youngsteve
Prince
I will try to if I see it again. Problem is unless you are looking at other civs modifiers each turn you are very unlikely to see when it occurs. One of these really obscure bugs that are hard to pin down I expect.
New Beta Version - April 14th (4/14)
- Thread starter Gazebo
- Start date
- Status
I will try to if I see it again. Problem is unless you are looking at other civs modifiers each turn you are very unlikely to see when it occurs. One of these really obscure bugs that are hard to pin down I expect.
-60 is reasonable, I agree. Was just wondering because of the huge disparity with Rome's -167.
On the other hand, I have experienced the "you killed civilians during war" modifier as well in a few games and am a bit confused. Does it apply to all civs whenever you kill any country's civilians during war? The wording is different from the "you killed their civilians" modifier.
That's a global penalty which applies if you have -25 with any civ. The global penalty doesn't apply if they hate that civ.
Also worth noting, razing cities also triggers this.
Yeah but it happens even before you've had any wars with them. Have only killed barbs so far as it's very early stages.
\Skodkim
Standard Immortal Communitas_79 as America (playing the Pauper's Challenge!). DV on Turn 374. Note: This is on the hotfix which contains the +5% opera house and the -1 Tourism on great works.
Woot! After being in a real slump lately and losing a lot of games I finally win one. I had a rare scenario with 2 Natural Wonders near by, and a smattering of mountains, so I went for Nature this game as my pantheon (after a Stonehenge rush).
The game started out alright but got dicey very quickly as both Persia and Russia made early pushes. Honestly I thought I was toast but Russia gave me mercy and peaced out (I think too soon, she had the city in the palm of her hand in just a few more turns). I was playing the Pauper's challenge, in which I never take gold from the AI for any reason. Honestly didn't hurt me too bad this game, I went Tithes and statecraft got my afloat on gold. I say that but I did feel a bit hammers starved this game, so less gold was probably a factor in that.
From then on it was mostly recovery from my aggressive early expansion. Unlike my last game happiness and hammers were much harder to come by, and I struggled with it continuously all game long. Eventually Siam and Russia became my friends as we all hated Persia, with continuous wars against them.
I went back to Statecraft this game, and I remember why I don't play artistry very much anymore. With statecraft I have a lot more gold for infrastructure, but its really that +50% CS influence on diplo units (oh and the spy is really good to have that early. It is so much easier to take and hold CS, which translates to a lot of luxs, yields, and just helps tremendously with military augmentation.
It was looking like me for a DV vs Egypt/Brazil for a CV. Ultimately both of them started to falter, and I secured some Sanctions and Travel bans to knock that down. Then it was just climbing the sphere ladder to secure plenty of CS, and then with a little vote control at the end I had plenty of votes to secure the DV. Russia and Babylon got uppity again on me in the late game but my citadels were strong and with a horde of +1 range gatling guns, they were no match.
My notes:
Spoiler :
Woot! After being in a real slump lately and losing a lot of games I finally win one. I had a rare scenario with 2 Natural Wonders near by, and a smattering of mountains, so I went for Nature this game as my pantheon (after a Stonehenge rush).
The game started out alright but got dicey very quickly as both Persia and Russia made early pushes. Honestly I thought I was toast but Russia gave me mercy and peaced out (I think too soon, she had the city in the palm of her hand in just a few more turns). I was playing the Pauper's challenge, in which I never take gold from the AI for any reason. Honestly didn't hurt me too bad this game, I went Tithes and statecraft got my afloat on gold. I say that but I did feel a bit hammers starved this game, so less gold was probably a factor in that.
From then on it was mostly recovery from my aggressive early expansion. Unlike my last game happiness and hammers were much harder to come by, and I struggled with it continuously all game long. Eventually Siam and Russia became my friends as we all hated Persia, with continuous wars against them.
I went back to Statecraft this game, and I remember why I don't play artistry very much anymore. With statecraft I have a lot more gold for infrastructure, but its really that +50% CS influence on diplo units (oh and the spy is really good to have that early. It is so much easier to take and hold CS, which translates to a lot of luxs, yields, and just helps tremendously with military augmentation.
