New Beta Version - 1-11 (1/11)

[pineappledan]

Can confirm that the MountedOnly column exists, but the promotions still use range as their determiner first promotion choices.

after the change I tested it with the Inuit and nothing changed (they still had access to Parthian and couldn’t get range)

 

[Gazebo]

Yeah it does; I'll make a pull request tomorrow...I wanna test the Inuit since they have a special unit that might be relevant here.

Should use the IsMounted instead, yep, it's a more robust check.

G

 

[vyyt]

Wow, @Gazebo, will you marry me? Thank you for adding the ability to strafe airplanes based in cities with fighters. I believe this will save the tediousness of air combat and add a huge fun event.

 

[civplayer33]

Should use the IsMounted instead, yep, it's a more robust check.

Yeah I will; IsMounted() wasn't around when Promo Tree was incorporated into VP...I've been waiting for an excuse to update that part so here it is

 

[Asterix Rage]

Air Units When you Air Sweep with a unit and encounter no resistance, the unit will damage all air units within 1 ring of the swept tile for 1/10th of its strength (+ air sweep damage modifiers)

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Finished updating my WIP changelog, added my additional changes and removed changes that were not actually in the current WIP version. My own notes were not 100% up to sync with the patch notes. Fixed now.

     Wonders
        Terracotta - bumped construction speed to 25%, bumped culture on kills to +20 (was +10)
       I loved the new terracotta tbh, this is amazing.
    Civs
     
        Spain
            UA - food is back, bby

           YEAH, BBY
      
    Policies
        Imperialism
            Martial Law - puppet yield reduction now 20% (to 60%) - was 50%
            Exploitation - reduced science on tiles to +1 (was +2)
         Gotta Admit, Imperialism generating more science than rationalism was a bit ridiculous.
    
    Tourism
        GWs returned to 3/3 value
       Make Japan great again, please.
    Units
        Archers/Slingers - now range:1
      I have no idea how would this workout, i'm not optimistic about it tbh.
       
        Pantheon
            Open Sky - added +1 faith to 2 Plains/Grasslands
           I think this is really needed, founding a religion relying on this was really tough, pastures are very food-light tiles and working them in the early game   was not ideal.
            
            Stars and Sky - removed improvement requirement and food
            I still think it's still the most powerful pantheon for the weakest start, the loss of food is a bummer but it's still ok.
            
        Founder
            Bumped city scaling cap on all beliefs except COE to 30 (was 20), follower scaling cap to 300 (was 250)
            Council of Elders - now 20 yield from conversion (was 40, typo in text said 60), capped at 20
             COE is much less explosive now, maybe the cap could have been a little higher ?
           
    Techs
        Reduced late game tech costs a bit
        Forest Chopping now on Mining
        Chop % bonus to production now on Bronze/Iron working (50% at each tech)
            chop will not provide production unless you have these techs

      I still think that fixing forested plantation start could have been done without nerfing jungle plantation that hard.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Can anyone check if the Knowledge through Devotion reformation belief really grants 2 culture to GWs? I've tried it in my current game and it seems to be bugged because my culture hasn't increased at all upon adopting it. Thanks.

 

[Aqinu]

Can anyone check if the Knowledge through Devotion reformation belief really grants 2 culture to GWs? I've tried it in my current game and it seems to be bugged because my culture hasn't increased at all upon adopting it. Thanks.

Seems that it works correctly.

 

[Stalker0]

    Diplo AI improvements

Does this mean the "AIs are switched to eternal war starting in Renaissance" feature of the last version has been adjusted?

 

[Recursive]

Does this mean the "AIs are switched to eternal war starting in Renaissance" feature of the last version has been adjusted?

I'd make a quick adjustment to this, but G may have already, and I wouldn't want the changes to conflict (unless you're referring to my earlier changes @Gazebo? If so, then I will make an adjustment). I'll continue my work on the diplo AI beginning in the next version, as I've mostly resolved my personal issues.

 

[civplayer33]

Can confirm that the MountedOnly column exists, but the promotions still use range as their determiner first promotion choices.

after the change I tested it with the Inuit and nothing changed (they still had access to Parthian and couldn’t get range)

That's odd...in my testing with version 1-11-2 the Unatattik did not have access to Parthian or any other skirmisher-type promos, but he also didn't have access to Range or Indirect Fire, though that may be intended. Note that the promos that are displayed by the promo tree are not the same as the promos that can actually be chosen by the unit...usually they are, of course, but it's different code that manages these two things...my guess is that you only looked at the promo tree without the fix that I'm about to publish and only looked at which promos were displayed without checking what promotions could actually be selected.

