I got it, but as this is a busy day, I wont be able to play or post until at LEAST this evening.
Excellent sets this round by all. I must say, we turned this one around MUCH faster than I thought we would. Since I was "mildly concerned" about our Western region, I imagine S.ilver was pulling his hair out! (heh, no offense mate, just some playful ribbing about your "worrying tendencies")
I am already thinking this group is ready for Emp. I think we have all become more accustomed to each others strengths and weaknesses. I have been playing Emp in my games for a while now, and its not so bad. I think the Monarch to Emperor jump is one of the easier leaps, because Prince to Monarch is the bigger one (AIs get Archery is huge, with Emp, the AIs get . . . maybe the Wheel + Archery? Its not bad). If we arent looking to straight Emp, remember, we CAN have someone like rolo provide us a map and play it at Emperor-Light.
At any rate, my set will be played tonight, and if I am not too tired I will post it as well. I am very glad we have such a strong group of cool players. I see REAL improvement too, especially in Groo and Grandad. Wow, both of you should be at Emp Light, minimum (You too S.ilver! Try one of the NC games at Emp, and trust yourself!)
Thats an interesting suggestion Gatling Gun (about the FP move). If I thought we were headed anywhere other than State Property (I guess...) then its a very powerful tactic.
I agee with the running over Asoka. If we bribe him to attack Sury we can backstab him and take his best cities. I'd suggest vassalising him so we can make a quike turn around and don't have to worry about a load of nex cities dragging us back down.
It looks like we're do for a Domination win here. Do you agree?
I'd use the GE on SoL for preference (if we could) but I'm happy with the FP as it'll boost our ecomony loads.
Also happy with swithing civics to FS from Burea but i still think we need OR ATM. Could we switch into Merc?
I would say deleting our out of date an excess units is a priority as their just money for old rope.
Do we have two super medics? I can't recall. If not the GG could go on one for a strong two SoD setup.
Excellent sets this round by all. I must say, we turned this one around MUCH faster than I thought we would. Since I was "mildly concerned" about our Western region, I imagine S.ilver was pulling his hair out! (heh, no offense mate, just some playful ribbing about your "worrying tendencies")
Yeah, I panic too much for my own good . If this was a personal game, I probably would've panicked into doing something foolish earlier, seeing the tech lead that Mansa has on us (even though he's a vassal!). I posses the utter inability to properly asses a non-military situation. When at peace, all I can think about is the AI running away with things.
SGs really make me focus though. Playing solo, I tend to fall into the same old grind, and I might whack end turn too fast while neglecting stuff like citizen management and diplomacy (which causes my downfall at higher levels). With the 10 turn format and discussion, it really makes one concentrate more on each turn... I think I might start playing my individual turns in small batches, and asses the situation in a similar manner.
The floating palace tactic was one that I used in Civ 3. For some reason, I've never actually used it in Civ 4, probably because gold expenses can be made up in other ways, and is less painful than the "corruption" that occurred in Civ 3...
Domination is definitely the way to go. Religion is on its way out with the advent of Free Religion, and the AP is across the continent anyways, complicating things. I also don't want to get into a grindfest like NCSG3, where we waited too long and had to pull out all stops. We have the advantage right now, and we should use it to get our victory as soon as it is sensible.
I, too, would prefer saving the GE for an actual world wonder, but the FP would save us lots of gold right now, and may be a worthwhile investment. Especially if we are looking to win now, rather than continue to collect advantages to win later.
Bureau has seen its days in the sun, but it's done now, especially considering we're fairly commerce poor in the capital, and we have enough production bonuses for the multiplier not to matter. Dropping OR is to save money, although our new cities will take longer to get up. If our priority is getting them online, then perhaps we should stick with OR. Paci was the suggested alternative, so we could grab lots of Great People, although I'm unsure if they are really worth it right now, considering we've done almost nothing with our last few GPs (I think we have 4 sitting on a farm near Thebes). I believe we are already in Merc, so that's not an issue.
Delete the old units, yes, but be sure that we replace at least some with newer units, and definitely rebuild our garrisons when rifling comes in. If we are going for Domination, it makes little sense to stall on military matters.
