Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
lurker's comment:
AFAIK, the build has no relevance. Though, IIRC, you can't pop a Settler from a hut if you are building one - maybe that's what you are thinking of.
Myth01- Training Day- Regent
- Thread starter mythmonster2
- Start date
lurker's comment:
AFAIK, the build has no relevance. Though, IIRC, you can't pop a Settler from a hut if you are building one - maybe that's what you are thinking of.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Just to follow up on what TheOverseer714 said.
First, it never occured to me to disband clunkers in a resisting city in order to produce a worker/slave. I will start doing that.
Second, even a not-so-clunker unit is a good swap for a slave. Remember, slaves do not require upkeep like workers do, so disbanding something that becomes 20 shields to produce a 10 shield worker/slave is still a bargain.
Third, the faster a city is starved down to size 1 or 2, it makes it easier to subdue the population with military might since the base flip chance goes down. Once the population is tamed (or at least docile), that too reduces the flip risk (at least, I think it does).
In turn, that means less attention needs to be given to babysitting the crybabies and more attention on spreading the Iroqouis Enlightenment.
Finally, once a city is brought into submission, it will be productive and make things, serving as a specialist farm if needed or producing useful things, like Tanks and Infantry.
First, it never occured to me to disband clunkers in a resisting city in order to produce a worker/slave. I will start doing that.
Second, even a not-so-clunker unit is a good swap for a slave. Remember, slaves do not require upkeep like workers do, so disbanding something that becomes 20 shields to produce a 10 shield worker/slave is still a bargain.
Third, the faster a city is starved down to size 1 or 2, it makes it easier to subdue the population with military might since the base flip chance goes down. Once the population is tamed (or at least docile), that too reduces the flip risk (at least, I think it does).
In turn, that means less attention needs to be given to babysitting the crybabies and more attention on spreading the Iroqouis Enlightenment.
Finally, once a city is brought into submission, it will be productive and make things, serving as a specialist farm if needed or producing useful things, like Tanks and Infantry.
stainless_steel
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 22
Hm,
Interesting start position. My initial thoughts:
1.) settle where we are.
2.) I usually play the game with the food/sheild icons activated. This way I can ID the tiles quickly. I think initial worker moves would be to mine any GB tiles first. (I personally prefer to build a road first, and then mine/irrigate).
3.) It was my understanding (and I may be wrong . . LOL) that this SG was going to focus on a conquest or domination victory. If this is correct then we should not switch to republic, not enough military support. If we want an AA gov other than despot, then lets do Monarchy.
4-a.) If we're going for military victory, our UU is the mounted warrior (replaces horseman). Maybe we should start researching Wheel (to quickly reveal horses). If we have easy access to horses, let's then go for WC followed by HB.
4-b) If for some reason no horses (I don't think this is likely though), I think writing would be a good bet. It would capitalize on the strength of the alphabet start tech and would be good to trade with other civs. Also can build embassies with it, which is good for finding out more info re: the map.
5.) regarding an agi civ. I think if we focus on building settlers and workers in the early turns, the unhappines factor due to over-population shouldn't be too much of a problem initially.
6.) re: curraghs, we won't know how close we are to the coast until we settle and expand our map view. at this point, it's hard to decide how big of a role they'll play in the early game.
Well, I guess those are my thoughts for now.
Interesting start position. My initial thoughts:
1.) settle where we are.
2.) I usually play the game with the food/sheild icons activated. This way I can ID the tiles quickly. I think initial worker moves would be to mine any GB tiles first. (I personally prefer to build a road first, and then mine/irrigate).
3.) It was my understanding (and I may be wrong . . LOL) that this SG was going to focus on a conquest or domination victory. If this is correct then we should not switch to republic, not enough military support. If we want an AA gov other than despot, then lets do Monarchy.
4-a.) If we're going for military victory, our UU is the mounted warrior (replaces horseman). Maybe we should start researching Wheel (to quickly reveal horses). If we have easy access to horses, let's then go for WC followed by HB.
4-b) If for some reason no horses (I don't think this is likely though), I think writing would be a good bet. It would capitalize on the strength of the alphabet start tech and would be good to trade with other civs. Also can build embassies with it, which is good for finding out more info re: the map.
5.) regarding an agi civ. I think if we focus on building settlers and workers in the early turns, the unhappines factor due to over-population shouldn't be too much of a problem initially.
6.) re: curraghs, we won't know how close we are to the coast until we settle and expand our map view. at this point, it's hard to decide how big of a role they'll play in the early game.
Well, I guess those are my thoughts for now.
mythmonster2
BEC NOIR! RUN!
