New BETA Version - 4.12.1 (July 10, 2024)

[SuperNoobCamper]

How much more supply do you think you would need? Maybe going a bit over the supply is the play here.

I usually go over the supply anyway since my growth is usually not that great during this particular period and i usually cheese my way out of it by forcing the cities to align the turn all of the extra units produced so the penalties do not hinder my units production.
Walls, Barracks and Teocallis in 6 cities provide around 15~18 flat supply; the supply from pop and difficulty cap is almost nullified by the tech modifiers.
Japan can cheese out some more by poping the GGs and the massive boost from Dojos but honestly playing other civs that do not have supply boost early on or without teocallis on this patch with the current supply handicaps feels aweful.
I feel the tech penalty and supply from population should not be a zero-sum equation that is there to just say both cancel eachother and it's a game of flat supply.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Both Monument and Shrine need to be a must-build for AI, unless they get Stonehenge or external sources.

Shrines not a necessity imo especially for early warmongers, i do not think it should be hard coded.

 

[y10]

I agree that the supply in base Vox Populi is too high. However, I do not think that the per city empire size penalty is a good way to reduce supply. There are already Science, Culture, Tourism, Happiness, and Golden age penalties for acquiring a city. Not to mention that conquering a city from a neighbor can require a very large investment of resources and usually leads to other AI's deciding to punish you. Also, it doesn't really make sense to have a large empire have a similar size army as a small empire, especially when a large empire is going to have a much larger border to defend. It effectively makes expansionist strategies much less viable. I'm not trying come down hard the supply rework (I know it took a lot of thought, time and effort to make the rework), but I think that the the primary reduction in unit supply should come from a reduction in how much supply the total population of the empire gives you.

 

[azum4roll]

Supply should not scale with the area of your kingdom (directly proportional to number of cities), but the perimeter (roughly proportional to the square root of the number of cities). Having an empire size penalty is nowhere as harsh as nerfing your supply cap by an exponent.

We only need a higher base flat supply and maybe base supply from pop and that should be it.

 

[CppMaster]

We only need a higher base flat supply and maybe base supply from pop and that should be it.

That's not related to perimeter, but it does make sense.

Based on perimeter instead of area would sth like 2*numberOfTiles^0.5

 

[andersw]

Does AI get defensive pacts from ancient era now?
I attacked an AI (Russia) to steal a worker and I got insta dow message from another AI (friend with russia).

 

[saamohod]

Does anyone else have flag icons in notifications messed up?

 

[Anarcomu]

Does AI get defensive pacts from ancient era now?
I attacked an AI (Russia) to steal a worker and I got insta dow message from another AI (friend with russia).

If Player 1 ask Player 2 to join war against Player 3, and Player 2 ask for 10 turns, then whenever Player 2 and Player 3 end up at war before those 10 turns, Player 1 joins the war immediately.

Most likeley in your case, "another AI" asked Russia to dow you in 10 turns, and thus joined the war when you dow Russia yourself.

 

[andersw]

If Player 1 ask Player 2 to join war against Player 3, and Player 2 ask for 10 turns, then whenever Player 2 and Player 3 end up at war before those 10 turns, Player 1 joins the war immediately.

Most likeley in your case, "another AI" asked Russia to dow you in 10 turns, and thus joined the war when you dow Russia yourself.

Ahh true, and I get hammered so hard because of early tech deficits

 

[vetox20]

Curious if anyone has noticed that tile recommendations for GP improvements isn't as prevalent as it was in prior versions? Ie: AI suggests where to put towns, manufac, academy etc.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

I think the AI settling logic seems pretty weird, Arabia sending a settler to settle south of me when he has a huge areas to settle to the north and east of him, with good resources too. Of course I killed his settler easily, he sent another wayward settler that ended up settling a city on the jungle tile below the iron northeast of Rome.