The one thing I keep noticing in our games is how slow we are at getting a stable economy up and running in the early part of the game (up to early ADs). I would suggest that this is down to several factors.
1. Workers. We always seem to have too few.
2. Expanding to marginal and far away sites to block land at an early stage when there is good land in our back yards (if its a vital resourse capture this is more aceptable).
3. We seem to go in to wars with a general idea of our goals but we don't always achieve them or they are to ambitious/not abitious enouth (see our war with Joao in this game as one where we hit our early goals but failed to see they could have been more ambitious).
There are probably more points such as earlier city specialisation.
So. In these troubled economic times I've been playing with an idea in my head.....
..... Mehmed II, It's the economy stupid!
I really love Mehmeds traits and UB. He's ORG and EXP.
This means that civic upkeep is reduced by 50 percent and we get double production speed of Lighthouses, Factories, and Courthouses from ORG and +2 health per city, double production speed of Granaries and Harbors and 25% faster production of Workers.
Thats 5 cheap buildings (2 of which are vital early city buildings and 2 more early buildings that can be pretty handy given the right setting).
The worker bonous is amazing if you two pop whip a settler at 103 (epic speed) as it means you get most of a worker free to go with your settler pod (usually only a couple of turns after the whip of the settler).
His UB is an Aquaduct that gives 2 and this is great for a building that every city will have and is availibly pretty early on. Its nice synergy with EXP as you can get larger cities early.
ORG is good for us as its a bit more forgiving of our REX style.
UU is a musket that gets a 25% bonus against Melee, Archery and Horse units. Ok if you make a beeline for Gunpowder early.
So what am I suggesting (if you hadn't already guessed)? I suggest we make this our next SG. I know I'm time poor at the moment and I'm not the only one, but if we were to start this we could take it nice and slow to really work on our gameplay. Oh yer I'd suggest this as an Emporer game!!!
Waiting to play and post my set in the AM. Had a fun day with the family, exhausted though, grandchildren tire me out. Just wanna veg and play this series game that I dont have to report on, heh. We are in great shape though. Considering the move-Palace, build FP closer to Thebes plan. Thebes is already our HE-WP city, its going to supply our empire with Rifles. Even putting FP back in Thebes after Palace is moved isnt horrible. Memphis is better, though. If we are sure Asoka is next, then Palace in Phi-Ramesses wouldnt be bad, that city can grab a LOT of tiles once Asoka's culture is out of the way. Given its combination of river, hills, FPs, etc, its actually a great Bur city. I dunno, I will think about it and consult here before making a move that drastic.
We have this well in hand though, thats for sure. Rifling is going to make it a joke, so we can do whatever we please, heh. I do think I am going to do one thing, trade RP to Mansa for Eco and 750 gold, Fred and Sury dont even have PP yet, so that shouldnt be too bad. Thinking if we are looking for cash, swapping to Rep, FS, Caste, FM and OR. We can run many more Scientists to leverage Rep when we lose the spec's from Merc, but oh well. Wondering if its time to start converting some farms to Cottages, with Bio and Democracy around the corner. I dont like having to run Wealth so early in the game, there are a lot of buildings that help those cities.
Just one note, FP is a national wonder, so building it would block West Point. Unless we have built West Point already, and in that case FP is blocked. Just a minor detail there.
I had some variant ideas I was going through, but if we are ramping up to emperor, maybe I'll save them and host a lower level SG some time (don't feel like getting slaughtered on emperor, haven't played there since vanilla).
If we play Mehmed on a watery map, we can handle Emp with ease. Check the current Emperor Cookbook, we are playing Mehmed on M&S. Building the GLH gives you a nice cushion to have some mistakes and setbacks and lose some races and such, but its pretty killer. All his buildings are perfect, its a match made in heaven.
Guys, I would be very cautious about tailoring the step up too much, as you will lose the challenge and interest. I am the weakest player of all of us, and I am starting to get competative in solo Monarch, so I would be wary about dumbing down too far.
With regards this game, I agree with FP in Memphis, lets rebuild until we hit rifling, then switch to unit production rebuild garrisons then hit into Asoka and clean him off.
I agree with not toying with the AI like we did last game, lets just finish them as cleanly as possible.
