NES World/Regional Maps Requests Thread

[Thlayli]

As a general question, do people think it's a good idea to have the map "zoomed-in" during a time period where only a portion of the map is relevant?

It seems like blown up maps would increase level of detail, generally a good thing, especially since it allows smaller nations to be logistically visible. This seems particularly relevant in the Middle Ages, when you have free cities, feudals and hundreds of other minor powers squabbling for dominance. It's just impossible to cram them into a normal sized map of Europe.

Another example might be Venice, whose Italian holdings and colonial territories are rarely executed accurately. Even the smallest "enclave" that can be drawn on a traditional world map is still larger than it should technically be. It also seems that larger maps are better for military planning and detail, especially if accurate geographic features are superimposed or included on an alternate map, something that's difficult to do on a traditional size.

I know that Symphony has created several maps larger than the traditional 1:1 scale, but we haven't yet seen many NESes operating on a continental scale or greater that have used them, yet. Would it be a good idea to experiment?

 

[Symphony D.]

I know that Symphony has created several maps larger than the traditional 1:1 scale

I refuse to let this garbage stand. The traditional map isn't 1:1. It isn't 1:anything. It isn't Robinson. It isn't any projection. It isn't equal-area, conformal, or even remotely accurate by any possible measurement. It is blobs that just happen to look familiar. So are ink blots. Even North King said so. Do not treat it as any sort of benchmark or suffer further my ire!

but we haven't yet seen many NESes operating on a continental scale or greater that have used them, yet. Would it be a good idea to experiment?

This entire post seems really self-evident. My only remark is that the blank maps in the "Blank Maps Thread" that lead to that one forum are generally too small (with a few exceptions). Using the same tool they did but for a larger resolution would be better. You could even do Lambert Azimuthal to match the North America map I made.

Of course, you're mostly all lazy punks, so for all possible talk to the contrary I don't expect any of you to actually bother, and I won't be helping either way unless it's just making it look good (in my style, of course--that doesn't take very long). Yes, this is a challenge; prove me wrong.

 

[Thlayli]

Uh, I was more referring to the scale of a traditional world map, but you could interpret it that way.

 

[Symphony D.]

Uh, I was more referring to the scale of a traditional world map, but you could interpret it that way.

Your statement makes no sense to any capacity unless "The Old Standard" is being assumed as a default size ("1"), to which other things are compared which is stupid, since it isn't scaled to anything at all, making comparisons to it irrelevant, not that they could easily be made anyway (as it isn't accurate either!). It could be ballparked somewhere around 1:45,000,000 - 1:55,000,000 but having a variation of about 10,000,000 is kinda silly, and it remains impossible to compare due to its horrid accuracy. Eyeballing things is for engineers and plebians. It'd be easier to just say "It'sa bigga'un!"

The only other possible, vaguely sensible interpretation of that statement is that it's accurate on a 1:1 ratio with the the physical world, which it certainly isn't.

 

[Thlayli]

That's okay, I'll eagerly accept plebianism if we can return to the topic. The main question is, would any mod be willing/insane enough to take on a magnified map, and all the implications of magnified work that come along with it?

 

[Symphony D.]

You don't get off that easily, because that's a damned fool question instead of a damned fool statement. I want to say first that I like and endorse the idea. With that out of the way, onto criticism of the proposal:

I can't say you're all completely lazy, or else nobody would be here at all, but I will say you as a group are too content with the status quo and not terribly ambitious, which is personally amusing considering the nature of what it is we do here.

I submit as proof the number of people contributing to my project compared to the total number of people available. The only reason that project is progressing is because I am kicking, dragging, pushing, and screaming at it at intermittent intervals. I am forcing it on the rest of you. The progress of the Wiki is/was more or less the same. As is every experience I've had at generating rules in public. Why? Because most of the rest of you don't have the will, desire, tools, perception of need, time, so on, or some combination thereof to do it yourselves or add to it.

So, you inquire as to whether somebody--an undefined somebody, for undefined reasons--would just go do this on their own, for no real net gain (as particular users will probably want different regions, Europe admittedly being most popular, but none near as universally applicable as a world map). I think the record of this place speaks for itself in saying "No," and that whoever does so, if anybody at all, will just pilfer the maps from aforementioned alt-hist forum, much like how most of the time when somebody is in a pinch for rules they just take das's and modify them a little bit for their own needs.

