On a clean install of 5, I have mixed experiences - usually still more room to expand than I recall from last year's sessions, but still sufficient border tensions to make me think twice about settling too wide.
I like religions, and usually building Monument -> Stonehenge on King secures a good pantheon and a religion (free pantheon, shrine and council, plus some culture and engineer points!). Not sure whether that would work on a huge map / with many AIs ( >8) though.
Yup this is about the only reliable way to do it in my experience, but I don't want to be forced into Stonehenge just to get a religion. My gut feeling though is that if the human player or AI misses a religion and they aren't a warmonger, they've already lost the game. I don't like that when, on a huge map with 16 AI, that heavily penalizes half the players. I'm honestly not sure it's to anyone's benefit that there be fewer religions to found than players honestly. Does anyone know why that reasoning might make sense?
My viewpoint on that has been changing over time. Yes you lose a lot of benefits for religion, but I find the AI likes to spread aggressively, and often I will have AIs fighting over me all game, giving me a number of religious buildings. Further, when you share a religion the AI is often much friendly to you. And lastly, it enables more GP buying during Industrial.
I'm not saying getting a religion is very useful, but I've won several games on Immortal not having ever gotten one (and not just through raw conquest).
My viewpoint on that has been changing over time. Yes you lose a lot of benefits for religion, but I find the AI likes to spread aggressively, and often I will have AIs fighting over me all game, giving me a number of religious buildings. Further, when you share a religion the AI is often much friendly to you. And lastly, it enables more GP buying during Industrial.
I'm not saying getting a religion is very useful, but I've won several games on Immortal not having ever gotten one (and not just through raw conquest).
Yup this is about the only reliable way to do it in my experience, but I don't want to be forced into Stonehenge just to get a religion. My gut feeling though is that if the human player or AI misses a religion and they aren't a warmonger, they've already lost the game. I don't like that when, on a huge map with 16 AI, that heavily penalizes half the players. I'm honestly not sure it's to anyone's benefit that there be fewer religions to found than players honestly. Does anyone know why that reasoning might make sense?
I do love going the Stonehenge route--if you have lux that require construction or calendar then it's almost a no-brainer--but it always feels a little subopitmal if you don't use it to take Goddess of Beauty. Do people find it really worth it to rush stonehenge then just turn around and use it on a non-wonder/ culture/ GE synergistic pantheon?
Random note, did Morocco ever have a coastal start bias? They just spawned dead-center in a very large blocky continent in my current game and that feels like a bummer given their UB's coastal bonuses.
Random note, did Morocco ever have a coastal start bias? They just spawned dead-center in a very large blocky continent in my current game and that feels like a bummer given their UB's coastal bonuses.
The UB's coastal bonus is there mostly to compensate for how you lose placement opportunities for your UI if you settle on coast. They didn't used to have yields to coast, so players avoided coast so they could build more Kasbahs, but that was at odds with their Trade Route bonuses
The UB's coastal bonus is there mostly to compensate for how you lose placement opportunities for your UI if you settle on coast. They didn't used to have yields to coast, so players avoided coast so they could build more Kasbahs, but that was at odds with their Trade Route bonuses
I get a lot of CTD's with this 2/4-hotfix 5 version. Turn 31 in my game and have had one every ~5 turns or so. It seems to happen randomly (turn over, move unit, ...). Anyone else experiencing this?
I use a lot of other mods but none of these have been updated since my last game.
\Skodkim
PS: I didn't do a clean install before applying the hotfix. Could that be the cause?
I get a lot of CTD's with this 2/4-hotfix 5 version. Turn 31 in my game and have had one every ~5 turns or so. It seems to happen randomly (turn over, move unit, ...). Anyone else experiencing this?
I use a lot of other mods but none of these have been updated since my last game.
\Skodkim
PS: I didn't do a clean install before applying the hotfix. Could that be the cause?
I have had no problems, but then I always do a clean install whenever I download a new version or even hotfix. I have learnt the hardway if you don't do this things start getting corrupted.
I do love going the Stonehenge route--if you have lux that require construction or calendar then it's almost a no-brainer--but it always feels a little subopitmal if you don't use it to take Goddess of Beauty. Do people find it really worth it to rush stonehenge then just turn around and use it on a non-wonder/ culture/ GE synergistic pantheon?
Goddess of Beauty isn't the only use for Stonehenge. Other good uses include:
securing a pantheon that is highly favored by your civ (e.g. Goddess of Protection for Japan, Goddess of Wisdom for Babylon);
having an actual chance at founding with a low faith pantheon (e.g. God-King, Goddess of Festivals, Tutelary Gods);
founding faster to secure a Founder belief that is highly favored by your civ (e.g. Divine Inheritance for Egypt, Theocratic Rule for Brazil);
Also remember that Goddess of Beauty doesn't provide non-faith yields directly. Other pantheons can give you a much stronger start, especially low faith ones, with Stonehenge mitigating their low faith output. Coupled with the efficient production usage of Stonehenge for its yields and free council, you can use the wonder to have a solid start with civs that have no early bonuses.
I have had no problems, but then I always do a clean install whenever I download a new version or even hotfix. I have learnt the hardway if you don't do this things start getting corrupted.
Just did a clean install and I see no differences in the game files whatsoever compared to what I was using in the game (did a backup first and used Winmerge to compare). To be safe I also deleted cache. Nonetheless I loaded the game and it crashes again on the first turnover.