Inherited Turn = I start out with some of the changes we discussed. I made this trade with Mansa for Eco, whipped in a few cities, then went to Rep-FS-Caste-FM-OR.
Spoiler:
I then proceeded through 10 turns of rather boring clicking Enter, while sending the Workers around to build some things. Got quite a bit accomplished though, here are the basics:
I built a couple spies and sent em to start sleeping in Asokas cities.
I built the new Palace in Pi-Ramesses, and started the FP in Elephantine (Memphis already has NE and Oxford). Still saved the GE though, I think we should hold onto him for one of the post-Radio wonders, the big culture ones, they pop conquered cities very well. Maybe even SoL, but I think we can build it.
I split our army into 2 halves, and used one GG on a 2nd Medic unit, and settled the last one in Pi Ramesses, need the promotions on the front.
I popped a 2nd Artist as our next GP, parked him with our "pile".
I built some temples, theaters, etc in various cities, and also spread Islam to a few new cities, we still have 3 or 4 without it. Every city should have Islam and a Temple.
Heres some pics, self explanatory.
Spoiler:
Heres a pic of one of our stacks. They are pretty much identical, each 1-tile from being able to attack the heart of Asoka's land. Should be a quick war:
Spoiler:
So, to recap, I think we should look into another civic move, PS-Nat-Slavery-FM-Theo, draft/build/whip up some Rifles, and continue build an army + regarrison quickly. We have a LOT of cities, we can get 20+ drafted rifles out in no time. We may also want to cut our research off (we have 500+ beakers at 30% break even) to gather up some cash for upgrading our big Maces.
All in all, we are rock-solid here. We can probably win the game by my next set.
I got it, but I can't check the save right now. I'll look more closely when I get home, but do we really need Police State? That is high upkeep when we can ill afford it with trying to upgrade our elite units.
Draft is 1 pop for rifles right? Is it even worth it to be whipping troops? I don't recall what the efficiency is. We do probably need the whip for Toku-land buildings though.
I was going to argue against Theo, but then I realized that drafted units are 1/2 XP, so yeah, probably needed...
Being SPI means we can jump around at will. Slavery is strong with PS. Nat will give us unhappy faces, but Slaverys unhappiness is concurrent, not consecutive, so a timely whip here and there really boosts the speed.
I suggest swapping into the Military, piling up some unhappiness, then back to Rep, FS, Caste, and Paci or OR. This army will be all we need to take out Asoka completely, and see where we are for Dom. Doesnt have to be now though, if you want to build some, go for it. We have a big lead, a bit or vertical growth will help with the Draft and Whip, so no worries when we do it, although it should be sooner than later.
First thing I do is light up one of our Great Artists for the sweet 15 turn Golden Age. We're going to quickly have our 6th Great Person, so we could potentially have 45 years of uninterrupted Golden Age, if we wanted to, but the Engineer is probably better spent on a Wonder.
I muse over the civics changes, and I decide that Bleys' plan is the best, at least for winning as fast as possible, which is our objective here. So revolt as said to PS-Nat-Slavery-FM-Theo. This of course, kills our tech rate, so that needs fixing...
Time to do my tour through the cities.
Spoiler:
Thebes has 3 Priests hired, which would normally be great, except that Thebes has no need for Priests. There are a ton of tiles to work with the city only at size 12, so get on that posthaste. I note we are building lots of rifles here. That normally wouldn't be ideal for getting to the front, but we need the garrison replacement first. We'll make our fast units afterwards.
Memphis has 5 hired scientists and we are trying to build a bank... The bank won't be done my set unless I whip it (I may later), and it would've been better to build a market because we will need the health here to run specs. But I'll let it finish, checking back to whip.
Helio has hired scientists, which aren't doing much for it, so fire them. This is a production center. I see we are making missionaries for now. Not sure if that's a good idea, I'd rather make cav here, as we settled a general. But will let this one missionary finish first.
Elephantine is working on the FP, so juggle around to work plains tiles to finish it faster.
Alex is stagnant with a priest, while we could be working a plains hill. Nuff said.
