As Attila, I fought a war with England from Classical til' Renaissance (mostly on land) without conquering a single neighboring city. And thats with the Huns UA and UU online. I can't pinpoint what is wrong exactly, though.
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New Beta Version - April 14th (4/14)
- Thread starter Gazebo
- Start date
- Status
I would like it a lot if tech steals were just more consistent in time and perhaps just controlled by % chance of success, even better if you could get an estimate of that by looking at the city on the spy screen. Spying feels really bad now overall because it's so mysterious what will happen if you send your spy anywhere but a City State, either a steal in 6 turns or 6000.
tu_79
Deity
The easy fix to spies would be to reduce the stolen amount of yields based on difficulty.
Spies being able to steal more depending on the difference of techs is supposed to help players that lag behind, not players that play in higher difficulties.
Spies being able to steal more depending on the difference of techs is supposed to help players that lag behind, not players that play in higher difficulties.
youngsteve
King
At the moment it is the same thing. There is also no advantage in gaining massive amounts of science, unless you want an early wonder spree, if someone can just take the tech all the time & catch up. Also, there is no real downside diplomatically, except with the upset provider of tech, I would have thought spy could damage relations for the perpetrators with other civs, but nothing seems to happen.
We really need to look at gold income in the late game. This is me with 6 cities on gold process, cathedrals, and a stock exchange in every city. I'm sanctioned and still in a deficit, only scrapping by on my spy money from the CIA.
TR income should not be this critical to maintaining basic economy, my unit supply isn't even all that high.
Spoiler :
TR income should not be this critical to maintaining basic economy, my unit supply isn't even all that high.
Try deleting a couple workers (that isn't meant to address your balance concern, just a small tip that can help).
What's the gold breakdown of your cities?
For me there is always this weird spot during modern+atomic era where you're very vulnerable to sanctions, until you get to the wind energy and hydroplant in information, where gold stops becoming an issue altogether.
Once you're sanctionned you have to either cut back on roads, workers, and have something that can provide +1 gold on tiles+golden ages (like +1 gold from industrialism on mines) and really spam that tile, it's less noticeable on coastal areas as they have innate +1 gold on sea tiles, but on land heavy starts you have less of those innate +1 gold tiles this sanction is really felt (due to the building maintenance increase cost and how profitable trade routes are in later eras). Alternatively, things that cut back on maintenance (best one is the buildings maintenance reduction in order) really help in the lategame as maintenance is a big drain on your finances, and units are capped by supply so they are usually less of a drain.
In your screenshot you could probably change some railroads back to roads to cut back on costs, but I feel your pain. This was especially noticeable if you pupeted a lot, as puppets generated much more maintenance than income due to their penalties.
Once you're sanctionned you have to either cut back on roads, workers, and have something that can provide +1 gold on tiles+golden ages (like +1 gold from industrialism on mines) and really spam that tile, it's less noticeable on coastal areas as they have innate +1 gold on sea tiles, but on land heavy starts you have less of those innate +1 gold tiles this sanction is really felt (due to the building maintenance increase cost and how profitable trade routes are in later eras). Alternatively, things that cut back on maintenance (best one is the buildings maintenance reduction in order) really help in the lategame as maintenance is a big drain on your finances, and units are capped by supply so they are usually less of a drain.
In your screenshot you could probably change some railroads back to roads to cut back on costs, but I feel your pain. This was especially noticeable if you pupeted a lot, as puppets generated much more maintenance than income due to their penalties.
I mean, your supply is at 50 which is pretty high and the implication is that you're running ITRs.
Gold from AI is a massive aspect of gameplay right now, with wide you can be easily getting hundreds of gold from it. It's sanctions that are causing you trouble.
Gold from AI is a massive aspect of gameplay right now, with wide you can be easily getting hundreds of gold from it. It's sanctions that are causing you trouble.