It was looking like me for a DV vs Egypt/Brazil for a CV. Ultimately both of them started to falter, and I secured some Sanctions and Travel bans to knock that down. Then it was just climbing the sphere ladder to secure plenty of CS, and then with a little vote control at the end I had plenty of votes to secure the DV. Russia and Babylon got uppity again on me in the late game but my citadels were strong and with a horde of +1 range gatling guns, they were no match.
My notes:
- America: Ultimately the new changes feel good, its a slight wide nod to America but it doesn't really change up the civ. I think its easy to forget with America just how insanely good their UU is, as it has 4 surges of power. When the unit first comes out, its ability to move through rough is extraordinarily good, and its CS high enough to tank against Tercios. It already comes out as a dominant unit. Then your units start picking up Range faster than anything else, and you get a big surge there. Then with the upgrade to Gatling guns, you now have the dominant unit of that era with +1 range. And finally, with military academies, you can now mass produce +1 Minutemen and convert them to G Guns....fielding an endless horde of +1 range units. Its easy to get to a critical mass at that point where you basically mow through everything in sight.
- Second game in a row that I have seen every AI take Artistry + Rationalism (with one exception, Persia took Artistry + Imperalism). Not enough to make a pattern yet, but its on my watch list.
- So with the recent nerf to the GS I am finding Industry a more appealing tree, especially in game like this where I feel hammer starved and behind on buildings. Its also part that I feel like I have learned the "secret" to Industry....industry is a good tree its just very bottom heavy compared to Imperalism/Rationalism. So you want to plan a culture surge as you are moving into the tree, with Great Writers faith bought if possible, and culture processes considered. Once you hit Industry 3 (always going on the right side), you now start getting some good bang for your buck.
- Towns are still tricky to get early because working merchants is questionable, however, I am finding they feel good in the late game. So if we look to buff the merchant itself, that may be enough at this point.
- I think the AI still likes to sanction too much. Beyond that its definately smarter about the world projects (World's Fair as an example)....those things are no longer a gimme.
- So I finally got to see these new spies that everyone has been talking about, and I agree they are overtuned, tech steals are a bit too quick now. hehe its telling that I played several games before this and couldn't tell what all the fuss was about because I lost spies so often....that just shows how widely variable the system is.
- With Orthodoxy + Church + some Great Prophet play ultimately I still couldn't make the continent go my way. Ding dong, Orthodoxy dominance is dead! Is it over nerfed? I might need to see a few more games but its possible, its such a tricky balance because Orthodoxy doesn't give you anything but spread power....so it needs to be good, but obviously not so good that all other religions just roll over and die.
- I still think the late game city healing is too low. Please let arsenals bump that city healing!
- DV wise, one of the interesting Order vs Freedom differences is the United Nations/World Ideology cut off points. You need to secure Atomic Theory to get United Nations and start the move to DV. Ideally 10 turns later you want to have Nuclear Fission so you can then choose World Ideology and begin Hegemony (and if you don't you'll have to wait another 10 turns until the next vote). That is very difficult normally unless you have a lot of GS in your back pocket....except by using Order's Great Leap Forward. So I find that Order is superior to Freedom for DV if you think you have the votes in hand, or can secure them through a vassal. You can often shave off a full 10 turns from your DV win. However, if the vote is less secure, Freedom generates a lot of extra votes which can be very powerful.
- Tourism Wise, here are the top tourism players and myself (this game I completely ignored tourism, I just got it when I got it). Numbers seem reasonable, without a Travel Ban I think Egypt might have been able to push it, but it wasn't just a slam dunk like previous....so at least for one game I think the tourism numbers were good, I was able to utilize it to get some decent growth benefits for my capital with TRs to my neighbors. You do have to get used to the new curve though....the tourism numbers jump up a lot earlier than they did before so its easy to panic and go "oh god CV is coming!". But the curve doesn't spike like it used to, so getting through that last bit of tourism need still takes work. I once again praise the intuitiveness of the new system.
Spoiler :
Last edited:
SuperNoobCamper
King
Cheers!
Wow
didnt know thatVenetian G merchant doesnt upgrade to be pioneer, colonist. I think I remember reading stg about it, but it seems it hasnt been changed after all. Anyways, its kinda disappointing in the industrial and modern era, when u want to secure some oil and strategics.
