to capitalism. You shouldn't try and convince me that Mr Gates's philanthropy does not compensate for his predatory business models, but that you've got an economic system that will produce more wealth and distribute it more equitable than that which has allowed him to amass his fortune.
Again, this is another debate.
Besides, while you know virtually everything, it could benefit many others to witness a removal of the halo from around the head of mr.Gates...

Che Guava said:
Excellent article and definitely food for thought. It never ceases to amaze me that every new philosophy on how the world shouold run arrives with a fresh batch of elites ready to tell us what is best from an ivory tower (or in this case, a ski resort :p )

What happens when counterculture becomes mainsteam? The same as the culture that was there before, with new takes on age-old problems. Imperialists thought they would save the world by exporting thier 'superior' culture and beleifs to the masses, and now the new 21-century elites beleive they can save the world, too....by exporting thier superior beleifs to the masses. They aren't colonizing, instead they're 'outsourcing'. THey're not meddling in nations affairs, they're being 'philanthropic'.

Different labels, different backdrops, same b******.
Very good post.:goodjob:
 
I'm thoroughly confused by the terminalogy in the OP. He seems to be using the terms liberal, communist, and libertarian interchangablely which is completely nonsensical.
 
I guess saying 'George Soros and Bill Gates are bad people because theyre rich' is about all the economic theory some people are capable of processing.
 
Oerdin said:
I'm thoroughly confused by the terminalogy in the OP. He seems to be using the terms liberal, communist, and libertarian interchangablely which is completely nonsensical.
No he doesn't.
He uses the ironical term "liberal communists" which he explains the origin of.
He also explains the meaning of "liberal".
Bozo Erectus said:
I guess saying 'George Soros and Bill Gates are bad people because theyre rich' is about all the economic theory some people are capable of processing.
I guess you can do better than that. No such thing is stated, and that is not the topic of the article.
Please go trolling some other place.
 
Its not trolling, its merely an opinion that you dont agree with.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Its not trolling, its merely an opinion that you dont agree with.
No it isn't.
Your statement is off-topic and has a provocative slant.
That is trolling in my book.
 
Its a provocative article. You asked for opinions on it. I gave mine. You disagree with my opinion. If anyone is trolling in this thread, its you, oddly enough.

edit: I would reccomend that since you loathe me so intensely, that you just put me on ignore, to avoid this sort of silliness.
 
@luceafarul: ok, like Taliesin in the other thread, you have preached mostly to the choir here, by pointing out the fact that there are problems in our capitalist structure and Bill Gates is not the messiah. :) We are all in agreement. So lets get on with the real question.

What is the solution you are proposing?
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Its a provocative article. You asked for opinions on it. I gave mine. You disagree with my opinion. If anyone is trolling in this thread, its you, oddly enough.
:lol: You type quickly!
Very well then, explain to me why you think this is an article about economical theory, and that is the only thing about it the article writer understands. You know, implying that sort of things about a persons' intellect might easily be interpreted as something beginning on "t".
Then check out if there could be something else that he wants to communicate, something that other seem to have grasped.
Also note that my comment was directed to your second post in this thread, not the first one.

edit: I would reccomend that since you loathe me so intensely, that you just put me on ignore, to avoid this sort of silliness.
Don't be paranoid. A lot more is required to get to my ignore-list. You are nowhere near achieving that.
And I un-loathe you. Intensely.:)
 
At least nobody is elfing yet.
:)
Well, I somewhat kind of agree with Bozo when he says the article postulates that economic liberalism is nefast. Afterwards the article is mainly about drawing a impressionist picture of various personalities, it's not really challenging on a scientific or logical ground IMO.

Remember that liberal communist is an expression created by a frenchmen to make "un beau mot" (an elegant word), we have to wait for an american to make it an acronym so that it passes the test of time. ;-) The ToT ;-)

Anyway I kind of understand that this semantic is repulsive from an anarchist point of view, since romantically supporting both socialism and libertarianism at the same time for the last centuries and ending up with a bunch of cash machines labelled almost the same must feel pretty odd.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
edit: I would reccomend that since you loathe me so intensely, that you just put me on ignore, to avoid this sort of silliness.

That would be pretty paradoxal since he mainly visit OT for the entertainment us right-wing cry babies provide.
 
betazed said:
@luceafarul: ok, like Taliesin in the other thread, you have preached mostly to the choir here, by pointing out the fact that there are problems in our capitalist structure and Bill Gates is not the messiah. :) We are all in agreement. So lets get on with the real question.
Are we? Where have all the liberal communists gone? (You can almost hear Marlene Dietrich, or what?)
What is the solution you are proposing?
Sorry but that is off-topic again.
 
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