Just did a clean install and I see no differences in the game files whatsoever compared to what I was using in the game (did a backup first and used Winmerge to compare). To be safe I also deleted cache. Nonetheless I loaded the game and it crashes again on the first turnover.
Most of this might not be neccesary, but when using new version I delete cache; logs; mods (I only use basic VP ones & Infoaddict anyway, & any mods you just tick again when restrating game); moduserdata folders plus UI one in Steam. At least this way I can remove most of the problems. Your problem maybe using an old save with new version.
It seems another player has been performing frequent advanced actions against you recently. May I suggest a counter-spy? You wouldn't want any of your Great Works to be stolen next.
Just did a clean install and I see no differences in the game files whatsoever compared to what I was using in the game (did a backup first and used Winmerge to compare). To be safe I also deleted cache. Nonetheless I loaded the game and it crashes again on the first turnover.
\Skodkim
I would look at your other mods, especially if they haven't been updated in a while.
Whilst it is generally good practice to do a clean install of VP, I just overwrite the old installation when hotfixes roll out and delete the cache.
Most of this might not be neccesary, but when using new version I delete cache; logs; mods (I only use basic VP ones & Infoaddict anyway, & any mods you just tick again when restrating game); moduserdata folders plus UI one in Steam. At least this way I can remove most of the problems. Your problem maybe using an old save with new version.
Well, I'm kind of upset, and I'm posting this because I am starting to think something isn't right regarding early faith gain.
I played Indonesia and I got the Springtime Pantheon (it took many restarts to get it). I started with oranges as my resource, I built Stonehenge (barely, someone *started* building it 5 turns before I was going to finish, after I had invested, and was going to win it 1 turn ahead of me. I had just enough hills nearby to edge out an extra turn by buying and working tiles), I built a shrine as second building in my first city and first building in all others, and prioritized construction of Plantations and Herbalists. I missed founding the last religion by 1 turn, and several were founded much earlier. Look how early these other civs are founding, even civs like Poland and The Huns who have no early religion boosters.
Side note: I do not think the Celt's religion should count against the 7 allowed in the world, since they can always found and do not pull from the common pools of founder and follower options.
Epic, Huge, Emperor, 16 civs. I am playing with 4 UU/UA, but this pattern of founding has been typical in prior recent games without that mod.
Me: Would have been able to found on turn 154. Pantheon: Goddess of Springtime: +1 faith from plantations, +2 faith from Herbalists. Stonehenge: +2 faith. Progress.
Unknown Civ: Turn 152 Zorastrianism. God of Craftsman. +1 faith from Quarries and Stone Works, +2 faith from the Palace.
The Huns: Turn 147 Tengriism. Pantheon: God of All Creation. +1 faith from monuments. Authority.
Unknown Civ: Turn 143 Dodekatheism. Pantheon: God of the Open Sky. +1 faith per 2 worked plains or grassland, +1 faith from pastures.
Polynesia: Turn 131 Puata Tupuna. Pantheon: God of the Expanse. +25% border Growth, 20 faith on border expansion scaling with game speed. Progress.
Poland: Turn 128 Catholicism. Pantheon: Ancestor Worship. +1 faith for every 4 citizens in a city, +1 faith from councils. Tradition.
Celts: Turn 108 Duidism. Pantheon: Curnunnos. +1 culture from camps and plantations, +2 faith from Ceilidh Hall. Tradition.
India: Sometime much earlier Vaishnavism. Pantheon: Goddess of the Home. +1 faith from shrines, +8 faith when a building is constructed scaling with era. Tradition.
My faith gain should have been far stronger than God of Craftsman, God of All Creation, and Ancestor Worship and possibly God of the Open Sky, similar in power to Curnunnos, and likely weaker than God of the Expanse. Not sure about Goddess of the Home, but it may have been stronger than mine.
So what could I have done differently? I was already forced into Stonehenge which I would not have built otherwise. I could have been forced into Tradition for the extra faith. I could have been fortunate to have religious city-states near me and build up an army to bully them (further sacrificing other areas of development, and bad practice for Indonesia who wants to save military supply for Kris Swordsmen). What else am I missing?
The biggest factor seems to be tradition, but even with all this and the possibility of religious city state bullying, I can't account for what I'm seeing in the charts below:
SpoilerImages :
The founding civilizations:
Their faith gain (mine is 4th from top on the far right):
Side note: I do not think the Celt's religion should count against the 7 allowed in the world, since they can always found and do not pull from the common pools of founder and follower options.
Byzantium can always found a religion and can use beliefs in other religions. The Celts have a unique pantheon and neither give nor receive religious pressure.
Are the beliefs first chosen by Byzantium not removed from the common pool? I think they should be; a big part of the religion game is denying your chosen beliefs to your opponents. For this reason, I don't agree.
Well, I'm kind of upset, and I'm posting this because I am starting to think something isn't right regarding early faith gain.
I played Indonesia and I got the Springtime Pantheon (it took many restarts to get it)...What else am I missing?
Though I don't know how religion dynamics work on huge maps or epic speed, I will say that on standard I only go springtime with Tradition, as I do find its very hard to found with. It just takes a long time to get those plantations and herbalists up and running. But of course with Tradition a lot of time I will knock over those plantations with GP buildings, so its not my favorite pantheon.
As far as what happened in your game, the other X factors that may have helped your opponent's found.
1) Religious NW
2) Early Religious CS friend or ally
3) Ancient Ruins
4) Ethiopia and Aztecs often found very quickly.
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