Curious, what is the Republic Slingshot? And, taking in all this info, I'm going to play now.
lurker's comment: Hmmm . . . There seems to be no end to my meddling in this one.
I think conquest or domination does appear to be the VC of choice right now. However, I'd still go Republic. It's plenty durable enough for a military conquest, and the unit support is sufficient, particularly in conjunction with the commerce bonus. Fight smarter, not harder. Manage your losses. Time the switch from despo to Republic after you've got several size 7+ cities. Roads, roads, and more roads. Supplement your workforce by buying and capturing slaves.
I think conquest or domination does appear to be the VC of choice right now. However, I'd still go Republic. It's plenty durable enough for a military conquest, and the unit support is sufficient, particularly in conjunction with the commerce bonus. Fight smarter, not harder. Manage your losses. Time the switch from despo to Republic after you've got several size 7+ cities. Roads, roads, and more roads. Supplement your workforce by buying and capturing slaves.
In C3C, if you're the first to get Philosophy, you get a free tech. So if you go Alphabet->Writing->Code of Laws->Philosophy, you can take Republic as your free tech.
mythmonster2
BEC NOIR! RUN!
Well, did as best as I could, but I decided to go to 3000 B.C , even though by my calculations its turn 22?
4000 B.C: Found Salamanca, the hut gives us a map. I send the worker south to mine the sugar.
Our seeing at 4000 B.C (The water you can see is a coastline!)
3800: Build a Warrior, start another warrior.
3750: I decide to send the warrior south towards the hut, leaving Salamanca undefended.
3650: Send the worker to mine the other sugar.
3600: Finish the second warrior, start another warrior. Warrior 1 pops a map from the southern hut. I decide to send Warrior 2 to the northern hut.
3550: Border Expansion.
3500: Warrior 3 finished, start a settler.
3450: I fortify Warrior 3 in Sal.
3400: The northern hut gives us gold.
3350: Salamanca grows to size 3.
3250: Now that we have a cow in our borders, I send our worker to road towards it. I also see a hut with warrior 1.
3150- The Settler's finished, start another warrior. I send the settler to the silks to get them. Also, the hut I spied gives us Ceremonial Burial!
Our free tech.
3050- The warrior is done in Sal, so I start another.
3000- My turnset ends quietly, here is a picture.
EDIT: Ah, there we go. The save!
Roster
Mythmonster2- Just Went
pol1- Up
Pinman- On Deck
stainless_steel
ngraner42
Commando Bob
Hey wait guys, I just realized, I was playing with a no corruption thing! Will that affect your playing, or just mine?
4000 B.C: Found Salamanca, the hut gives us a map. I send the worker south to mine the sugar.
3800: Build a Warrior, start another warrior.
3750: I decide to send the warrior south towards the hut, leaving Salamanca undefended.
3650: Send the worker to mine the other sugar.
3600: Finish the second warrior, start another warrior. Warrior 1 pops a map from the southern hut. I decide to send Warrior 2 to the northern hut.
3550: Border Expansion.
3500: Warrior 3 finished, start a settler.
3450: I fortify Warrior 3 in Sal.
3400: The northern hut gives us gold.
3350: Salamanca grows to size 3.
3250: Now that we have a cow in our borders, I send our worker to road towards it. I also see a hut with warrior 1.
3150- The Settler's finished, start another warrior. I send the settler to the silks to get them. Also, the hut I spied gives us Ceremonial Burial!
Our free tech.
3050- The warrior is done in Sal, so I start another.
3000- My turnset ends quietly, here is a picture.
EDIT: Ah, there we go. The save!
Roster
Mythmonster2- Just Went
pol1- Up
Pinman- On Deck
stainless_steel
ngraner42
Commando Bob
Hey wait guys, I just realized, I was playing with a no corruption thing! Will that affect your playing, or just mine?
lurker's comment: Agreed, go Republic. Monarchy may be better for war, but being able to fight a war in Republic will be a better learning experience, as it is a great skill to have in the game- and one that I currently lack.
You should probably restart then, No Corruption makes the game easier on levels below Emperor, and it just changes the game so much...
Oh, and BTW, hit the "enter" button after the last word before you post a pic, or the last word will be shifted down to just to the left of the bottom of the pic.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
lurker's comment: I opened your save file with CivAssistII and it shows you're on turn 20.
I've never played with the "no corruption" mod, but I think it means that, not only will it affect the rest of the team's play, it will also affect the AI. That would change the game so totally, that it would be almost impossible for any of the more advanced players to teach anything. In addition, one of the most important things you can learn in a training game is how to manage corruption.
You also have "random seed" set to OFF.