There are two questions that come up, however:

1. is it okay that the Range-1 Archer is unable to select Range and Indirect Fire? IMO it is...
2. if so, should the Promotion Tree add a statement to these two promotions confirming that? On the one hand it may seem unnecessary, as Archers are likely to be upgraded to CBows before they get that far with leveling, but in some edge case a player could get an Archer to level 4 and may decide to choose the Accuracy line instead of the Barrage line thinking that he can eventually give the unit Range and then discover that it's not possible after all, which can be frustrating...also, unique Civs like the Inuit have Range-1 Archery Units like the Unatattik, which come later and are in a much better position to get to level 4, which would trigger the described issue.

So, I'll wait for comments from the community / @Gazebo as to whether the Range-1 Archer not having access to Range and Indirect Fire is intended, before I make my pull request.

 

[pineappledan]

Considering I think that having range 1 archers is stupid, no. I don’t think they should have range and indirect fire taken away, because I don’t think any of this is an improvement.

 

[Snipergw]

Honestly, sure. Range and Indirect Fire are very human favored promotions that directly support the meta of shredding AI units from afar in untouchable positions. Go for it imo!

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Honestly, sure. Range and Indirect Fire are very human favored promotions that directly support the meta of shredding AI units from afar in untouchable positions. Go for it imo!

Mark Zuckerberg is gonna be proud of this statement.
Seriously, the human will almost always be better at every aspect of game and the AI's advantage are there to balance that; there is no point in making the game less enjoyable by taking away what humans can use better to their advantage because it's unfair to the AI.

 

[Gazebo]

Considering I think that having range 1 archers is stupid, no. I don’t think they should have range and indirect fire taken away, because I don’t think any of this is an improvement.

You know, when you and other modders make choices I disagree with, I don’t constantly troll every thread and comment on the topic complaining about it. Just saying.

G

 

[JamesNinelives]

in some edge case a player could get an Archer to level 4 and may decide to choose the Accuracy line instead of the Barrage line thinking that he can eventually give the unit Range and then discover that it's not possible after all, which can be frustrating...also, unique Civs like the Inuit have Range-1 Archery Units like the Unatattik, which come later and are in a much better position to get to level 4, which would trigger the described issue.

This seems like a good reason to make sure the code permits it IMO.

 

[DeAnno]

Awkward to force an Archer to take the wrong promo when it can upgrade to a Composite and eventually get it anyways. I say let the superArcher get Range.

 

[civplayer33]

Well I'm gonna need a ruling here...here's the two choices again, so it's (hopefully) clear:

Either (solution 1):

• (new) Archer can't pick Range and Indirect Fire (as it would work now after the upcoming beta)
• the Promo Tree is slightly adjusted so it still classes the Archer as an Infantry Ranged Unit and the Range and Indirect Fire buttons (inside the Promo Tree only) have a sentence mentioning point 1 in their tool tip to avoid the issue I mentioned in my previous post

Or (solution 2):

• Gazebo needs to make the new Archer be able to pick Range and Indirect Fire (this issue lies outside the Promo Tree)
• I will almost certainly have to make some adjustments to the Promo Tree as a response, which may be substantial, depending on how point 1 is implemented (currently the "MinimumRangeRequired" attributes are used to make sure Skirmishers can't pick Range and Indirect Fire, so if this was removed then a whole bunch of other stuff would break but maybe there's other ways to do it)

I prefer solution 1 and have the code changes for that ready and tested. Of course, another solution would be to not lower the Archer's Range...after all, the reason why these other changes are necessary is because Range-1 Infantry Ranged Units are breaking the VP paradigm of Infantry Ranged Units having Range > 1.

Whatever the ultimate solution is, I can't submit any code until this is decided.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Seems that it works correctly.

Thank you!

 

[Gazebo]

Well I'm gonna need a ruling here...here's the two choices again, so it's (hopefully) clear:

Either (solution 1):

• (new) Archer can't pick Range and Indirect Fire (as it would work now after the upcoming beta)
• the Promo Tree is slightly adjusted so it still classes the Archer as an Infantry Ranged Unit and the Range and Indirect Fire buttons (inside the Promo Tree only) have a sentence mentioning point 1 in their tool tip to avoid the issue I mentioned in my previous post

Or (solution 2):

• Gazebo needs to make the new Archer be able to pick Range and Indirect Fire (this issue lies outside the Promo Tree)
• I will almost certainly have to make some adjustments to the Promo Tree as a response, which may be substantial, depending on how point 1 is implemented (currently the "MinimumRangeRequired" attributes are used to make sure Skirmishers can't pick Range and Indirect Fire, so if this was removed then a whole bunch of other stuff would break but maybe there's other ways to do it)

I prefer solution 1 and have the code changes for that ready and tested. Of course, another solution would be to not lower the Archer's Range...after all, the reason why these other changes are necessary is because Range-1 Infantry Ranged Units are breaking the VP paradigm of Infantry Ranged Units having Range > 1.

Whatever the ultimate solution is, I can't submit any code until this is decided.

The archer change is experimental - it may not stay, so I don't want to make any sweeping changes. Let's leave it as-is (no range, no indirect fire) and see how it goes. Even if the promo tree is off for a bit, let's wait.

G