NES2 VI - Last Semblance of Order.

[alex994]

That's not a compromise at all swiss, as it will permanently make Sennar weaker then Abyssinia as well as the ruler of Sennar losing massive amounts of prestige and the confidence of the people. The Ottomans and Sennar want peace but on their terms The same is with Abyssina, let them fight it out.

 

[Swissempire]

That's not a compromise at all swiss, as it will permanently make Sennar weaker then Abyssinia as well as the ruler of Sennar losing massive amounts of prestige and the confidence of the people. The Ottomans and Sennar want peace but on their terms The same is with Abyssina, let them fight it out.

Sennar already is and was always permanently weaker. If the the Sennarese and more importantly the Ottomans truly want peace, they would recognize this.

 

[Dachs]

That's a rather cynical view, Swiss.

 

[alex994]

Sennar already is and was always permanently weaker. If the the Sennarese and more importantly the Ottomans truly want peace, they would recognize this.

Yes, but the Ottomans don't want peace and the price of weakening the Sennarese even weaker "The pen, is not always stronger then the sword"

 

[Swissempire]

But if you stick the pen in the jugular

 

[Dachs]

Yes, but the Ottomans don't want peace and the price of weakening the Sennarese even weaker

Actually, I don't think that it's that big of a deal to the Ottomans if Sennar is weaker, because Abyssinia will never be powerful enough to take on the Ottomans anyway, and removing Sennar's ability to make war effectively while creating them into a buffer nation to absorb any possible Abyssinian assault isn't so bad for the Ottomans after all.

Why are you fooling around with other nations, person-who-is-no-longer-China?

 

[Swissempire]

That's a rather cynical view, Swiss.

Not really, Abyssinia has twice the troops, already did, and has fought TWO successful wars AGIANST Sennar.

Economy
Sennars Economy=Normal
Abyssinia's=Good ENough

Military
Sennar=9 Divisons
Abyssinia=30 divisions total, plus two divisions of the navy

Everything Else=

Sennar:
Infrastructure: Pathetic
Education: Illiterate
Living Standards: Low
Culture: Untrusting
Confidence: Barely Tolerating

Abyssinia:
Infrastructure: Barely Tolerable
Education: Educated
Living Standards: Low
Culture: Devoted
Confidence: Resentful

THE ONLY THING SENNAR is beating them in is in confidence, and i don't know why that is, because the Emperor is fighting a victorious war, makes brilliant speechs...

Why is that Das?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Actually, I don't think that it's that big of a deal to the Ottomans if Sennar is weaker, because Abyssinia will never be powerful enough to take on the Ottomans anyway, and removing Sennar's ability to make war effectively while creating them into a buffer nation to absorb any possible Abyssinian assault isn't so bad for the Ottomans after all.

I don't mind a weaker Sennar, as long as the Muslims aren't under the yoke of Christians, and vice-versa. The Ottomans have abandoned their Christian-majority holdings, albeit forcibly. The Abyssinians can do the same. In my peace treaty proposal, I offered a section that would solve the religion-fueled land conflict.

 

[Swissempire]

But displacement never works if its both ways. By allowing Abyssinia its land, then allowing Muslims to leave if they so choose, then you can reach a deal.

 

[Swissempire]

Das, i give up on Europe. I just want a nations free, so i'm taking

Empire of Kanem-Bornu
Capital: Birni-Gazargamu
Ruler: ?
Government: Absolute Monarchy
Centralization: Tight Federation
Tech. Level: Late Enlightened Age
Army (Training): 25 divisions (Semi-Rabble)
Navy (Training): None yet
Economy: Good Enough (+2)
Size (points required): Small (1)
Leadership (Military/Civilian): Barely Tolerable/Barely Tolerable
Infrastructure: Good
Education: Educated
Living Standards: Tolerable
Culture: Strongly Cultured
Confidence: Barely Tolerating
Projects:
Nation Background: Once, Bornu was but a part of the greater empire of Kanem. Now, the situation is reversed, and has been reversed for centuries now - time goes slow here in Africa. But Kanem-Bornu still did change with time - since the great days of Mai (Emperor) Idris Alawma, it has shrunken in size, stagnated and weakened, and is now even more threatened by surrounding barbarians than ever before.

 

[alex994]

But displacement never works if its both ways. By allowing Abyssinia its land, then allowing Muslims to leave if they so choose, then you can reach a deal.

You're hopeless swiss How many do you think will leave? Willingly that is. There is a reason panda was able to manipulate and betray you so easily you kow Aside from him being a scheming Francophile that is

 

[Azale]

The Holy League of Italy will not allow the Christian state of Abyssinia to be overrun by the savages in Sennar, if by some odd turn of fate that begins to occur. Let it be known.

 

[Dachs]

IThe Ottomans have abandoned their Christian-majority holdings, albeit forcibly.

OOC: No, you haven't. That particular bone of contention is, however, for another time, another place.

In my peace treaty proposal, I offered a section that would solve the religion-fueled land conflict.

Actually, all that it will do is make the Christians angry that you stole their land again, and this time you're making them leave, too.

 

[Swissempire]

Das, how many of the people of Kanem-Bornu have been converted by the Portugeuse?

and

To: Sennar and Abyssinia
From: Kanem-Bornu

We hope you may end your conflict without resorting to call on foreign powers. Africa is for the Africans.

and

To: Portugal
From: Kanem-Bornu

Would you allow us to purchase your land on the Niger. Name a price. We would only buy up to the traditional coastal holdings of Portugal

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Please, don't get into this. The Ottoman Empire has no plans of 'overrunning' Abyssinia. It only wishes for the state of Sennar to be preserved.

Edit: lol, speaking to Azale there. Darn crossposts.

 

[Azale]

To: Sennar and Abyssinia
From: Kanem-Bornu

We hope you may end your conflict without resorting to call on foreign powers. Africa is for the Africans.

Correction, Africa is for the Portuguese.

From: Pope Leo XII
To: Ottoman Empire

We will...get into this...if we choose too, Sultan. We have an obligation to at least diplomatically support the Abyssinians at this time. I never said I would support them directly vs. Sennar if they are winning, only that I would ensure Abyssinia as a free nation would not be threatened.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

OOC: , unfortunately, that's fairly true.

 

[Insane_Panda]

The Ottoman Empire is an ally of France. Just thought I'd let that be known before people threaten it.

On the other hand, the Papal States and Byzantium are allies too, but we care more about Turkey than we do about some Abysinnians or Sennarese.

We wont involve ourselves into this conflict unless it spirals out of control, but we urge that a settlement is made peacefully.

 

[Azale]

The Holy League recognizes that the Ottoman Empire is an ally with France, hence why we have made zero moves towards the Ottomans directly. We have no plans to do anything agaisnt them in the future either...

 

[Kentharu]

i vote peace!