Pi-Ram dialed a Bud Temple, but it seems we don't need one as the place is well entrenched with its own culture, and we are nowhere near the happy cap. This is a frontline city with major production potential, so dial rifles. Also seems we must find some food from somewhere.
Giza is looking less awful by the day. While still consisting of 1/2 dead tiles, at least we can work some forests now! Building a stable. Probably not the best investment for a frontline city, but whatever...
Ainu just needs workers, and the entire place will explode with productivity.
Gem city working on a customs house. Ok, well we are trading with people who we won't be killing for a while, so that's fine. Sacrifice a scientist to work a cottage.
Lisbon looks to be the Cav pump, but I'll probably build a few rifles here too. We fire all the priests, as tiles are better.
Lagos is still junk. We have copper, but still no food. I draft here to replace the axe garrison. Pathetic things... Of course, the hell hole has no barracks, so the rifle comes out with 1XP >.< Miscalculation on my part. Oh well, no one is ever going to be fighting over this anyways, and they can have it if they want it...
Evora set to grow next turn, building a market, will check back later...
Coimbra is similarly autopilot, with a library under construction. I draft it because it has relatively good growing time right now... Send the now detached CR2 Axe to the front, to be upgraded later...
Oporto is working on a bank, with some hammer issues. Really no opportunity to help this place out much without stopping growth, so I'll leave it.
Braga growth in 3, barracks in 5. Switch from coast to gold tile to make it growth in 5, barracks in 4. Then we can draft from here!
Tokyo set to grow in 2 turns, grocer under way but slow. This place is mostly farms, so that's unimportant, and I'll use it to draft.
Kyoto, growth in 1, it is size 3, we'll check back later.
Nara, growth in 3, also size 3. Seems we have no food here, and no granary either, so will have to go easy on the whip...
Osaka has rice, but there's no water to it. Luckily, we can get some from Kyoto through two otherwise dead cottages. Will mark... We lack basic infrastructure in this place, so will spend some time dealing with that.
Kagoshima has problems, but we can't do much to solve them. We have no culture buildings in this place, and we have to rely on the whip to get things outs. Needs those courts bad though... We'll babysit this town...
Satsuma is starving, so it's a no brainer 2 pop whip to finish the courthouse. We have the same problem here as Kagoshima though... And no food even to grow the city for whips...
I assume we just put Byblos down, sorry, wasn't reading too carefully. Hopefully it won't cost us too much in the long run...
Ok, well plenty of work for the workers to do, so let's get on to it.
Everything else looks alright for now, so whack enter.
1555AD (331):
Constitution rolls in as planned... Democracy in 11 Golden Years... We'll try to help that along.
Missionary done in Helio. Honestly, the need for Islam is past now, with everyone out of it. I assume we are still hanging onto religion for the XP bonus... Anyways, this city is miles away, so dial up cavs.
Lisbon Cav -> Cav, cavs getting shipped to the front... We also draft to replace garrison, as growth is in 1.
Satsuma Courts -> uh... Theatre... We need help here...
4 pop whip Tokyo's Grocer, and draft another rifle. Growth in 1.
1560AD (332):
Market done in Ainu, it defaults to an almost completed mosque...
Stable done in Giza, dial for rifles to help out our military buffing...
Tokyo grocer is done, it is back to 6 pop. Seems we'll need happiness, so dial a temple...
Kagoshima can finally whip the courthouse, so do it! Nara to whip next turn...
Elephantine can 3 pop whip the FP. I do it, because it means less maintenance sooner. Growth again next turn.
1565AD (333):
FP finishing saves us around 50gpt, good to go. Turn up the research to 50%.
Elephantine FP -> Rifle
Alexandria Cav -> Cav
Kagoshima Courts -> Theatre
Satsuma Theatre -> Obs
Nara 2 pop whipped to finish the courts.
1570AD (334):
Lagos the junk city finally finishes the library. Dial a temple for the extra hammer. This place is hurting THAT much...
Barracks done in Braga. This place lacks infrastructure overall... Dial a temple and draft a rifle as it is exactly 6 pop and about to grow again. Delete the redundant Pikeman.
Nara Courts done -> Granary
Gem City just grew, and it seems I missed that, so draft a rifle there.
