Nero04: Skipping some levels? It's training day

[nerovats]

In despo food over 2 is cut down 1. Irrigated grass would give 3 so only gives 1, FP+wheat unworked gives 4, so in despo just 3. Forest with dear gives 3 so in despo just 2.

Declaring after is there´s no more room is usually a bit late. If you catch the ai in expansion mode, they will only have have the units. If there´s no more room they´re most likely preparing to take more land by force and thus get stronger.

Vikings will not get beserks until the MA, should be save for now. They might be our first target. Or we can try and keep peace.

 

[BeefBayford]

Points taken Nero. I think a war would be good, it would give us all a valuable lesson in warfare. The Vikings should definitely be our first target, I tend to think there are more civs on our continent, seems feasible to assume that, but we'll have to see.

 

[nerovats]

Got the save, will play tomorrow morning.
Let me know what direction you think I should go.

Forgot about this, but I think there are enough pointers in the last page .
Just quick pointers: As we´ll go to space we need science not neccesarily war. Vikings have very powerfull UU, we must make sure they won´t be a threat. I think they need iron for their UU (not sure) so, make sure they got none. Discover the dark, make friends to trade with.

What I did in my save was:
min research on writing, then max on lit, CoL, and now Republic. Traded for techs not units, if I traded to 1 of the AI I also sell to the other, otherwise they trade between them. Was able to get MM for CoL + gold, and traded for world maps. Got more then my gold back from the other AI, by selling the techs. Because of research at max I was losing money, but the monopolies made sure I could sell and thus get more gold then I lost in the first place.

Made sure I first improved the lands next to the rivers, to get even more commerce. Got 4 warriors then rax and only archers after. New cities will build warrior, worker, rax, or more workers. Kept cities to their use. After setting Madrid up as SF I did not build warriors there just settlers. As happines will be a problem as Barca (and eventually other cities as well) will grow, decided to move towards incense first. When connected we´ll be ok with cities at max pop of 6.

Didn´t bother about the barbs too much, had to take a detour on ocasion, but no real problem accept losing a rax 1 turn short of completion. Now got some vet archers to hunt barbs down, and make this side of the world a peacefull place.

I continued this game until I met everyone else, will post that when the team get´s that far. Will start playing from teams 1000BC save to see how you´ll do next.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Something came up with my job, so I wasn't able to play yesterday.
I won't be able to play until Friday. So, if you have to skip me, that's fine.

 

[truckster]

Sorry about the delay, but my time is not my own' lately. I won't have much time to be fair to the others, working a lot of mandatory overtime. If you don't mind, I'll just look in every now and then to learn whatever I can. This real life is cutting into my playing time.

 

[nerovats]

Question

Would you like me to tell what tactic I would use in advance or keep a bit vague and tell after playing. Just played the teams save until contacting everyone and used different strat then in my own save, so wonderd what team would like. Objective of this game is to make you guys confident emperor players so please tell how you think you'll learn most.

 

[BeefBayford]

Just telling us what we're doing wrong would be best. If you tell us what to do it's just like us taking orders and doing them, rather than thinking about the situation and trying to find the best solution. So in my opinion just give us some little clues before play and then see if we get it right or wrong, and then explain what you would've done

 

[CommandoBob]

Question

Would you like me to tell what tactic I would use in advance or keep a bit vague and tell after playing.

Don't tell us the 'right' answer. Let us figure it out on our own. Ask us questions to get us thinking along the right lines and let us respond back to you and each other.

We are slowly beginning to plan our future. I think that questions that help us focus on the future will help us best. Questions such as 'What should be our next three techs and why?' or 'Where should we build the next six cities?' or 'What two cities should get the first libraries?'.

Most of our discussion to this point has ended up being short term. We have discussed many 'next things'; next city, next tech, next build order, etc. We have not discussed 'the next 4 things'.

 

[nerovats]

Alright, here we go:

Which cities will be the next 3 or 4? After some more exploring we should draw up another dotmap.

We still have a monopoly on lit, what should we do with it, trade or keep?

