New Beta Version - April 14th (4/14)

[Jednooki_John]

Just to be clear, espionage is not supposed to be crazy different - mainly just a refactoring of code and a cleanup of the % values to make them accurate.

I'll ask this, though: would there be an interest (and this is not a commitment on my behalf) to modifying the espionage model entirely? My thought is that I might leverage the robust event system I built to actually make 'espionage events' that trigger at certain thresholds of 'espionage power' that a spy makes in a city. Then, the player is presented with opportunities to - say - steal a tech, or steal gold, etc. etc. on an event by event basis.

Does that make sense?

G

@Gazebo I will also add one additional comment that I've started a whole thread upon some time ago. In my opinion primary role of espionage is VISIBILITY. You send spies to understand what your opponent is doing (in real life, let say). To achieve this, I think, it would be great to have added a certain visibility radius to a spy depending on his level. So let say the lowest level spy put in the city sees only whats going inside of the city. The highest maybe reveals 3 tiles radius of the city, you just have a vision there, just like in your own territory. This way if you are planning a war and are unsure about the potential of your opponent, you can actually plan your invasion intelligently - you send your best spies to the border cities and gather a meaningful picture of whats going on - how many units are there, if they engage someone else maybe etc. Maybe if you send them to the cities of your vassal, you get twice of that radius?

I dont know about the mechanics, but maybe if it feels overpowered, this can be turned into a seperate spy activity of sorts? so its either steals/disrupts or provides that "visibility"?

 

[pineappledan]

expectation vs reality is a hell of a thing.

You will get all sorts of positive feedback for the idea of change, but everyone is imagining their own ideal espionage system in their heads, and might not collectively enjoy any alternative much more than the currently implemented one.

Only time will tell if completely reimagining the espionage system would be worth the effort, but in the meantime I would take any positive reactions towards a new espionage system with a HEAPING spoonful of salt

 

[Gazebo]

expectation vs reality is a hell of a thing.

You will get all sorts of positive feedback for the idea of change, but everyone is imagining their own ideal espionage system in their heads, and might not collectively enjoy any alternative much more than the currently implemented one.

Only time will tell if completely reimagining the espionage system would be worth the effort, but in the meantime I would take any positive reactions towards a new espionage system with a HEAPING spoonful of salt

I'm not talking about revamping the whole thing, no way. Just fixing some of the more random/obscure things.

G

 

[Stalker0]

I'm not talking about revamping the whole thing, no way. Just fixing some of the more random/obscure things.

G

Forgive us, but when you talk about literally converting spies into spy points and events....well that sounds like a total revamp to me

 

[Stalker0]

So the new Orthodoxy is a good bit weaker than the previous version. Even with churches and Orthodoxy against Synagogues (neither side has fealty), ultimately the enemy was able to convert twice the number of cities as I have.

Spoiler :

 

[Gazebo]

Forgive us, but when you talk about literally converting spies into spy points and events....well that sounds like a total revamp to me

Those were just theories, not set in stone.

G

 

[glider1]

how do you get cool little names of areas like that? or did you add those yourself in paint or something?

Map Labels mod

I don't think it is on steam

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Arabia Standard size Epic Speed 8 civs 16 No events Ruins On No tech trading with 4th UC.
Cultural Victory at turn 417 year 1814.

Spoiler :

tried tradition in a previous game using the same settings but got destroyed so early by two authority civs (thanks everyone for the advice in strategy thread) so i Went back to what i'm good at doing i.e. good ol' Authority > Artistry > Imperialism > Autocracy which was way easie with the recent changes to ; In fact i was influential on everyone except Ethiopia which eventually succumbed to my influence before the modern era and as always the limiting factor in how fast i can win is the number of social policies required.
Here is an unnecessary wall of text about stuff.

• I'm still convinced that is over tuned big time if you pursue it, the latest changes made early game more noticeable without tuning down late game which resulted in a better looking curve that's not too steep but the overall amount of is just more that i did not really need to build Broadcast towers or wait till radio tech or even use GM for concerts....... I have not even extracted enough artifacts this game compared to the usual 20+ i usually dig up.
• Are the theming bonuses for wonders particularly Uffizi and Sistine Chapel stronger now ? It's not game breaking or anything but i really don't think it's necessary voluntary Vassals were not a thing in this match till the industrial era when Ethiopia (4th place in score) submitted to Sweden (3rd place); I like It that way.
• One bizarre moment when i was at war with Sweden that had an Open borders agreement which ended during the war so instead of teleporting the Swedish troops to their lands they got teleported to my lands behind my lines wrecking havoc among civilians
• Espionage modifiers could really use some down tuning, Every tech i researched got stolen in about 10 turns regardless of the presence of a counter spy, the catch up rate by civs that hated me was faster than if i was trading them with friends.
• this is pretty much the first time i see the AI refuse World Fair .... not sure how to feel about it but maybe they refused it because i was the one that proposed It and everyone agreed to hate me for winning?
• New towns are ok early but really nice after industrial and Railroad (maybe better than manufactory?) but honestly the current merchant slot is still so weak that i don't think i'm going to work it even for a good tile.
  