This probably sounds condescending and haughty. It probably is. But it's also experimentally remarkably realistic.

In summary: don't count on it unless some sort of consortium is formed to share workload, or a rather strong and competent personality takes on the project. I've never seen the former and most of the latter seem to have their own agendas.

 

[Birdjaguar]

That's okay, I'll eagerly accept plebianism if we can return to the topic. The main question is, would any mod be willing/insane enough to take on a magnified map, and all the implications of magnified work that come along with it?

A magnified map would certainly show more detail. Such a map would have been "useful" in BirdNES to show the wars and such in Germany. For that it is a good idea and now the "but"... The usefulness would have to be accompanied by more detail in the narrative. The story behind a more detailed map needs an enhanced description of the action. In a big complicated update, adding such detail can be difficult and time consuming.

EDIT: After reading Sym's post, I would envision only using specific areas in "magnification" to better show complex geographies.

 

[Silver Steak]

NESing is already struggling with trying to be realistic - which it ultimately isn't. We don't need a magnifying lens to see that.

 

[stalin006]

map

it has some pecularities, but i wont explain them since i changed my mind on the whole thing.

 

[Shadowbound]

Does anyone have a map of the world in 1830, or ten years or so before or after?

 

[Angst]

Carribean sea, ~1700ish?? (Including St Thomas under Denmark )

 

[Terrance888]

ok.... I need a map in my senerio "the Central Valley" All I need is a valley with a huge lake. And a water outlet into the unknown (sea) covered by 2 mountains (how to make mountains?) Surrounded by a Bitter Northlands and the Abmissal Southern jungal... and also a small atom-hold of civilization in Cradle 2, on the other side of the Unknown Sea on a small, riverdominated Isle. Then do a Fog of War... Thanks

 

[das]

Would it be possible to add some more historically-significant rivers to Symphony's blank world map without compromising its accuracy?

 

[Symphony D.]

Would it be possible to add some more historically-significant rivers to Symphony's blank world map without compromising its accuracy?

Possible? Yes. Doing it accurately? Ideally you'd want as much data on the map as possible (like borders and cities) to aide in drawing them (unless you want to find some GIS datasets and tell me how to use them...), preferably in some different color. Then you could use layers to cut and paste them onto a blank map and recolor them. It'd take some time and someone willing to stare at an atlas.

 

[das]

Presumably (given the posts further up this page) you are not too willing. Ah well, I just might have the time (and atlases) to do some of this myself. We'll see.

As a sidenote, Thlayli's idea likewise has merit. For the record, if anybody here is suffering from an excess of altruism and/or workaholism, I might have some use for a "blown-up" map of the Middle East/Fertile Crescent at some point in indeterminate future.

 

[Symphony D.]

Presumably (given the posts further up this page) you are not too willing. Ah well, I just might have the time (and atlases) to do some of this myself. We'll see.

I'm already doing (and have done) quite a bit more than any of you would have the right to ask me to do (because as I've stated several times, I'm doing it for myself, but I digress).

Anyway, presumably you will want to wait until the city map is completed then if you want to have a fair shake at it, particularly as size and curvature will be different. Speaking of which, the Russian city list needs to be verified by one more person...

 

[das]

Fair enough. That thread looks suspiciously inactive, though.

 

[Symphony D.]

Fair enough. That thread looks suspiciously inactive, though.

Only large entries are left, I'm the only one who really has the drive to do them, I just completed finals, and my interests have been cycling back and forth between NES and my Xbox 360. You have various things you may direct blame towards, based on your personal agenda.

 

[Luckymoose]

Only large entries are left, I'm the only one who really has the drive to do them, I just completed finals, and my interests have been cycling back and forth between NES and my Xbox 360. You have various things you may direct blame towards, based on your personal agenda.

You and me both.

 

[Symphony D.]

Something of a teaser. You're warned that it's a bit large.The background color is mostly trivial; I'm aware it repeats yellow before the transition to aqua, and only uses gray for everything above a certain elevation.

"What makes this special?" Several things, but look closely at the contour lines.