Something I keep forgetting to mention. Can we please get the automated workers to stop building a million roads all the time? That started a few versions ago, and its quite annoying. It would be one thing if they started doing it when there was literally nothing else to do, but I often see lots of hills unmined, and grassland unfarmed, while they go off on a road building spree.
SuperNoobCamper
King
People keep reporting massive numbers of barbarians but the barbarians in my game are obnoxiously few that in the first 100 turns or so i only saw three camps (with authority ofc.) spawning in a continent housing 5 civs. 
People keep reporting massive numbers of barbarians but the barbarians in my game are obnoxiously few that in the first 100 turns or so i only saw three camps (with authority ofc.) spawning in a continent housing 5 civs.
For me on communitas_79 the barbs I'm seeing are exactly the same, no more no less.
I think one thing we will need to look at once the dust settles on Tourism are the "Great Work focused civs" like Arabia vs the "Tourism bonus" civs like Brazil.
Arabia and I are fairly close in tech (and both of us went Tradition + Artistry), but notice just how incredibly high their base tourism is compared to mine.
A decent part of that is the fact that Arabia generates lots of Great Works due to its UA (as Egypt does through its UB). Brazil gets flat tourism bonuses, but those aren't as strong in the new paradigm. I have 4 spies currently trying to steal works from Arabia to balance it out, which leads me to the next note. While spying is lightning fast in this version, thieving is sloooooooooowww.
Arabia and I are fairly close in tech (and both of us went Tradition + Artistry), but notice just how incredibly high their base tourism is compared to mine.
Spoiler :
A decent part of that is the fact that Arabia generates lots of Great Works due to its UA (as Egypt does through its UB). Brazil gets flat tourism bonuses, but those aren't as strong in the new paradigm. I have 4 spies currently trying to steal works from Arabia to balance it out, which leads me to the next note. While spying is lightning fast in this version, thieving is sloooooooooowww.
phantomaxl1207
King
They like to use Roads to Citadels and Forts.
Immortal Standard Communitas_79 as Brazil. Lost (Austria DV) on Turn 347.
Decided to give CV another hard test as the little engine that parties....Brazil! I split the continent with Arabia and went to work with my 6 cities. Played a straight as an arrow Tradition + Artistry + Rationalism game.
Later game things got a bit more interesting. So I have no idea where my science was this game, but I was super behind all game long. My spies went into overdrive, I was stealing techs every 5-10 turns for a long time. And yet even with all that, I was 12 techs behind the leader by the end of the game. So go figure, I know Brazil is not a science civ but man, I just couldn't tech this game.
I was bottom score the entire game, but kept a decent army, so the AIs were in general very nice to me. And as Arabia took the top spot, everyone hated on them, so I got lots of deals and coop wars against Arabia to keep them in their place. But it was still a real struggle, I had tradition's lack of hammers and no tech lead, so my military couldn't do much against Arabia, but combined with other civs pitching in we kept them in check, and I finally managed to snag one city from them in the end game.
Ultimately this was one of those games I felt like I was in a different lane from everyone else. I had at least 8 wonders I missed by 4 turns or less...civs that were just one tech up from me just kept sniping them left and right. But I wanted to see if Brazil's raw tourism power could see me through.
As the end game approached the vast majority of the world had followed me into Freedom, with Arabia as Order and Denmark as Autocracy. As hegemony rolled around, I had dual problems. Arabia had hit its influence markers, and was one policy away from all prereqs, so he had to be dealt with. However, Austria had secured hegemony quotas. Ultimately Arabia was hard enough, and I gave it the old college try, but Austria squeaked out the win. That said, I was pretty close myself as you'll see below.... Brazil is still a little sneaky. Honestly their GAP to tourism bonus isn't all that great most of the game, but those last few GAs are BIG, and I caught up quite a bit towards the very very end. I am starting to get the hang of the new CV, I've been concert touring a little too early so far, I'm trying to find the right time to start laying down the concerts vs more great works.
So while I lost I felt pretty good about this game, it was very competitive. My notes:
Spoiler :
Decided to give CV another hard test as the little engine that parties....Brazil! I split the continent with Arabia and went to work with my 6 cities. Played a straight as an arrow Tradition + Artistry + Rationalism game.