I can make you a new starting map with all settings the same except for the corruption and random seed, if you like, but you'd need to replay the first set.
Edit: Attached new save file.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
lurker's comment: There have been several SG's affected recently by slight setting errors. In Rat27, we accidently got respawn in the on position, which could really make an AW game.... interesting. Hercules slaying the Hydra springs to mind....
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
lurker's comment: I saw that in Rat27.
But that's an Emperor game with fairly experienced players. A training game for Chieftain and Warlord players, trying to move up to Regent, seems like the place to teach solid basics...managing corruption with tax/science farms, running a settler factory, managing a Republic economy, combined arms warfare. Golly, those are things I was taught in my very first training game, and that was at Emperor level. Using a crutch, like reduced corruption, teaches the wrong things at this level IMO.
ngraner42
Ultrarunner
I agree we should restart with normal corruption.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I, too, favor a new start.
I also think that each of us should take the start, play twenty turns, and then post our turn logs when we have all played our turns.
We'll then look at each player's effort and decide which save we want to continue playing with.
Or we can just use gmaharriet's new and improved save file and everyone play 20 turns from it. Just try to ignore what mythmonster has done so far and play those 20 turns as if you had not seen his turnlog or screenshots.
I also think that each of us should take the start, play twenty turns, and then post our turn logs when we have all played our turns.
We'll then look at each player's effort and decide which save we want to continue playing with.
Or we can just use gmaharriet's new and improved save file and everyone play 20 turns from it. Just try to ignore what mythmonster has done so far and play those 20 turns as if you had not seen his turnlog or screenshots.
pol1
kayaking physicist
i vote also for restarting.
but i don't want to play first 10/20 turns myself again... reason? i've examined map and situation and my choices would be biased towards some moves/locations.
in this locations (hmmm now i'm using this knowlege...) :
irrigated cow will give us 5fpt, IMO that is the way to go!
but to achieve that we have to irrigate one grass tile - in this situation i do not consider that as waste of worker turns. first irrigate, then road the cow.
we will have better use of that one extra food for 3 turns, than of 1 gold for four turns.
i suggest going to do that in first place, sugar tiles can wait.
!food is way more important than shields now!
2nd city's location : i suggest moving it next to the river N or NE, we won't have to build aqua and will have 3fpt on city's tile from the beginning.
i've re-read Cbob's post and i will play it and post a save in a moment.
but i don't want to play first 10/20 turns myself again... reason? i've examined map and situation and my choices would be biased towards some moves/locations.
in this locations (hmmm now i'm using this knowlege...) :
irrigated cow will give us 5fpt, IMO that is the way to go!
but to achieve that we have to irrigate one grass tile - in this situation i do not consider that as waste of worker turns. first irrigate, then road the cow.
we will have better use of that one extra food for 3 turns, than of 1 gold for four turns.
i suggest going to do that in first place, sugar tiles can wait.
!food is way more important than shields now!
2nd city's location : i suggest moving it next to the river N or NE, we won't have to build aqua and will have 3fpt on city's tile from the beginning.
i've re-read Cbob's post and i will play it and post a save in a moment.
lurker's comment:
There was one other thing that caught my eye about mythmonster2's screenshots. That was slider settings. 50% science, 50% to the treasury.
This is pretty much what I thought, too. Without corruption, there's no need for specialist farms. Learning to properly manage corruption and specialist farms is, IMO, most certainly worth learning.
I agree with pol1 here. While the rule of thumb is not to water grassland under despotism, getting water to that cow is a different story!
City placement has never been my strong suit, but I do remember wondering why that settler wasn't on a riverbank. Y'all have miles and miles of riverbanks of which you can take advantage.
There was one other thing that caught my eye about mythmonster2's screenshots. That was slider settings. 50% science, 50% to the treasury.
mythmonster2
BEC NOIR! RUN!
So, completely new start or gma's map?
pol1
kayaking physicist
we can play that one.
we know some things about the map, maybe You also remember huts' locations, but will it matter much now?
i've played first 20 on that one also.
we know some things about the map, maybe You also remember huts' locations, but will it matter much now?
i've played first 20 on that one also.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
lurker's comment: That caught my eye too. It's a general rule of "Civ wisdom" that 50% is the worst possible setting for the science slider. It's preferable to either go 100% science for maximum research OR 0% (or single scientist) for minimum research...instead using the gold for buying techs from the AI. A middle-of-the-road setting neither gives you "fast" research nor boosts your treasury enough to afford purchasing techs.
Which extreme you actually use is a way of determining game strategy, something you need to decide when starting the game. In lieu of any discussion, most SG teams tend to go for maximum research, but this might be a good time for this team to discuss the concept.
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