We haven´t discussed wonder building. Which are usefull for our case, which should we and shouldn´t we build (also at least for Medieval age).

We are down a bit in techs, how to procede. Peace and build, war, combination? We don´t have to be technologically advanced all the way, we just want to be the first reaching for the stars.

When going to war whom to attack, do want allies? Since playing with honor, if we sign an aliance we can´t make peace for 20 turns. I checked the civilopedia, beserks have no pre-req, and replace longbows.

What should be our sighest priority be for the nex turnset(s)?

Which techs (also MA) will most likely give a monopoly. Which techs are usefull, so which to aim for?

Which gov should we take, republic would now give us about 40gpt unit cost, but also more commerce. Monarch will support a large number of units, but less commerce. Will we want to change gov in the future again? Communism, Democracy?

 

[CommandoBob]

Which cities will be the next 3 or 4? After some more exploring we should draw up another dotmap.

On Cities

(My thoughts)

First city: Yellow 2.
Second city: Incense City, for our good and so others do not get it.

And I flip-flop with the idea of sending a settler/warrior party to make Incense City before we start Yellow 2 just because of the distance to Incense City. This would have both cities created at close to the same time.

While I think we need to establish some southern cities (see Post #194 for more details) I think we need to finish out our core ring 1 cities before we do that. There are good city sites to the south and southwest and we need to get there first.

On the other questions
Hmm. That is a lot to think about. But it does need to be thought over and discussed. Will have to post later on those.

 

[CommandoBob]

What should be our sighest priority be for the nex turnset(s)?

Settler production and land grabbing. Even now land is still cheap. And to get to space we will need a lot of cities and now is the time to get them, without warfare. More cites means a larger empire and a better chance of strategic resources such as coal, aluminum and uranium, which like to appear in remote, mountainous areas.

Lake Barcelona should be Spanish only! Let the Orange and Purple find their own drinking water.

If those are flood plains on the south end of Lake Barcelona, I would like to consider the idea of having a second settler factory down there. This would let new settlers get to their new homes faster.

More cities will allow more science and faster techs.

We need to consider where to place the Forbidden Palace, a small wonder. If we had a great leader I would use him to rush the FP. The bad thing about the FP is that it takes a long time to build in a far off city, unless we build it in Rome and then take a Palace Jump.

During our actual turns, I think we need to focus on making cities and growing settlers. Expand our borders untill we meet our neighbors and then backfill to prevent them from sneakily planting a city inside the obvious Spanish Empire.

Between turnsets, we need to decide how to get to space while we only have 'stone knives and bearskin rugs', to quote a Vulcan I know of. This means talking about the order we research our techs, the wonders we build for our use (or maybe so no one else can use them, which could be another Chieftian habit to break), our next government, etc.

 

[CommandoBob]

Turns 6-10 complete, here's how it went:...
8) 1050BC
Madrid; Settler->Settler
Ivory City; Worker->Spearman?!
Barcelona switches from Archer to Swordsman. Settler heads towards incense.
...
CoL in 7, $31-2gpt.
I was planning on settling the white spot on the following screenshot. (All screenshots courtesy of Screen Hunter

A question of information. Do you have this settler planned for Incense City or White Dot? In turn 8 you have the settler heading towards incense and then after the turnset you mention the white dot. So I am .

 

[nerovats]

It´s not a must to have loads of cities, turning citizens into scientists isn´t as good as it is in conquest. 10 cities or so with loads of commerce will do the trick too. There are several ways to get those. This probably should influence our research order.

FP is a good point, rushing it will need a leader. Getting a leader means war. War does not mean getting a leader. I´ve played games having at the very least 100 elite wins but never got a leader. Is it worth the risk, or should we build it closer? Please include this location in a dotmap.

Where should this settler go, white dot or incense?

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

I think we need to settle first at the white dot, then send the second settler to the incense. That way, it will make it faster to build roads to bring that incense to our capital.

 

[CommandoBob]

Where should this settler go, white dot or incense?

If we can protect this settler with a warrior, send him to the incense so that we can be sure we have it. Madrid will produce a settler in 4 turns and it could build White Dot City.