LifeOfBrian
King
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2019
- Messages
- 757
Unless I'm playing as a civ with an early UU, my warring on Deity always follows the same pattern: Fight defensively, which leads to loads of AI units killed and loads of promotions for my (mostly ranged&siege) units. I focus on getting my siege units the range promotion, my ranged units the logistics promotions, my melee units the drill/stalwart combo. I rush Gunpowder and Metallurgy and once I've upgraded my units, I can start making progress on the offensive with my infantry followed by logistics ranged units and range siege units, and usually after taking a city or two I'll get the upgrade to Fusilliers and Field guns, allowing me to conquer even more. It also helps that I usually select one AI with whom I'll try to stay in early (defensive!) wars for a long time, making sure I can farm promotions and kills (and yields from those), because that means that AI is being hampered in development and will be ripe for the taking when I get Gunpowder/Metallurgy.
Is the "fought together against a common foe" modifier supposed to start at +100? Or is this due to planned co-op wars?
Also, regarding Wonder Competition; is -167 considered a normal value? Seems a bit too much tbh. I'm at late medieval era with 8 wonders, 3 other civs have somewhere around -60 opinion due to wonders, and Rome has -167
Also, regarding Wonder Competition; is -167 considered a normal value? Seems a bit too much tbh. I'm at late medieval era with 8 wonders, 3 other civs have somewhere around -60 opinion due to wonders, and Rome has -167
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Have a weird negative Diplo modifier with another Civ saying "You killed or captured their civilian!". Problem is... I didn't! Only just started the game and we haven't been to war or anything.
Has anyone else seen this? It may be due to mod compatibility issues (which is why i ask here in stead of posting a bug report on Github) even though I can't really see which of my other mods would touch something like this.
\Skodkim
Has anyone else seen this? It may be due to mod compatibility issues (which is why i ask here in stead of posting a bug report on Github) even though I can't really see which of my other mods would touch something like this.
\Skodkim
youngsteve
King
I have seen that, from a civ I have never been at war with, & was racking my brains how & concluded I must have killed one in accident in a war. Now I am not sure. Only mod I have beside main ones is infoaddict.
Hmm, so its not a mod conflict (run Infoaddict too but that should not be it). If anyone has a savegame with the bug it would be nice with a bug report. Unfortunately I can't upload my own due to the other mods (run like 51 other mods where mod compatibility has been observed for years so...
)\Skodkim
youngsteve
King
Hmm, so its not a mod conflict (run Infoaddict too but that should not be it). If anyone has a savegame with the bug it would be nice with a bug report. Unfortunately I can't upload my own due to the other mods (run like 51 other mods where mod compatibility has been observed for years so...
\Skodkim
I would help but cannot remember when or who had it. I will look out for it though, as cannot believe this is a one of.
Posted a bug report on Github and we'll se if they can do anything without a savegame. Included logs.
\Skodkim
Crippling national debt and making money solely from the CIA? That sounds (tinfoil hat on) very realistic to me.
Yeah I generally cut my worker pool to 3-4 workers late game after railroads, to get a siege crew and repair pillages. Here is the breakdown you wanted, I added another city to the gold process so I'm in the black for now.
Update: So I tried to show the screenshot after I blew through that 4k gold (from the CIA...er...KGB) on unit upgrades in the same turn, as obviously having 4k in a screenshot complaining about money seems weird, but the game keeps crashing on me when I try.
So ignore the 4k, that money is literally gone and I still have plenty of unit upgrades to go (doing the ballistics round so lots of g guns to upgrade)
Other notes here:
- All cities have gold buildings up and including stock exchange. I also have cathedrals
- I do have arsenals in most of my cities, as I've been focusing my army against Monty, but I'm still a bit worried about a Korean backstab. No military bases though.
- I have no CS allies and a lot of friends, so in theory good chancery gold income.
- I do have Peace, Land, Bread so I have the 20% building maintenance reduction.
Spoiler :
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usadefcon1
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2016
- Messages
- 595
That's just like the real life economy!
If it was, we would just ignore the debt, and still be able to buy units, upgrade units, and invest in infrastructure anyway
Though somewhat in jest, Civ economy is a very very VERY simplistic model of real world economy that we have to be careful to use it as a basis. Its true what I said before, countries have all sorts of ways to keep spending for "essential things" even with large debts, you don't have the equivalent in Civ.Standard Immortal Communitas_79 as America. Defeated by Austria's DV on Turn 422.
NOTE: This is the original version, not the hotfix that came in (aka my tourism numbers are before the slight nerf).