1575AD (335):
Moving junk around this turn...
Lisbon Cav -> Cav
Coimbra Library -> Grocer (not worth building military in this hole)
Osaka Library -> uhh... lots of choices... Forge
Mansa is researching Physics now >.<. Luckily, Sci Meth completely trashed him. 18 turns for Physics.
Looks from the graphs like Fred's power has flatlined, yet he is not attacking anyone yet. Curious...
1580AD (336):
Mansa suddenly won't trade DR. He also got a Great Prophet. At the same time, Asoka finishes Versailles in Vijay... Right on the Khmer border, but only 1 city from their palace. An omen? Or a waste of resources.
Helio Cav -> Cav
Pi-Ram Rifle -> Rifle
Ainu Mosque -> Stable
Tokyo Temple -> Monastery
Evora and Osaka get drafted.
Pi-Ram grew, so it gets the final draft this turn.
1585AD (337):
Mansa will again trade DR, so I guess he started Versailles as Asoka finished it, lol. Oh, and he builds Sol's temple with the prophet.
Alex Cav -> Cav
Evora Market -> Stable
Draft Oporto and Ainu.
Mansa clearly is having issues, as Physics is now in 169 turns O.o
2 pop whip Osaka's forge.
1590AD (338):
Fred goes to Free Market.
Rifle done in Thebes... Local garrison is filled out so dial for Cavs...
Giza Rifle -> Rifle
Osaka Forge -> Temple in 1 turn
1595AD (339):
Finally hook up Osaka's irrigation. The place is now online and growing faster.
Helio Cav -> Cav
Ainu Stable -> Cav
Lisbon Cav -> Cav
Kyoto Library -> Temple. Tempted to draft, but this city is growing nicely with great production.
Osaka Temple -> Market
Satsuma Obs -> uhh... Library...
Fred got Democracy this turn, ugh.
1600AD (340):
Demo comes in... We have 4 choices, DR, Corp, Astro, or Chem. Chem, IMO wins, because we need steel for cannons.
Cav done in Thebes -> SoL in TWENTY turns. Recommend burning the engineer if we want it bad.
Gem City done Customs House. Dial a rifle.
Lagos done temple, dial a barracks.
Just noticed that Fred is no longer in WHEOOH mode... Uh oh.
Ok, well take a look at this...
We can bribe both these guys to dogpile Sury, taking Mansa into the fight as well. The cash from Asoka gets us 6 maces -> rifles, more than enough for our core CR group on top of what we have.
I'm not sure if the AIs will be persuaded to go to war for less if the AI in question is already being dogpiled. I recall reading that somewhere, but I'm not sure. Since Asoka is paying us all his gold, I'd send him in first, and then see if Fred will go in for less (I'd rather not pay him because the cash is better used by us for upgrades.
Once they are at war, we wait like 5 turns or so for them to wipe of each other's armies (devious ), and then we hit Asoka. We are pretty much mobilized the way we are, although I completely neglected jails...
Roster
GatlingGun
Bleys
S.ilver <-- Just Played --
grandad1982 >> Up Now <<
Jkaen <-- On Deck --
Uh... let's see... Hmm... Maybe we're still a bit far off after all. Cuirs -> Cavs is only 65 gold each IIRC, but the rest of our forces are maces -> rifles at 200 gold each. I also don't relish the thought of attacking with Trebs... But it's probably doable given our current power lead, if we set the AIs loose upon each other to destroy their armies...
I guess we could also light up the artist/prophet (make sure to rush the SoL using the engineer so he is not used by accident), and ride out 20 more turns of Golden Age to build up before we attack.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
. If this was a personal game, I probably would've panicked into doing something foolish earlier, seeing the tech lead that Mansa has on us (even though he's a vassal!). I posses the utter inability to properly asses a non-military situation. When at peace, all I can think about is the AI running away with things.
(epic speed) as it means you get most of a worker free to go with your settler pod (usually only a couple of turns after the whip of the settler).
and this is great for a building that every city will have and is availibly pretty early on. Its nice synergy with EXP as you can get larger cities early.
), and then we hit Asoka. We are pretty much mobilized the way we are, although I completely neglected jails...