Spoiler :

Another thing that is noticeable when I play as rome with 4UC is that warmongering seems to be based on how many cities you take most of all. As Rome you want to eliminate civs and CS to be able to build more fornices, which builds up a lot of warmongering penalty. I usually just make people capitulate, either as soon as possible (sometimes that is just by conquering one city and threatening a second one aswell as being stronger than them) or after taking their most valuable cities that enables a monopoly. That feels so much stronger, because people hate you less and you have forced allies.
I am not sure if this should be changed in some way, but I just think that playing as a "reasonable/moderate" warmonger is a lot stronger than taking everything around you.

 

[axatin]

Does anyone else have flag icons in notifications messed up?

Someone once mentioned something similar on discord. Github issue please.

 

[andersw]

I think the AI settling logic seems pretty weird, Arabia sending a settler to settle south of me when he has a huge areas to settle to the north and east of him, with good resources too. Of course I killed his settler easily, he sent another wayward settler that ended up settling a city on the jungle tile below the iron northeast of Rome.

Spoiler :

View attachment 695821

Another thing that is noticeable when I play as rome with 4UC is that warmongering seems to be based on how many cities you take most of all. As Rome you want to eliminate civs and CS to be able to build more fornices, which builds up a lot of warmongering penalty. I usually just make people capitulate, either as soon as possible (sometimes that is just by conquering one city and threatening a second one aswell as being stronger than them) or after taking their most valuable cities that enables a monopoly. That feels so much stronger, because people hate you less and you have forced allies.
I am not sure if this should be changed in some way, but I just think that playing as a "reasonable/moderate" warmonger is a lot stronger than taking everything around you.

I've seen similar, my guess is that the AI way overvalue natural wonders (the jungle below iron will eventually connect the nw 3 tiles east), and the AI really goes out of their way to settle vulnerable isolated cities for those extra yields.

 

[James Ryle]

I just started with the Netherlands and it's UU reads that the ''Sea Begger is available at Astronomy, earlier than the Corvette'' (which normally can be recruited at Navigation). Looking at the science tree the Sea Begger is at Navigation not Astronomy.
Is it a typo in the description or an error on the science tree?

If it's an error is there a way I could move (mod) Sea Begger to Astronomy?

 

[Trumtram]

A tool tip while loading the mod still includes "East India Company", just fyi.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

I think the AI settling logic seems pretty weird, Arabia sending a settler to settle south of me when he has a huge areas to settle to the north and east of him, with good resources too. Of course I killed his settler easily, he sent another wayward settler that ended up settling a city on the jungle tile below the iron northeast of Rome.

Spoiler :

View attachment 695821

Another thing that is noticeable when I play as rome with 4UC is that warmongering seems to be based on how many cities you take most of all. As Rome you want to eliminate civs and CS to be able to build more fornices, which builds up a lot of warmongering penalty. I usually just make people capitulate, either as soon as possible (sometimes that is just by conquering one city and threatening a second one aswell as being stronger than them) or after taking their most valuable cities that enables a monopoly. That feels so much stronger, because people hate you less and you have forced allies.
I am not sure if this should be changed in some way, but I just think that playing as a "reasonable/moderate" warmonger is a lot stronger than taking everything around you.

Maybe as Rome that's reasonable but for other warmongers like Denmark or Japan, it's better to almost always be at war.

 

[Haldar]

I just started with the Netherlands and it's UU reads that the ''Sea Begger is available at Astronomy, earlier than the Corvette'' (which normally can be recruited at Navigation). Looking at the science tree the Sea Begger is at Navigation not Astronomy.
Is it a typo in the description or an error on the science tree?

If it's an error is there a way I could move (mod) Sea Begger to Astronomy?

This should be error with tooltip, the most recent Congress has voted to move it to Navigation, I guess tooltip has not been updated with it.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Maybe as Rome that's reasonable but for other warmongers like Denmark or Japan, it's better to almost always be at war.

To be at war is not the same as conquering a lot of cities. If you get declared on and just farm the other nations troops for yields etc you wont accrue warmonger points, at least not a significant amount.

 

[hokath]

Yes Sea Beggar is not early anymore. Will fix text error(s).

 

[youngsteve]

I like the way you can change civs mid game now, but found when I was playing that the civ I moved over to was on an easier level. I played Warlord level & took over England who were now Chieften level. Same with other civs.