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New Beta Version - 1-11 (1/11)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Jan 12, 2020.

  1. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    Not excited about any of the new changes, and don’t see the need for them. Most of them I’m neutral about, with a few strongly negative, and nothing stands out as a major positive change.

    I don’t mind religious beliefs getting tweaked, but I didn’t see any major concerns about where they were before.

    I strongly disapprove of the unit changes. Archers going to range 1 is terrible. Swordsmen are already quite strong, and don’t need a buff.

    I’m not convinced about the new tribute system. It could turn out to be an improvement, but it looks rather more complicated than the old one, which is a red flag for me. I’d much rather be simplifying things and getting rid of unneeded mechanics than adding more complexity.

    All in all, I’m really dubious about these changes. I love VP, but there seem to be a lot of change for change’s sake recently.
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Some things, like bullying, have been on my list for a long time. Most revolve around making the game more level for AI competitiveness.

    G
     
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  3. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    Looking forward to playing with the new changes and seeing how it feels. Any ETA? Always a struggle when deciding if I should start a new game now or wait for a new beta...
     
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  4. Omen of Peace

    Omen of Peace Prince

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    First off, thanks for the work, G! Lots of great changes.

    + I'll skip things I fully agree with to focus on the neutral/negative (hence the thanks above to balance it out!).

    = The 1-range Archer is worth a try for 1 or 2 betas I think. If the feedback is overwhelmingly negative I'm sure it'll get changed back.

    = New chopping tech placement to be tested as well!

    = Was Rationalism boosted because of Bite's comparison with Imperialism? I hope not - it was quite a specific situation.
    But the small Imperialism nerf is likely deserved.


    - Enhancers: I think the feedback was misinterpreted.
    Iconography is likely stronger in this new version, since we get GPP AND easier spread/reformation.
    Dioceses on the other end is probably overnerfed.

    - I like the "fixed units granted" version of Terracotta (CrazyG's proposal) better than the current/new one, which is very bland.
    I would assume that that version is fairly AI-friendly?

    - Pantheons:
    I don't think Festivals needed to become stronger. What about dropping the gold by 1 to compensate?
    Won't Stars and Sky be much better than Desert Gods now? There tend to be more resources on tundra than in the desert, and it grants culture.

    - The Swordman does indeed seem overbuffed.

    - Were the other buffs to City attack rebalanced as well (e.g. God of War, Tradition)?
     
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  5. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    It says right in his post, "hoping for release some time this week"...
     
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  6. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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  7. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Warlord

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    I'm willing to wait and see on a lot of this, but the one thing I must say is that Iconography was overpowered before and it is probably even more overpowered now. Spread Erosion is really good, and in many ways less of a specific hassle than tying part of the belief to golden ages.
     
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  8. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Finished updating my WIP changelog, added my additional changes and removed changes that were not actually in the current WIP version. My own notes were not 100% up to sync with the patch notes. Fixed now.

    Code:
    Changelog
        Major performance improvements
        Tactical revisions and improvements
        Bugfixes for many github issues
        Improved AI build selection, especially when at war
        Diplo AI improvements
        
    Religion
        Gameplay
            Bullying - reworked system so that method is on a % scale, with anything above 0% allowing tribute which is x%, where x is your bullying value (so if your bully score is 26%, and CS has 100 gold as max bully value, you'll get 26 gold)
                Reworked mechanics under bullying to be more clear, and more focused on global power and empire proximity
                Should see more bullying in the game, but for less yields each time, so it'll be much less swingy
        Buildings
            Lighthouse - +1 supply
            Harbor - +2 supply (removed +10% from pop)
            Seaport - now +20% from pop for supply (was +10%)
            Customs House - gets resource bonuses from Grocer, loses tourism bonus
            Zoo - gains tourism bonus from trade routes from Customs House
            Defense
                Defense and HP from defensive buildings overhauled
                    Less defense total, more HP total
                    Reduced RCS bonus for cities from Castle, Arsenal
        Wonders
            Terracotta - bumped construction speed to 25%, bumped culture on kills to +20 (was +10)
            Red Fort - reduced CS city % bonus to 10%
        Civs
            England
                White Tower- reduced spy effectiveness bonus to 10%, reduced instant yields (halved), reduced CS
                SOTL - loses Logistics, gains Breacher promotion for free - CS/RCS improved to compensate
            Mongolia
                Heavy Tribute surrender mechanic gone - now gains +100% tribute yields when tributing, and ignored PtP/alliance/other friends when calculating bully potential
            Spain
                UA - food is back, bby
            Zulu
                UA - removed % bonus to tribute yields
            Celts
                Epona - reduced yields to 8 (was 10)
                Nuada - boosted city connection gold by 1
                Cernunnos - added +1 f to unimproved jungles and forests
                Lugh- reduced to +2 from specialist (was +3)
                Ogma, bumped scaler to 1:4 (was 1:3)
                Bran - reduced to 25% RCS (was 50%), added +1 happy per city, boosted birth culture to 10 (was 8)
        Policies
            Imperialism
                Martial Law - puppet yield reduction now 20% (to 60%) - was 50%
                Exploitation - reduced science on tiles to +1 (was +2)
            Autocracy
                Tribute - mechanic changed- you now get 25% of tributed yield as culture when you bully (instead of flat amount) - doubles on finisher
            Fealty
                Defense scaler now +1 (was +3)
            Rationalism
                Scaler science now +2% (was +1%)
                Rights of Man - Village gold now +2 (Was +1)
            Statecraft
                Trade Confederacy - now caps at 5 CS (was formerly uncapped)
        Ideologies
            Autocracy
                Total War - 25% easier to bully (was 50%)
                Tyranny - CS influence changes now 10% (was 25%)
        Tourism
            GWs returned to 3/3 value
        Espionage
            Spying on civs without spies themselves is slowed by about 25%.
        Units
            Archers/Slingers - now range:1
                RCS of Slinger now 9 (was 8)
            Reduced RCS of all non-mounted, non-siege ranged units (except archers) slightly
            Warrior CS now 8, Pathfinder CS now 6
            Swordsman CS now 17, Longswordsman now 22, Landsknecht now 19
            Spearmen/Pikemen start with Formation I
                Bumped CS of UU versions of spearmen slightly
                Fixed typo in UU promo for Hoplite
            Air Units
                When you Air Sweep with a unit and encounter no resistance, the unit will damage all air units within 1 ring of the swept tile for 1/10th of its strength (+ air sweep damage modifiers)
        Quests
            Removed global XP from bully quest
        Religion
            Pantheon
                Fertility - now +2 food/faith (was +2/+1)
                Open Sky - added +1 faith to 2 Plains/Grasslands
                Wisdom - now +1s per 10 followers (was 4)
                Festivals - added +1f to palace
                Ancestor Worship - added +1f to council, removed specialist stuff
                Goddess of Beauty - reduced GA/GE to +2 (was +3)
                Stars and Sky - removed improvement requirement and food
                Earth Mother, +1g becomes +1c
            Founder
                Bumped city scaling cap on all beliefs except COE to 30 (was 20), follower scaling cap to 300 (was 250)
                Council of Elders - now 20 yield from conversion (was 40, typo in text said 60), capped at 20
                