If we cannot protect the settler, then head to the white dot.

I do not want to risk an unprotected settler that far east. I cannot tell from the last screenshot, but I remember a barbarian camp being 2 or 3 tiles from the incense.

@Hawk Chieftain: We have not played any more turns, so you are still at-bat.

 

[nerovats]

Actually I don't even agree with the location of the white dot.

 

[CommandoBob]

We haven´t discussed wonder building. Which are usefull for our case, which should we and shouldn´t we build (also at least for Medieval age).

I do not have Wonder Addiction. I have tried to build as few wonders as possible and let the AI have the rest. What this also means is that I am probably unaware of some wonders that could help us.

With that thought in mind, here goes:

The first wonder that I think of that would help us would Smith's Trading Co. because it removes the upkeep to our commerical buildings. I do not think we build them any cheaper since we are a Commercial Civ. This wonder is available when we learn Economics, in the Late Middle Ages, so it is a long time away.

The second wonder I would consider getting would be Leonardo's Workshop. This is a defensive build. I want it so that no other civ has it. It is available with Invention, fairly early in the MA.

And I feel the same way about the Art of War, but not as strongly.

In later years the Hoover Dam is a no-brainer since it helps in production.

And in a defensive build, I would suggest the United Nations, just to be sure that there is never a vote on world leader.

 

[nerovats]

I think you missed out on some wonders.
Most people seem to fall in 2 catagories, wonder addicted, and people who never build a wonder. Wonders are usefull just pick the ones usefull for your quest, ours is a science game...
UN will make sure we won't win or lose by vote, always nice to have.

 

[azzaman333]

I've found that the Sistene Chapel is very useful for games where we will be aiming for a late victory. Even though it means building temples to get the cathedrals, they can be temp (if we choose). Also, ToE is a no-brainer. Iwas thinking about Shakespear's, but the i remembered that it isnt a hospital in PTW. The Hanging Gardens would also be useful if we get an opertunity.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Finally, I can play.
Pre-flight: Switch Ivory City & Salamanca to archers
Trade Lit to English for Masonry, World Map, & 50 gold.
Trade Lit to Vikings for World Map & 80 gold (they wouldn't trade Map Making or Horse Back Riding)
Looking at the map, there are only 3 civs on this island. Vikings & English have Iron, and are probably making Swordsman. English have 4 incense & 1 Ivory, and Vikings have 5 Dyes. There is only 1 Horse on this island.
Turn 1- Barb shows near Seville, move Worker in Seville.
Move Warrior/Settler stack S.
Move to 1.3.6 so Madrid won't riot.
Turn 2- Barcelona- Swordsman/Swordsman (6 turns)
Toledo- Barracks/Swordsman (15 turns)
Persians complete The Colossus
Turn 3- Vikings beat me to a Barb village
English are building The Great Library
Madrid- Settler/Settler (6 turns)
Turn 4- Seville- Worker/Granary (30 turns) We have 8 workers right now.
Warrior/Settler stack move closer to Incense
Move Swordsman to protect Settler that Madrid built last turn
Turn 5- Move to 1.4.5
Archer kills Barb near Toledo
Persians build The Pyramids
Turn 6- Warrior/Settler stack meet final destination
Swordsman/Settler stack move SE next to Seville
Workers start road toward Incense
Turn 7- Ivory City- Archer/Swordsman (10 turns)
Valencia founded- build Barracks (40 turns). Could be a pre-build.
Turn 8- Madrid- Settler/Settler (6 turns)
Barcelona- Swordsman/Swordsman (6 turns)
Turn 9- Salamanca- Archer/Swordsman (10 turns)
Move Swordsman & Settler into Toledo so they can stack together
Turn 10- Workers move into Seville away from Barb
Zaragoza founded- build Barracks (40 turns)
End of turn set
750BC
158 Gold -3gpt
Code of Laws in 2 turns
9 cities
Units: 1 Settler
8 Workers
9 Warriors
3 Archers
2 Swordsman
We are behind the Vikings & English with Mysticism, HBR, & Map Making. None of them know Math or Philo.