This was a fun and competitive game overall. I started with a beautiful Stars and Sky opener, and went for the Stonehenge + Pyramid double rush. But a snag! While I got Stonehenge with ease, I actually lost the Pyramids with 3 turns to spare. So that put me a little bit behind, and I shifted to recover.
I managed a 6 city start, compressed to the south against Korea and Aztecs. Of course I expected an Aztec assault, so prepared defenses with the desire to snag a few Aztec cities to get my numbers were I wanted them to be. This game I had hammers out of my butt, with the power of the klondike and the hammer belief (which in hindsight was probably not the right choice) I built things so quickly I actually ran farming in my capital for a while just for something to do! Happiness was an absolute breeze this game, I had 100% a good portion of the time until late game when ideological pressure kicked in.
I wanted to try another CV as America, so Progress + Artistry. Because of my insane production, I went Rationalism to finally get some more buildings on the pile to work on, and then shifted to Order to flex its tourism power and see where they would take me.
This was a funny collection of "art nerds" in this game. Lots of Artistry + Rationalism
All game was a fight between the Aztecs and I. Good old Monty can always be counted on to declare on you with just a little prodding, so my defensive pact with Korea bared a lot of fruit, and it was 2 on 1 for most of it. Korea and I became solid allies all game, and slowly and steadily pushed Monty back and managed to take 3 cities overall, which rounded me out nicely. For all of my whining in another thread about not being able to make progress against Immortal AIs in war, I find very judicious uses of citadels to be my key this game. I was ruthless with siegecraft, putting roads on every bit of border, every fort I could make I built, and as many citadels as I had GGs to use.
Things were looking in the drivers seat, and as Turn ~340 rolled around, with just a little bit of Siam influence to go, I thought I was going to have myself a nice quick CV victory. But....then Austria's numbers started to drop a little....and then dropped out of influential! And suddenly we have a problem Will Robinson. I was able to push Siam but didn't have a musician to push Austria over. I rushed to Refrigeration, wanted to see if my new and improved Stadium would help me with that nice +5k tourism to all civs (spoiler: it didn't).
So I pushed towards Telecom and tried to get whatever musicians I could to finish the job. However, my momentum started to slide away from me. Austria's dominance of the WC was felt, as I was sanctioned, and a travel ban placed. Ultimately I got close again as Telecom came online and I got the CN tower.
But.... after missing the first hegemony vote, Austria had 45 votes going into the second. I took out one of her CS allies, which dropped her vote by ....1? (I guess she got a vote through something else), but the hegemony vote required also dropped from 44 to 43....so she still had it. No one else in the world wanted to tango with her to stop the vote, and so a DV it was.
I blame myself ultimately. Still learning the ins and outs of the new CV system so I feel confident I could have been more optimal there, and I didn't recognize Austria's threat early enough, should have warred with her sooner or tried some diplomatic pressure through her neighbors. So no shenegians, pure user error
WC Notes
NOTE: This is the original version, not the hotfix that came in (aka my tourism numbers are before the slight nerf).
Spoiler :
This was a fun and competitive game overall. I started with a beautiful Stars and Sky opener, and went for the Stonehenge + Pyramid double rush. But a snag! While I got Stonehenge with ease, I actually lost the Pyramids with 3 turns to spare. So that put me a little bit behind, and I shifted to recover.
I managed a 6 city start, compressed to the south against Korea and Aztecs. Of course I expected an Aztec assault, so prepared defenses with the desire to snag a few Aztec cities to get my numbers were I wanted them to be. This game I had hammers out of my butt, with the power of the klondike and the hammer belief (which in hindsight was probably not the right choice) I built things so quickly I actually ran farming in my capital for a while just for something to do! Happiness was an absolute breeze this game, I had 100% a good portion of the time until late game when ideological pressure kicked in.
I wanted to try another CV as America, so Progress + Artistry. Because of my insane production, I went Rationalism to finally get some more buildings on the pile to work on, and then shifted to Order to flex its tourism power and see where they would take me.
This was a funny collection of "art nerds" in this game. Lots of Artistry + Rationalism
All game was a fight between the Aztecs and I. Good old Monty can always be counted on to declare on you with just a little prodding, so my defensive pact with Korea bared a lot of fruit, and it was 2 on 1 for most of it. Korea and I became solid allies all game, and slowly and steadily pushed Monty back and managed to take 3 cities overall, which rounded me out nicely. For all of my whining in another thread about not being able to make progress against Immortal AIs in war, I find very judicious uses of citadels to be my key this game. I was ruthless with siegecraft, putting roads on every bit of border, every fort I could make I built, and as many citadels as I had GGs to use.