• Even though i went for CV i Annexed 5 out of 9 conquered cities, I can't say i like the new puppet building restrictions at all.
• Great Engineers instant yields are really weak even with 6 manufactories and +30 city

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

So what is the current version? "Vox Populi (4-16).exe" or is there a newer bugfix dll on Github?

Did anyone answer this?

 

[Kim Dong Un]

barbarians are straight up crazy this patch

The barb pantheon is calling...

 

[skodkim]

Did anyone answer this?

There's s newer dll here
https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/7737
\Skodkim

 

[pineappledan]

Well, between being bum-rushed by 8 barbarian warriors at turn 30 and literally having to select heal on every unit every turn, I think I’m gonna wait for a new version.

this isn’t “literally unplayable”, but I’m definitely not having fun.

 

[skodkim]

Ye

Well, between being bum-rushed by 8 barbarian warriors at turn 30 and literally having to select heal on every unit every turn, I think I’m gonna wait for a new version.

this isn’t “literally unplayable”, but I’m definitely not having fun.

Yeah, Github does seem to have a lot of unreleased fixes. Enjoying it though

\Skodkim

 

[DeAnno]

The thing about the barbs this patch is they are super duper inconsistent. Sometimes they will come and break your face open, sometimes they will be relatively chill and you'll go about your business. Effectively it's a huge buff to Authority and a nerf to Progress though.

 

[Stalker0]

The thing about the barbs this patch is they are super duper inconsistent. Sometimes they will come and break your face open, sometimes they will be relatively chill and you'll go about your business. Effectively it's a huge buff to Authority and a nerf to Progress though.

hehe Try playing communitas_79 on low sea, its always a barb party on those settings.

 

[skodkim]

Something related to barbs was changed in the dll found at github. Doing know what was I was assuming for the minor civ limit fix in the dll.

\Skodkim

 

[General_Drax]

The thing about the barbs this patch is they are super duper inconsistent. Sometimes they will come and break your face open, sometimes they will be relatively chill and you'll go about your business. Effectively it's a huge buff to Authority and a nerf to Progress though.

Wait what ? is someone still playing Progress ? Tried and failed miserably so many times that even with Brazil i'll go Authority or Tradition opener then Authority. AIs will dogpile on you no matter how you play so war is always a real possibility in every game.

Anyway with Raging Barbs on this patch you should delay settlers a bit for some units or they simply lock you into your capital.

 

[CrazyG]

Great Engineers instant yields are really weak even with 6 manufactories and +30 city

I think (not 100% sure) that only manufactories you plant will boost the engineer. I'm guessing you conquered some of those 6?

 

[Recursive]

Is the "fought together against a common foe" modifier supposed to start at +100? Or is this due to planned co-op wars?

Also, regarding Wonder Competition; is -167 considered a normal value? Seems a bit too much tbh. I'm at late medieval era with 8 wonders, 3 other civs have somewhere around -60 opinion due to wonders, and Rome has -167

It's because he has very high Wonder Competitiveness.

-60 if you have 8 wonders in Medieval seems okay to me.

Have a weird negative Diplo modifier with another Civ saying "You killed or captured their civilian!". Problem is... I didn't! Only just started the game and we haven't been to war or anything.

Has anyone else seen this? It may be due to mod compatibility issues (which is why i ask here in stead of posting a bug report on Github) even though I can't really see which of my other mods would touch something like this.

\Skodkim

I have seen that, from a civ I have never been at war with, & was racking my brains how & concluded I must have killed one in accident in a war. Now I am not sure. Only mod I have beside main ones is infoaddict.

Can't reproduce. Need a save one turn before the modifier is applied.

 

[Stalker0]

As a datapoint, here is what my volunteer vassal charged me for its hegemony vote (which will likely give me the win).

Spoiler :

Its a decent chunk, a solid GPT requirement. Probably still a bit too light but I think we are in the ballpark. I am curious about other opinions, is this a reasonable amount to charge for hegemony votes?