            Enhancers
                Universalism - now called 'Abode of Peace' - removed Missionary Erosion, added minimum CS influence of 30 and CS rewards +20%
                Iconography - added 25% Missionary erosion, removed +15% GP during GA, removed -1 policy cost for wonders - renamed Symbolism
                Diocese - renamed 'Sacred Calendar' - removed +10c/f in capital/holy city; now +15% GP during GA,
                Prophecy - added -1 policy cost for wonders
            Follower
                Inspiration - renamed 'Creativity'
            Reformation
                Jesuit - renamed 'Divine Teachings'
                Knowledge Through Devotion - now 'Inspired Works'
        Techs
            Reduced late game tech costs a bit
            Forest Chopping now on Mining
            Chop % bonus to production now on Bronze/Iron working (50% at each tech)
                chop will not provide production unless you have these techs
        Resources
            Silk
                Gold from improvement now +3 (was +2)
                
     
  9. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Air sweep damage compounds based on the # of nearby air units..also air sweep damage modifiers are included.

    G
     
  11. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    So in my next England game, I'll get a free tech every 5 turns instead of 4? Is that enough of a change?
     
  12. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Mostly good changes, though I'm not sure I'll be building Archers anymore and I would have preferred a Cover promo boost (e.g. +33%) rather than a CS boost for Swordsmen and I'm sad that Mongolia loses a part of its flavor.

    Also, weren't people complaining that particularly early City damage was too high and not late game City damage? IIUC, with the RCS boost reduction from Castles and Arsenals the damage in mid-game will be lower, yes, but it might be too low in late game now, no?

    Does Promo Tree need an update now that Archers have 1 range?
     
  13. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives King

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    OK, so it looks like some of the issues brought up have been at least somewhat adressed in this changelog. More changes to the Celtic pantheons, buffs for spears and spear-related UUs. What are people's thoughts on those? Great works go back to +3/+3 which is lovely!

    Thanks very much for communicating with us G. I know it's probably frustrating at times, but it means a lot.

    My main gripes are still range 1 archers and jungle chop being weak. I am still keen to play this version though, given the other changes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  14. Heinz_Guderian

    Heinz_Guderian Chieftain

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    Great additional changes!
     
  15. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    Glad cover is back to 25%. Cover is already so good that I build most of my melee army during classical (swordsmen) as they get it for free and retain it when upgrading.
     
  16. Patee

    Patee Chieftain

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    Is there any place where I can find 12-1 or 12-20 version? Link in threads goes to newest one.
    Thanks.
     
  17. kenneth1221

    kenneth1221 Warlord

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    Curious about what the major performance updates are. It sounds exciting but I'm curious what kind of slowdowns will benefit most.

    I don't have a strong opinion on most of these changes except for the archers. One of the worst parts of my first vanilla civ game was upgrading my crossbows to gatling guns and realizing that I now only had 1 range on them, and I usually never used Gatlings. Personally I suspect that instead of building archers I'll either be waiting for CBows or putting my production towards chariot archers.
     
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  18. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    it was never higher, issue was just the change log being out of sync.
     
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    does it use range as the definition? I thought it used IsMounted
     
  20. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Yeah it does; I'll make a pull request tomorrow...I wanna test the Inuit since they have a special unit that might be relevant here.
     
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