Things were looking in the drivers seat, and as Turn ~340 rolled around, with just a little bit of Siam influence to go, I thought I was going to have myself a nice quick CV victory. But....then Austria's numbers started to drop a little....and then dropped out of influential! And suddenly we have a problem Will Robinson. I was able to push Siam but didn't have a musician to push Austria over. I rushed to Refrigeration, wanted to see if my new and improved Stadium would help me with that nice +5k tourism to all civs (spoiler: it didn't).
So I pushed towards Telecom and tried to get whatever musicians I could to finish the job. However, my momentum started to slide away from me. Austria's dominance of the WC was felt, as I was sanctioned, and a travel ban placed. Ultimately I got close again as Telecom came online and I got the CN tower.
But.... after missing the first hegemony vote, Austria had 45 votes going into the second. I took out one of her CS allies, which dropped her vote by ....1? (I guess she got a vote through something else), but the hegemony vote required also dropped from 44 to 43....so she still had it. No one else in the world wanted to tango with her to stop the vote, and so a DV it was.
I blame myself ultimately. Still learning the ins and outs of the new CV system so I feel confident I could have been more optimal there, and I didn't recognize Austria's threat early enough, should have warred with her sooner or tried some diplomatic pressure through her neighbors. So no shenegians, pure user error
WC Notes
- I saw the AI shoot down both World's Fair, and International Games....which I think is definately because of the new logic (those were gimmes before). IG makes complete sense to ward off a tourism play, but World's Fair....on the one hand I was production leader at that point so giving me the top spot is never ideal. On the other, ultimately the +33% more culture should actually hurt tourism play I would imagine, so it was probably still worth doing that.
- Seeing World Religion pop up a bit more again, but not yet all the time so I think its ok.
- I never see ban luxuries anymore, I still see a LOT of sanctions.
- Though I didn't get my CV I still think the nerf in the hotfix was warranted. It seems really easy to mass tourism even before the big tourism hammers of Telecom and later.
- America: This is my 3rd run through with the civ and the change is neat, but honestly not that dramatic all things considered. There's a little bit of settling strategy, and I do think it helps any Pioneer settles which is nice, but ultimately America hasn't really changed that much, whether that is good or not of course depends on your thoughts on old america.
- I did not understand the Police Station change in the notes, when I read it in game I finally understood that it was a full -1 unhappy for all 4 categories (I thought it was a % reductor in my head). So that's a bit better, I did consider building one police station in a satelitte to try the happiness reductor, but it was almost double the cost of a public works building (and I had already built a public works there previously)....so I still question if the public works was not better bang for the buck. I do think the Police station should reduce urbanization as well, that's often the only "real unhappiness" I'm still dealing with at that point in the game.
- In terms of puppets, honestly I kind of liked them in this game. My medieval conquests I annexed. My industrial ones I puppeted, and it was nice to see the puppet just go "Walls, Castles, Arsenal and.....make gold". Realistically at this point the infrastructure is probably a waste of time anyway.
- Towns, a little bit better but still nothing amazing. I certainly never "push" for them like I do other GP, though with the gold problems I mentioned maybe I need to push on them a little more. I would argue that late game towns are probably better than late game manufactories.
- Gold as I mentioned above, just gets really scarce around Industrial. Now normally I don't build a lot of stock exchanges so there is always that excuse, but this game I actually did build them, and still had trouble.
- Not really feeling the spy changes so far, just not seeing much difference in my games so far.
- Still really liking the new CV paradigm, still so much more intuitive. Though I messed up, I feel like I know exactly when I messed up, and how I could have optimized my tourism better, the mechanics were very clear to me.
- People have argued that the AI spam citadels too much instead of keeping a few GGs...but honestly I find in my own play the more citadels the better. An extra citadel, even if its not in the most ideal place, still puts a lot of pressure on the AI that a meer +15% CS doesn't. More and more I convert all of my GGs into citadels, unless I have a LOT of them or imperalism, as a +25% CS is a little stronger and more useful.
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