Later game things got a bit more interesting. So I have no idea where my science was this game, but I was super behind all game long. My spies went into overdrive, I was stealing techs every 5-10 turns for a long time. And yet even with all that, I was 12 techs behind the leader by the end of the game. So go figure, I know Brazil is not a science civ but man, I just couldn't tech this game.
I was bottom score the entire game, but kept a decent army, so the AIs were in general very nice to me. And as Arabia took the top spot, everyone hated on them, so I got lots of deals and coop wars against Arabia to keep them in their place. But it was still a real struggle, I had tradition's lack of hammers and no tech lead, so my military couldn't do much against Arabia, but combined with other civs pitching in we kept them in check, and I finally managed to snag one city from them in the end game.
Ultimately this was one of those games I felt like I was in a different lane from everyone else. I had at least 8 wonders I missed by 4 turns or less...civs that were just one tech up from me just kept sniping them left and right. But I wanted to see if Brazil's raw tourism power could see me through.
As the end game approached the vast majority of the world had followed me into Freedom, with Arabia as Order and Denmark as Autocracy. As hegemony rolled around, I had dual problems. Arabia had hit its influence markers, and was one policy away from all prereqs, so he had to be dealt with. However, Austria had secured hegemony quotas. Ultimately Arabia was hard enough, and I gave it the old college try, but Austria squeaked out the win. That said, I was pretty close myself as you'll see below.... Brazil is still a little sneaky. Honestly their GAP to tourism bonus isn't all that great most of the game, but those last few GAs are BIG, and I caught up quite a bit towards the very very end. I am starting to get the hang of the new CV, I've been concert touring a little too early so far, I'm trying to find the right time to start laying down the concerts vs more great works.
So while I lost I felt pretty good about this game, it was very competitive. My notes:
- CV: So this game we had a player (with +50% passport bonus) so close to CV as the first hegemony vote came online. That's not bad, ideally we would want both DV and CV fairly competitive. That said, I am not even at Telecom or Airports yet and we are already that close. Its also telling that the last few CV pushes, the influence is coming online before I get the last 3rd tier policy I need....which still might indicate the pace is a bit too quick. Probably the next easiest change is to drop the tourism bonus on the Garden, I don't think that building really needs it.
- Oh also on CV....so as I was periodically checking Arabia's tourism numbers, I never saw him get a bonus for concert tours....so I am wondering if the AI is actually using the mechanic.
- Spying was crazy fast this game, but thieving was just horrific. I had 4 thieves on Arabia for the last quarter of the game and didn't snag a single Great work.
- Brazil: I made some notes in the leader forum, but Brazil often feels like Arabia's little brother. Arabia can do everything Brazil can do, AND still be good at things like science. So I suggested some tweaks.
- An older note, but I do like the decision of Ace Pilot IV vs Air Superiority II on my interceptors. Normally I go APIV because of the extra intercept, but if I think the plane may do some sweeping duty as well I'll go AS II instead, its a nice dynamic.
- While the AI likes to throw out sanctions left and right, it is very skittish about Decolonizations. I didn't have the votes to propose it this game, but a decolonization on Austria was a crucial play to counter her DV and no AI thought to bring it up.
- This game had a much better mix of government types. Mostly Tradition + Artistry / Statecraft this game, but a little bit of Progress and Fealty as well. Most everyone went Freedom after me but we had one order and one autocracy candidate, so everything had some play this game.
- I think DPs last a bit too long, it feels like you have to miss an entire eras worth of warring if you don't want to trigger the wrath of DP allies.
- Cities still need more healing late game!!!
- I am noticing the new supply changes, probably about 10ish supply down from what I'm used to in the late game.
Spoiler :
That I don't mind but that's not what I'm seeing. They are just filling the middle of my territory with them. If it was on my borders I would actually love that, as its good for defense, but I don't need all these extra roads in the middle.
If it's technically possible I would love quick snappy DPs of half length instead. They are so big and all encompassing to the game, way more than a DoF, feels like the sort of thing that isn't bad to get a rethink more often.
Murderologist
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2014
- Messages
- 162
Is the minefield supposed to damage my own ships? For some reason every turn at war or peace my own ships are losing 10 HP per turn in my own territory. Even my cargo ships are losing 10 HP per turn.
- Status
